Pirates
- Thread starter type 209
- Start date
- Status
The Phalanx does have a surface mode, however, it's an overkill to employ it for that. That is why Mk-38 chain guns and .50 cals are mounted on USN ships.
Good job digging up the info StingrayOZ...
As to defense... CIWS sends a good message.
Saw this over at:
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/us_world/NATLUS-Cargo-Ship-Hijacked-Near-Somalia-Coast-Officials.html
Protecting the waters from who?
From doing what?
As to defense... CIWS sends a good message.
Saw this over at:
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/us_world/NATLUS-Cargo-Ship-Hijacked-Near-Somalia-Coast-Officials.html
What the hell are they smoking????
Protecting the waters from who?
From doing what?
Foreign warships from illegally entering the 12-nm territorial coastal zone.
Foreign commercial fishing vessels from illegally fishing in the 200-nm exclusive economic zone.
They do have a valid point in both of those, as long as there is no Somali government doing the job.
nfloorl:Were you serious???
Tell me, what fishing is being done by cargo ships?
How about that yacht?
How about ships hundreds of miles away?
Face it, these are roving gangs only out for a quick buck. They need to find out what a Paveway will do to their pirate ships, once they are properly identified of course.
localhost127
Member
is it known whether:
-these pirates are considered 100% 'rogue' ? is it known whether they are operating completely independently of any other pirate group, or in unison?
-is there someone financing these attacks at the top - which would be a good place to start combating?
-these rogue pirate-groups are keeping the ransom money for themselves, or does the majority go back to the financier.
basically, my question comes down to - just how independent are these pirates from other pirates, or others financing the operations.
-these pirates are considered 100% 'rogue' ? is it known whether they are operating completely independently of any other pirate group, or in unison?
-is there someone financing these attacks at the top - which would be a good place to start combating?
-these rogue pirate-groups are keeping the ransom money for themselves, or does the majority go back to the financier.
basically, my question comes down to - just how independent are these pirates from other pirates, or others financing the operations.
Like many people across the globe, this thought has passed across their minds...
How come these Merchant ships aren't shooting back ??
It's quite simple...
They AIN'T allowed to.
Read this article here (http://www.analyst-network.com/article.php?art_id=2632), as it has most of the Q & A's that everyone has.
But to paraphrase.
International Maritime regs basically forbid it. Main reason is, if the crew of a ship is allowed to carry arms, what's to stop them moving arms from 'A' to 'B' ?
Also, when dealing with pirates, your average Merchant ship is limited to a max speed of about 18 Kts, & usually transits (from 'A' to 'B') at about 12-15Kts.
Most of these pirates are running in at the merchant ships in small rigid inflatables, at about 30Kts, armed with RPG's & AK-47's.
The merchant captain has 2 options...
#1. Run up to max speed & call for help, while trying to defend himself with water hoses & by zig-zagging.
#2 Run up to max speed & call for help, while trying to defend himself with water hoses & by zig-zagging, then stopping dead in the water when he's boarded.
However, if the Merchant ships were ARMED, yes they might shoot back, but it would leave them open to attack by the RPG's, probably causing a large fire to break out.
And, as any good sailor will tell you, fighting a fire at sea isn't fun, it's life or death. Save the ship or die.
With the cost of the ship, the crew, the cargo & the insurance costs involved, is it any wonder that most of these merchant ships are stopping, being boarded & paying the ransom.
Finally, as an aside, there are SOME merchant ships that are allowed to be armed, but in fairness it's understandable and they do have a special dispensation, as we're talking about the vessels that transport Nuclear materials.
After all, would you like some pirate running away with some plutonium for a dirty bomb ??
SA
i think ships should move in large groups as much as possible.
There is this special netting that makes it very hard to be boarded.
Lastly security contractors....
they usually get the job done. not as clean as you would like it but they usually get it done.
Blackwater show cased one of their escort boats a few months ago. It has a heli deck and is like armed to the teeth with heavy machine guns. It would be wise for a convoy of ships to use their services if escort services by naval vessels aren't available. Security contractors don't really care about rules of engagement and who is going to do anything about it? the government of Somalia?, and more importantly how they going to prove anything.
I say we hunt them down like rats and let them rot in the sea.
There is this special netting that makes it very hard to be boarded.
Lastly security contractors....
they usually get the job done. not as clean as you would like it but they usually get it done.
Blackwater show cased one of their escort boats a few months ago. It has a heli deck and is like armed to the teeth with heavy machine guns. It would be wise for a convoy of ships to use their services if escort services by naval vessels aren't available. Security contractors don't really care about rules of engagement and who is going to do anything about it? the government of Somalia?, and more importantly how they going to prove anything.
I say we hunt them down like rats and let them rot in the sea.
SA, as usual thanks for the fairly comprehensive FAQ link below.
If you are interested there is also a transcript of interview with Vice Adm. Gortney on the successful rescue of Captain Richard Phillips. Please note Vice Adm. Gortney's comments on the hostage negotiation process and that escalation by the pirates occurred. This resulted in the need to provide for a lethal solution, which was provided by the navy seals.
There is an article in DangerRoom that says 'Sonic, Pain Weapons All Wrong for Pirate Fight'. This article explains the limitations of some of these technology based solutions.
If you are interested there is also a transcript of interview with Vice Adm. Gortney on the successful rescue of Captain Richard Phillips. Please note Vice Adm. Gortney's comments on the hostage negotiation process and that escalation by the pirates occurred. This resulted in the need to provide for a lethal solution, which was provided by the navy seals.
Well how long before something like that happens. They already got a ship with tanks and other military equipment.
Well something needs to change because its not working, but no ones prepared to fix the cause and we can't effectively treat the symptoms..
Reading that transcript I have a hard time seeing why they are so sure that the leveled gun meant a immediate threat. Also the fact that the pirates shot into the water when the Captain made an escape attempt does prove that at least at that time they were rather eager to keep him alive.
IMHO, given that the lifeboat was almost impossible to assault it seems that the snipers used a situation which could be interpretated as life-threatening in which it was rather easy to identify and relatively easy to shot the pirates. It was a split-second decision by the team leader and we will never know if it was necessary or not.
necessary? we should use every single excuse to kill them. it is a public service.
it is true that somalia is dirt poor and desperate but if all the nations of this world respond to them with brutal, merciless force, i am sure the pirate problem would go away. if say 90% of the men that leave port get shot or captured, i am sure they will be alot more unwilling to continue piracy.
it is true that somalia is dirt poor and desperate but if all the nations of this world respond to them with brutal, merciless force, i am sure the pirate problem would go away. if say 90% of the men that leave port get shot or captured, i am sure they will be alot more unwilling to continue piracy.
This has been discussed before. The answers are yes and no to all the questions.
There are multiple pirate groups. They began small-scale, fishermen turned pirate, but are now mostly organised & well-financed, with international networks, skilled & multi-lingual negotiators, etc. The backers keep most of the ransoms, but the men with guns in small boats get many times what they could earn honestly. There are also small groups, stealing from foreign fishing boats, stealing small boats from Yemenis, etc.
Read back, & you'll see that I & some others have advocated going after the money, the people who control it, & their networks, as well as taking direct action against the pirates.
And most of those you kill will be fishermen, trying to scrape a bare living. That's why it isn't being done, & won't be done.
There is no unanimity in support for piracy in Somalia. Some imams preach against them, for example. One journalist kidnapped (by his bodyguards!) in Somalia recently reported that where he had been, in Bossasso (not a base for pirate operations, but pirates or their backers live there), some of the mosques condemn piracy in every sermon, urging fathers to ban their daughters from marrying pirates, etc.
Kill indiscriminately, & you encourage the religio-political extremists. Somalis have a revenge culture, & don't give up easily. Kill the uninvolved, & you involve their clans.
Who said anything about killing indiscriminately???
Without better intel, all we can do for now is monitor and defend the ships in the area.
How about getting a couple of globalhawks in the area. Follow some pirates after they are rebuffed back to their mothership. Drop a couple of JDAMs on the mothership.
In news reported in DT's revamped news section, the Japanese Maritime Self-Defense Force (MSDF) helped prevent a pirate attack on a Singaporean tanker off the coast of Somalia with a LRAD 1000X. The Japanese government even authorized the use of force by its MSDF if any -- even non-Japanese -- elements came under attack:
BTW, Singapore and Korea have also sent navy ships and all 3 navies use the LRAD directed sound products and systems.
Zoolander did. He suggested killing 90% of those who left shore. That would mean mostly killing fishermen & traders - and yes, there is seaborne trade to & from Somalia, local traffic in dhows to Yemen, for example.
You need more than a couple, is the problem. They can stay in the air a long time, but can't be everywhere at once, & the area is very large. And who will provide them? There aren't huge numbers of them in the world, & they're in use.
This seems to be your big problem: appreciating scale. What you suggest is usually doable, but would need large numbers of people & equipment & lots of money - more than shipowners are currently paying in ransoms & extra insurance.
- Status