Is DU Ammunition Self Defeating?

[Gremlin29]

They are most likely only concerned with breathing in any dust particles, I have to agree with you that a SCBA should be utilized, a Scott pack cylinder with 30 minute air supply made out of fiberglass are not that uncomfortable or cumbersome, I have trained emergency responders in their use for confined space emergency rescue and Hazmat requirements. All DU projectile performance testing conducted by U.S defense contractors does have the requirement to used rubber suites, boots, gloves and SCBA

I was thinking supplied air (not practical to drag around for quick samples as in the photos) or SCBA because the CFR's show the threshold limit of .2 mg/m3 for Uranium, not sure how they are getting away with not wearing SCBA and I'm actually shocked if their is a DU hazard there.

 

[Marc 1]

This was a single report, so perhaps it would be wise to dump plastic darts until I can find corroboration. But this does leave the issue of fragmentation bombs, air-fuel bombs and the like. Should this become a new thread?

No, here would be fine. I agree mate and wholeheartedly support your campaign, I've even given it a name: Justice On Killing Entities (or JOKE).

From hereon JOKE stands for the following:

1. Bullets from now on are banned, soldiers will simply call out "Bang!" - enemy's should lie down and say they are dead if considered hit. Machine gunners can yell "Buckets of bullets!". Of course they are not permitted to yell any more buckets of bullets than the sustained firing rate of their weapon. Snipers due to the much longer ranges involved are permitted to either use a loudhailer to yell "Bang" or if using a larger caliber, longer ranged weapon will be permitted to call or text their target on their mobile with the word Bang.

2. Despite repeated attempts to perfect a technique whereby pilots could open their canopies in flight and lean out and yell "Bomb - Big Bang!", it has been decided that bombloads can comprise down feathers in an uncompressed form. Apologies to any combatants that have allergies to ducks. If this does effect you please let your nearest UN observer know and we will not drop any bombs, but instead debate the effectiveness of the proposed weapon in the UN security council. Answers may well take months on the effectiveness of the proposed weapon and combat must pause during this period, but we can't have people sneezing can we.

3. Hand grenades will from now on be made from Bocconcini (low fat and low salt of course) etc...

Tony, I don't know what or why you seem to have this agenda or where you are getting your information from (anecdotes? weird websites?), but you appear to be being fed rubbish. Bombs with plastic darts? I can imagine flechette rounds ( hundreds of steel or tungsten darts) being used by tanks in an antipersonnel role but plastic darts from bombs? Can you support any of these claims with sources?

Here's something that will further alarm you - the standard hand grenade is a fragmentation grenade - in the case of the M26 I was trained to use it has a segmented steel wire coiled around the inside of the casing - this is designed to fragment into thousands of pieces to ruin your enemy's day.

Here's a further newsflash; war is a nasty grisly business that is about as inhuman as it gets. The weapons are designed to main, kill and generally ruin people. These are facts. If you have to have war you fight to win and employ what you need to to win the conflict, if you side wins the conflict as history has shown, you will probably not be called to answer war crimes charges. War is not a place for sportsmanship, you use whatever weapons you have at your disposal to minimise your own casualties whilst maximising those of your enemy. Making wars 'safe' is not going to happen.

The best way to minimise casualties is not to have the war at all.

 

[eckherl]

What I really was wondering was whether you had an article or a report of somekind that mentioned this, that I could read. I guess not. Thanks anyways.

I know that the Georgians were using 3BM-42, not the M versions, I cannot get any information on what exactually the Russians were using for KE projectiles even though 125mm Du and advanced Tungsten rounds are kept in storage for major conflict and they were not used in this conflict. Also I know Ukraine sold Georgia over 400 125mm Guided projectiles designation name Kombat that I am trying like crazy to find out if any of them were used and what type of performance did they experience with them, maybe some of your Russian comrades can shed some light on both questions mentioned.

Thanks

 

[Feanor]

Found this little piece on another forum. Seems correct.

Статья - бред собачий. Ракета "Комбат" является функциональным аналогом ракеты 9М112 "Кобра" с установкой новой тандемной КБЧ, новой схемы наведения, и нового стыковочного узла позволяющего производить стыковку на линии досылания, что позволяет использовать ее в АЗ танка Т-72. Конструкция КБЧ интереса не представляет, особых отличий от КБЧ других советских и российских ПТУР в плане эффективности не имеет

I.e. the Kombat ATGM is hardly anything terribly new or capable. It's a barrel-fired ATGM for the 125mm calibre.

 

[eckherl]

Found this little piece on another forum. Seems correct.



I.e. the Kombat ATGM is hardly anything terribly new or capable. It's a barrel-fired ATGM for the 125mm calibre.

Yes, I do realize that it has been around for quite some time, but actual combat performance information is lacking on this type of projectile, especially when used against armor.

 

[Feanor]

It's based on either the 9M112 Kobra or the 9K119M Refleks, with a new guidance system (SACLOS) and a new warhead. Found claims for penetration of 850-1000mm RHA (depending on who you ask I suppose) but none from terribly reliable sources.

 

[eckherl]

Yes, I do realize that it has been around for quite some time, but actual combat performance information is lacking on this type of projectile, especially when used against armor.

@Future tank or Extern,

Georgian Conflict

Do either of you have some Russian or Ukrainian sources that could assist me with actual combat performance of Ukrainian Kombat guided projectile and as a added bonus could you find out what Russian KE tank round was carried for 125mm and 115mm.

Thanks

 

[Feanor]

This may be the first time the Kombat was actually used in combat.

 

[eckherl]

This may be the first time the Kombat was actually used in combat.

Yes, this is why I am interested in the performance of this projectile if they were even used.