Time for US forces to leave Europe, a Unified EU Military to take their place

[swerve]

You cannot united Europe, europe is now in relative peace but the EU is a bureacratic monstousity that takes away a country's souvereignity and replace it with undemocratic rule by foreign chaps in Belgium, the people don't want that and resistance against the EU grows because of that.....

The chief decision-making body of the EU is the Council of Ministers, which consists of a representative from each member government. They're elected - unless a member state allows appointed government ministers - because they are the relevant government ministers from each state. For top-level decisions, the heads of government meet. For agricultural policy, the agriculture ministers meet. Whichever set of ministers meets is, for the time being, the Council. The bureaucracy does what the Council tells it to.

The body which executes those decisions, the EU Commission, is appointed, but it is subject to some democratic oversight, by the EU Parliament. If you want someone to blame for the weakness of that body, blame the governments you (& the rest of us) have elected. They've steadfastly refused to allow the EU Parliament more power, or any other increase in democracy within the running of the EU, because they want to keep power in their own hands.

I get sick of people blaming the EU, as a body, for the actions of its member states & their governments. The member governments appoint the Commissioners, who run the EU. The member governments, through the Council, set the policies the Commission executes. And member governments firmly stamp on any proposed increase in democracy.

 

[IPA35]

I think souvereignity has a high value, and we should not pay money to the EU so they can fund the poor eastern-european states.
We paid 37 billion and recieved 13 billion.
Bulgaria paid like 3 Billion and recieved something like 20 billion.

This madness must stop.

EU must become purely economical again (and Visa) and CERTAINLY no UNITED military.
We could however make an emergency high-command structure.
Cheaper, less souvereignity stealing, less work and with more support from the population.

And the EU should not deside what nations buy (no compulsory standardisation).

 

[kato]

Training, but why in Germany?!

Dunno about Spangdahlem's A-10 and F-16, but i know that e.g. the Helicopter Squadron in Mannheim was used to familiarize incoming pilots from the US with European terrain and flight rules back during the Kosovo War.

 

[kato]

They've steadfastly refused to allow the EU Parliament more power, or any other increase in democracy within the running of the EU, because they want to keep power in their own hands.

The EU parliamentary elections are always a hoot. For some reason, the results in Germany always turn out far more conservative/right-wing than in any national elections, and always has an almost doubled proportion for the Greens. Mostly has to do with the fact that for whatever reason, the EU elections in Germany are held concurrently with the local district elections. And of course with the fact that with about 20 out of the 31 parties approved for the next election in June even i have no idea what they're about.

 

[ASFC]

I know this is off-topic, but the problem with the EU is not the politicians (who can be replaced at the next election) but with the Commission, and the fact that is a bloated, red tape infected mess-when exactly was the last time that its books passed an audit?

Frankly, the EU needs to sort itself out before going down the road of getting itself n common Defence policy or Foreign policy, let alone an Army.

 

[swerve]

And who appoints the Commissioners, and makes the rules under which they operate? National governments . . . i.e. politicians. BTW, have you noticed who the Commissioners are? Some are competent, but many are party hacks, pensioned off into well-paid jobs to get them out of the hair of the politicians back home, or as a reward for loyalty.

 

[Marc 1]

And who appoints the Commissioners, and makes the rules under which they operate? National governments . . . i.e. politicians. BTW, have you noticed who the Commissioners are? Some are competent, but many are party hacks, pensioned off into well-paid jobs to get them out of the hair of the politicians back home, or as a reward for loyalty.

All told it sounds a bit like the UN really - frankly a mess that couldn't organise a drink at a brewery (at least not without several high level 200 man committees over a 10 year period).

 

[Grand Danois]

All told it sounds a bit like the UN really - frankly a mess that couldn't organise a drink at a brewery (at least not without several high level 200 man committees over a 10 year period).

At least you know that your fellow Europeans knows to appreciate a proper well-sized binge.

 

[kato]

Perhaps an attempt to show the military side:

• The European Union (EU) currently fields 125 combat brigades (roughly) plus a number of territorial units, in particular overseas
• The Western European Union (WEU) accounts for 75 of these 125 brigades, almost identical to the population share of the WEU within the EU (315 out of 500 million)
• The WEU alone currently deploys about 42,000 men* within ESDP (BiH, RCD), NATO (KFOR excl. OTH, ISAF), UNO DPKO and in the Persian Gulf and Indian Ocean (ESDP, NATO, national), not counting other national endeavours (Iraq); this accounts for a sustained current deployment of 4.25% of total manpower.
• Total WEU-only deployability numbers currently range around 35 to 40%, with an intermediate target figure around 40% (390,000 troops), sustainable deployability around 6 to 8%, target figure about one-quarter of deployable troops (10%, 98,000 troops).
• Within the WEU, currently deployed out of sustainability target within the above missions: IT 53% ; UK 50% ; NL 50% ; FR 39% ; GE 36% ; all others below 25%.
• Same out of current average sustainability (assumed at 7%): IT 76% ; UK 71% ; NL 71% ; FR 56% ; GE 52% ; others below 35%. Overall average within WEU about 60%.
• ISAF proportion within the above 5 WEU nations out of sustainability target: UK 42% ; NL 41% ; GE 19% ; IT 17% ; FR 13%

*- source: NATO, EUFOR placemats; UNO DPKO office.

 

[gvg]

......

• Within the WEU, currently deployed out of sustainability target within the above missions: IT 53% ; UK 50% ; NL 50% ; FR 39% ; GE 36% ; all others below 25%.
• Same out of current average sustainability (assumed at 7%): IT 76% ; UK 71% ; NL 71% ; FR 56% ; GE 52% ; others below 35%. Overall average within WEU about 60%.
• ISAF proportion within the above 5 WEU nations out of sustainability target: UK 42% ; NL 41% ; GE 19% ; IT 17% ; FR 13%

......

I don't understand the above list.
What do you mean with "...out of sustainability target...." and "...out of current average sustainability....."?

 

[kato]

I don't understand the above list.
What do you mean with "...out of sustainability target...." and "...out of current average sustainability....."?

- out of 25% of deployability (NATO target figure, one-quarter of deployable troops sustainable)
- out of 70% of the above figure (assumed current readiness in "real terms")

Sustainability means the actual troops you can keep on the ground, accounting for rotations etc. Within NATO, the target figure for that is 25%, accounting for one group in-theater, one rotating in, one rotating out and one at home (and all groups of identical size). Actual current figures are below 20% with most armies.
The USA hunkers somewhere slightly above 20% for troops actually deployed to combat theaters, and only really comes above it through "surges", ie. delaying in-/out-rotations.

The above means for example with Italy:
- total deployable troops 55,000 (taken from posted graph)
- target sustainable troops 13,750 (= one-quarter of above)
- assumed sustainable troops 9,625 (= 70% of target)

Deployed Italian troops of current 7,300 equal:
- 76% of assumed sustainability of 9,625 troops
- 53% of target sustainability of 13,750 troops

Of the above 53% share (7,300 out of 13,750 troops), Italy has a 17% share (2,350 out of 13,750 troops) currently stationed in ISAF.