F-X deal is back on. Brazil back in action

Grand Danois

Entertainer
First a little off topic on cost, risk and the Danish acquisition of fighters.

SAAB offered 48 GNG at a fly-away @ 60 million USD per unit. More than twice the cost of the last Gripen C/D to roll off the production line for SWAF. Indication that the GNG cannot be considered a direct extension of the Gripen production run.

The offer for Denmark is 160 million USD per unit 30 yr LCC. What upgrades that are included are not known beyond the usual software upgrades. This and the expected small airframe numbers constitute the commercial risk. And of course the extra kit needed like targeting pods. The NATO countries gear up for tier one combat, dense IADS, PAK-FA class opposition. In this environment GNG will need heavy upgrading.

A correction: 24 is not the likely purchase number for Denmark. 48 is the unofficial requirement, 38-42 is the expected and 24 is the negotiating position of a major opposition party.

And now on topic, but with reference to above: Sth America is not gearing up for heavy duty work in the near-medium future, so the GNG suffer much less from the uncertainties pertaining to aforementioned environment, e.g. the few S-300 and Flankers Venezuela may operate, taking a lot of the commercial risk out of the equation.

The cheaper cost is lucrative, but maybe more importantly, Sweden could have the best potential for industrial/technology partnering, being more willing to partner up on JVs and technology sharing.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
http://arms-tass.su/?page=article&aid=67720&cid=24

Apparently Rosoboroneksport has resubmitted the Su-35BM for reevaluation in the F-X2 tender. Italy is pressing for the same to be done with the Eurofighter. Brazilian minister of defense has already agreed to re-evaluate the Su-35BM next summer, following a Rosoboroneksport visit in February. It's quite possible that L&M will also want a re-evaluation, and as a result the tender will be set back by quite a bit. Given current financial troubles, and possbility of freezing a large part of the procurement budget, this doesn't look good.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
Brazilian minister of defense has already agreed to re-evaluate the Su-35BM next summer, following a Rosoboroneksport visit in February.
That "agreement" (purely verbal) has been formally repudiated by the ministry. The minister has a reputation, according to Brazilians posting elsewhere, for letting his mouth run away with him, & this seems to have been an example.

The official statement released afterwards makes it clear that there is no change to the process. The previous shortlist stands, regardless of off-the-cuff remarks by the minister.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
Slight correction to my correction: the relevant authorities haven't said the minister was talking through the wrong orifice, i.e. they haven't actually said that what he said was wrong. They've said "We are not aware of any changes".

Minister Nelson Jobim also said that the Italians could send Eurofighter for evaluation. :D
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Slight correction to my correction: the relevant authorities haven't said the minister was talking through the wrong orifice, i.e. they haven't actually said that what he said was wrong. They've said "We are not aware of any changes".

Minister Nelson Jobim also said that the Italians could send Eurofighter for evaluation. :D
That's what the article claims. So it's a verbal agreement, with someone known to make idiotic comments. Alright.
 

Salty Dog

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Even the Brazilian Press, known to pick up on remarks from government officials never took Minister Jobim's comments seriously from his radio broadcast, they never made it into the mainstream press. However, various blogs did, leading to some fervent discussions.

The LAAD defense expo will be held in Brazil in April and we'll see then what new developments, if any, are in the F-X2 program.
 

ROCK45

New Member
Fx

Thanks Salty Dog for the information update.

I was wondering and it may have been asked before but are these future aircraft replacing F-5's or AMX's?

Can I assume Brazil will still keep the Mirage 2000's operational?

Thanks
 

Salty Dog

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Replacement priority for the F-X2 are the Mirage 2000s which were acquired 2nd hand from France.

The F-5 and AMX fleets are being upgraded and should be around until 2020-2025. These will be eventually replaced by follow-on batches of the F-X2 fighter.
 

ROCK45

New Member
Brazil offers

Sorry if this been covered already but I saw in the Spain Air Force thread the F-35B mention. Basically wanted to know if Brazil show any interests in the F-35B? I'm thinking they may get some use out the carrier they have with F-35B instead of old A-4?

I don't think the Rafale M would be able to get off the deck with a heavy load right?

I think the F-35B might be a good seller for LM down the road a little, gives many navies added options.
 

Salty Dog

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Latin American Aerospace and Defense (LAAD) trade show in Rio De Janeiro Brazil, to be held from April 14 to 17, 2009 is the most important trade show for the defense and security industry in Latin America. LAAD brings together Brazilian and international companies that specialize in supplying equipment and services to all three major services of the Armed Forces, special forces and security services, as well as consultants and government agencies. In the 12 years since its first edition, LAAD has been the only defense exhibition in the region that has demonstrably enabled participants to network, do business, and update their knowledge. As key military decision-makers, official delegates from a wide range of countries often engage in long-term business ventures at the show
If anyone is going to LAAD, look me up at the Lockheed Martin stand. Just ask for Peter.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
I saw a rian.ru article earlier today with statements from Rosoboroneksport stating that they think the Su-35BM has good chances in the Brazilian tender, since the agreement to re-evaluate it. I was wondering if you have anything on your end Salty Dog...
 

Salty Dog

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
I saw a rian.ru article earlier today with statements from Rosoboroneksport stating that they think the Su-35BM has good chances in the Brazilian tender, since the agreement to re-evaluate it. I was wondering if you have anything on your end Salty Dog...
Unless this is a new development, this "agreement" may be based on the Defense Minister Jobim's radio broadcast remarks, which has been refuted by the Brazilian Air Force (discussed in previous posts). I expect to hear more on this next week when a multitude of defense contractors are in Rio de Janeiro for LAAD.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
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Salty Dog

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
DID reported the statement by Fomin in regards to the Su-35 being back in the tender, and a possibility of licensed assembly of the PAK-FA in Brazil.
I've seen a few bits where the Minister of Defense has said he will await the Brazilian Air Force results and choice amongst the three F-X2 finalists then make a "political decision" on the F-X2 choice. It also seems that the Eurofighter Typhoon is invited along with the Su-35 to "participate" in technical evaluations. Nothing from Lockheed Martin so far on the F-16BR. IMHO this is just a way for the Minister himself to save face.

Interesting about the the PAK-FA talks with EMBRAER. AFAIK Boeing already has a MOU with EMBRAER for F/A-18E/F assembly.
 

Josef

Banned Member
It's all F-16s in the market.

The F-18s are heading only to Australia..

The U.K. has Tornadoes! too bad for the EADS.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
In other news, the Brazilian air force is reported to have signed for the C-390.

Numbers not stated, but rumoured to be 23. It's previously been reported that the C-390 will come plumbed for tanking as standard, needing only a tanker kit a la A400M, meaning this purchase will also launch a new tanker aircraft onto the market.

Colombia has been reported to be interested. What other countries might be potential customers, & which of those might want to use it as a tanker?
 

Salty Dog

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
In other news, the Brazilian air force is reported to have signed for the C-390.

Numbers not stated, but rumoured to be 23. It's previously been reported that the C-390 will come plumbed for tanking as standard, needing only a tanker kit a la A400M, meaning this purchase will also launch a new tanker aircraft onto the market.

Colombia has been reported to be interested. What other countries might be potential customers, & which of those might want to use it as a tanker?
ENAER (Chile) has an MOU for development and production of the C-390, which could lead to a FACh (Chilean Air Force) acquisition.

The latest C-130J is deemed very expensive at about US$ 63 M per copy. The C-390 is estimated at about US$50 M per copy and it's to carry 19 tons as compared to the the 21.7 tons for the C-130J.
 

Salty Dog

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Any news on the Su-35 and EF in the FX-2?
The Brazilian Air Force officially maintains that only the (3) finalists, F/A-18E/F, Gripen NG, and Rafale are in the F-X2 running.

There is not a word more from the MoD about further participation by the Su-35 and/or the Eurofighther Typhoon.

Brazilian military and industry folks dismiss the Defense Minister's remarks as typical political venting citing that no further remarks or any MoD official stance supporting a renewed evaluation of the Su-35, Typhoon, or F-16BR has been released. The press will have folks believe otherwise.

By the way the Boeing stand with the F/A-18E simulator was a big hit during the first day. Right across the aisle from the LM stand where I am working.
 
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