Taiwan Will Build It's Own Submarines

[Ananda]

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4035332

I believe no one will doubt the level of sophistications of Taiwan Industry. It's just a little bit amaze me why they don't do this years ago. I have little knowledge on submarines manufacturing (this is exagaration I have no knowledge at all )

However with huge network that Taiwan Industry have in this world, it should not be dificult for Taiwan to gain accces on building the submarines on their own right ?

The article still show some doubt that taiwan can do this on their own ? however outside US (which has not bulid any SSK for 50 years), whose going to provide their submarines know how for taiwan ??
Could it be country like Sweden which might be not really concern with Chinese market (I mean Volvo & Sabb is not really a big sell in China ) will be willing to cooperate with Taiwan in some level ??

 

[HKSDU]

Volvo trucks are a huge sell in China actually.

 

[Ananda]

well if Sweden willl also choose Chinese market than taiwan's potentially mulitiple billions USD projects, then I honestly do not know whose in the international market (besides US) that willing to collborate with Taiwan on this Submarines project.

Even US seems's increasingly reluctant on helping Taiwan developed more sophisticated weapon systems. I Honestly hope they can build relative sophisticated SSK on their own. I'm not anti PRC, but Taiwan deserved to freely build their own deffense like everybode else.

 

[Falstaff]

Very interesting read, Ananda, thanks for sharing.

"If Pakistan, South Korea and Japan can build a submarine, then Taiwan can do it," said the former defense official.

Well that's an interesting quote. Pakistan as well as South Korea are license-producing subs with (IIRC) no significant indigenous equipment, whereas Japan has designed and built submarines for decades.
Sure Taiwan has the industrial infrastructure to manufacture submarines, but since there is no design expertise/ experience at all I think Japan cannot be an example.

Yet, I guess that when Taiwan decides to make an official announcement some day there must be something cooking. Something like this:

Kaohsiung-based CSBC pushed for an indigenous submarine program in 2001, but was unable to get MND support. The design for the Hidden Dragon Program, later known as the Indigenous Defense Submarine, was based on the Argentinean TR-1700 and the Norwegian Ula-class Type 210.

Assuming that Taiwan doesn't want to wait 20-30 years my guess is that one of the western SSK-manufacturers will provide the neccessary documents and know-how unofficially so that Taiwan's submarine might very well look familiar.
As I said, it's just an assumption. But I remember that some years ago it was reported that Taiwan tried to acquire U-214 class subs that were to be built in the US.

 

[Ragusian]

They should maybe visit Montenegro and have a look at their P-831 Sava class submarine. I believe it's for sale. Its not the newest design, but I hear its in good shape and it would be a nice base to start from.

http://www.paluba.info/images/831.jpg

 

[Ananda]

Questions is, what country now that willing to aggreviated PRC by participating in some ways with Taiwan's Submarines project.

PRC always see that submarines is one of main stratigicall force that will able to effectively blockade Taiwan. If Taiwan able to developed effective submarine fleet, that will much reduce one of PRC main advantage.

 

[swerve]

Questions is, what country now that willing to aggreviated PRC by participating in some ways with Taiwan's Submarines project....

A small country far from China & not selling much to it, or a large country not worried about annoying China because it can retaliate against Chinese sanctions. The USA, for example . . .

 

[HKSDU]

Well not really and SSK can't much and SSN. And frankly Tawain will never have SSN in their fleet, while China has far few SSN coming into its fleet in this coming decade. I dont think Tawain is capable of manufacturing and advance or even modern submarine on its own. They industry is foreign supplied relied and their own government will rather pay more to buy foreign military equipment, rather then their own. Its pretty bad move, making Tawain foreign military reliant on hardware. If Tawain was to build their own I would say it'll be alright submarine, approaching modern but not advanced. But thats not the case, it still needs to kick start their own domestic military sector, but the government is reluctant to do so for some reason.

 

[Ananda]

A small country far from China & not selling much to it, or a large country not worried about annoying China because it can retaliate against Chinese sanctions. The USA, for example . . .

The dutch did it in the 80's..but after the 90's they didn't even want to involve with the further modifications, let alone sell Their Walrus (which's a step ahead from Zwardvis that they sell to Taiwan in the 80's)..
I thought about sweden, since this the only smaller industrialized submarines manufacturing nation that still have sophisticated SSK design (which I believe still ahead from any SSK that China have at this moment)...but at this present time (global crisis) seems sweden also need chinese market for their products..

Will US at this present crisis willing to aggreviated PRC for the sake of Taiwan's submarines projects..??
And US with no SSK design on their own also need some other country design..will the european provide the design..?? The PRC clearly now that they might be can not prevent US to build Taiwan SSK or provided Taiwan with the expertise...should the US choose..
However they also know that the US will need some foreign design to begin with..and they (PRC) know that they can after the other country for not involving on the projects..

Will Taiwan go with unproven local design..??
or could it be the US will provide SSK design derived from Los Angeles or Sea Wolf..?? I know it's far fetched but could it be done..??
It will be interesting though to see smaller diesel electrics vertion of Los Angeles..

 

[swerve]

The Netherlands can no longer build submarines, in any case. Skills lost. Ditto Croatia, I think. It would take them some time to rebuild their skills base.

Taiwan might be able to hire individuals from countries which have scaled back submarine building.

 

[KiwiRob]

The Netherlands can no longer build submarines, in any case. Skills lost. Ditto Croatia, I think. It would take them some time to rebuild their skills base.

Funny you should mention Croatia, I was at Brodosplit BSO a month or so back and we discussed subs, they still say they have the ability to build them and are hoping the Croatian Govt considers new subs within the next decade.

 

[Ragusian]

A small Taiwan delegation visited Crotia in 2000. to discuss this very matter, but they were turned down back then.

I guess BSO and BI could design a sub that would be a modernised Sava class with elements from the planned but never built Lora class. It's primarily a political decision, rather then technical.

 

[swerve]

Interesting. They must have kept people on, & kept them doing enough to be fairly current. From what I've heard (not gospel, BTW - I have no inside knowledge) RDM seems to have lost everyone, or moved them into other areas so long ago they've lost all the relevant skill.