Royal New Zealand Air Force

[Todjaeger]

Why not just keep the huey, we have 14 airframes , keep 7-8 and reduce the rest for spares , they are simple and dirt cheep to operate and we know everything about them.Why spend more money.
When it comes to the modern RNZAF I cant understand this fasination to get bigger and bigger, Huey to NH90, C130 to A400 . Why dont we get assets that our Allies dont have eg, ADF is getting NH90s so we get B414s to fill that smaller market, same could be said for the C130s, ADF will get Js or A400s , they lost their Caribos so we fill that market with C27s . We do this already at the Strat level , we carry pax and ADF does the big stuff.
I know this idea only works in la-la land but bigger is not better, (in relation to aircraft )

Not quite sure that the 'Huey' is or will continue to be dirt cheap to operate. Something to keep in mind is that the youngest RNZAF Huey that was purchased 'new' is now 32-33 years old... The oldest are approaching ten years older than that. As time goes on the airframes age and metal fatigue as well as a diminishing supply of new parts can increase the cost both financial and support terms of operating the Huey. Once the threshold is crossed where the service the Huey provides is no longer worth as much if not more than the support costs, I would expect that the Huey will be retired. Given some of the announcements, I suspect the threshold will be crossed soon. This also makes sense in light of some of the fundamental changes to helicopter ops and the nature of a battlespace, compared to when the Huey first entered service.

-Cheers

 

[MrConservative]

Not quite sure that the 'Huey' is or will continue to be dirt cheap to operate. Something to keep in mind is that the youngest RNZAF Huey that was purchased 'new' is now 32-33 years old... The oldest are approaching ten years older than that. As time goes on the airframes age and metal fatigue as well as a diminishing supply of new parts can increase the cost both financial and support terms of operating the Huey. Once the threshold is crossed where the service the Huey provides is no longer worth as much if not more than the support costs, I would expect that the Huey will be retired. Given some of the announcements, I suspect the threshold will be crossed soon. This also makes sense in light of some of the fundamental changes to helicopter ops and the nature of a battlespace, compared to when the Huey first entered service.

-Cheers

According to a couple of 3Sqd chaps at Whenuapei I spoke to last weekend there is still quite a lot of life yet in some of the old girls. Something I specifically asked was how long could they last. The answer was that a few will be required as back up / support until at least 2013 whence the NH-90 programme is finally delivered. This has been already factored into tasking workloads. There is confidence that the better condition Huey’s in the fleet of 14 will surpass this. It is a mixed bag though, some more worn out than others they being the first to be replaced. The point is the aircraft will still be capable in 5 years to do the simple non combat roles they have done in support of the NZDF over the years. Dropping hay to stranded sheep during south island winter snow storms, carting septic tanks to DOC high country huts, assisting in the rebuild of Pacific Islander villages flatten by cyclones, dropping SAR crews to find lost hunters. The list can go on. Take out the combat element of its operations, flown and maintained by the AF Reserve, it could be possible that the Huey serve nobly in some capacity and take the strain off the NH-90 and A-109.

Also it was announced in Parliament yesterday by Wayne Mapp (DefMin) that Whenuapei AFB will remain as a permanent RNZAF facility. The runway will be upgraded as well as fuel depot and ancillary buildings. Excellent news

 

[recce.k1]

Good news with the Govt formally approving the retention & upgrading of Whenuapai air base and going for a "permanent solution rather than a patch up job". Those on base will be pleased no doubt.
http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/cabinet+confirms+plans+whenuapai
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10564562


Mr C: regarding the RNZAF Active Reserve.

Last week it was announced that Air NZ was looking at a $2.2B replacement of its B737-300's (either with new A320's or B737-800's).

Now we know that the RNZAF air transport fleet is rather thin and stretched etc. Just wondering whether there is any merit in the RNZAF acquiring some of the B737-300's as cheap and simple troop transporters? This would relieve pressure on the two RNZAF 757-200's when they are undergoing maintenance (or allow them to be used for a higher portion of combi cargo work) and similarly free up the C130's for similar reasons.

Now perhaps some of the B737 aircrew could be Air Force Reservists (eg active Air NZ captains etc). With the world economy downturn , presumably less people are flying (and with new competition like JetStar) meaning that a commercial operation like Air NZ needs to continuously cut costs. Presumably then if Air NZ needed to shed staff, with this new Govt initiative for some companies to operate a 9 day working fortnight, I wonder then whether some Air NZ aircrew might want to spend their 10th day (paid) with the RNZAF Active Reserve?

Maybe this is too simple to be true but it seems win-win to me:
* RNZAF has more air transport assets for military and civilian tasks (eg thus avoiding embarrassing situations when aircraft aren't available to evacuate its citizens from overseas).
* RNZAF would need additional personnel to operate/support these aircraft (good for career prospects etc).
* RNZAF Active Reserve actually has some decent aircraft to operate and experienced crew etc (great for those older, former RNZAF members who have resigned to take up positions with the airlines, to come back in as reservists etc).
* Air NZ still can retain some experienced aircrew and ground crew (and engineering staff would be retained to maintain these aircraft etc).
* RNZAF would get some decent VIP aircraft again, capable of flying to Australia and the South Pacific (again thus freeing up the 757's - seems a waste of a large aircraft to fly polllies & dignitaries around the neighbourhood).
* The 737's would presumably be a cheap buy.
* Unsure whether the 737's would be ideal/economic to operate in the short-medium range air patrol role, but maybe one or two could be mod'ed (after all the P-8 is a 737, so perhaps RNZAF aircrew could get some experience operating a jet in these maritime roles etc.

Just a thought, maybe someone can expand upon or make this work better. It's just that with the economic situation, this is just a cheaper way of adding value to the air force (thus govt objectives) and to some extent, Air NZ - i.e. making do with what we have already got.

Edit: Radio NZ interview with the DefMin
http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/mnr/mn...ai_Air_Base_has_been_thrown_life-line-048.mp3
Interesting, he states that $500M was the previous Govt's cost to shift Whenuapai ops to Ohakea (a figure that wasn't made public until now, although I suppose that's not suprising considering new hangers and other major infrastructure would have been needed at Ohakea)!

 

[Marc 1]

According to a couple of 3Sqd chaps at Whenuapei I spoke to last weekend there is still quite a lot of life yet in some of the old girls. Something I specifically asked was how long could they last. The answer was that a few will be required as back up / support until at least 2013 whence the NH-90 programme is finally delivered. This has been already factored into tasking workloads. There is confidence that the better condition Huey’s in the fleet of 14 will surpass this. It is a mixed bag though, some more worn out than others they being the first to be replaced. The point is the aircraft will still be capable in 5 years to do the simple non combat roles they have done in support of the NZDF over the years. Dropping hay to stranded sheep during south island winter snow storms, carting septic tanks to DOC high country huts, assisting in the rebuild of Pacific Islander villages flatten by cyclones, dropping SAR crews to find lost hunters. The list can go on.

I still say get rid of them from your defence force. If they are not capable of being deployed then they are just costing money. Money that could be used to maintain and fly something more capable. Pass the huey's on to the equivalent of your State Emergency Services or civvie SAR authorities.

An analogy you could use is that a SMLE .303 is still capable of killing a man (probably over a longer range than today's Austeyr too), but you don't see army's paying to keep these weapons secured, serviced and maintained (with all the requisite spare parts required) nor do you still see soldiers being trained to use them. The reason is down to effectiveness and cost, modern gear generally is more effective - why complicate your training systems, spare parts maintenance etc by having a 'legacy type' that cannot be deployed anyway?

Sure the huey's can drop fodder to cattle, an NH-90 could probably carry 4 times as much fodder, faster and over a longer range, which do you think would be cheaper to operate 8 x aircrew, 8 airframe hours (say 4 airframes at 2hours each) and all the attendant support for 4 choppers or say 1 x NH90 - 2 crew and say 1.5 airframe hours (because they probably cruise at twice the speed) and support for 1 modern airframe?

The huey was a mighty bird in its day (60's and 70's) but is a bit like taking a knife to a gun fight.

 

[Gibbo]

According to a couple of 3Sqd chaps at Whenuapei I spoke to last weekend there is still quite a lot of life yet in some of the old girls.....Take out the combat element of its operations, flown and maintained by the AF Reserve, it could be possible that the Huey serve nobly in some capacity and take the strain off the NH-90 and A-109.

Also it was announced in Parliament yesterday by Wayne Mapp (DefMin) that Whenuapei AFB will remain as a permanent RNZAF facility. The runway will be upgraded as well as fuel depot and ancillary buildings. Excellent news

I've always felt more AW109's would be purchased. So when in 2013 we see a fleet of 8 NH-90's; 5 AW109's; and 4-5 Hueys are all busy (c'os they will be!) then the RNZAF will have a strong case for replacing the last Huey's with additional AW109's. Hopefully they'll try to convince Govt to splash out on a light-armed reconn model!?!

p.s. Great news about Whenuapai & even better that there's already plans in place for upgrading!

 

[Gibbo]

...Just wondering whether there is any merit in the RNZAF acquiring some of the B737-300's as cheap and simple troop transporters? This would relieve pressure on the two RNZAF 757-200's when they are undergoing maintenance (or allow them to be used for a higher portion of combi cargo work) and similarly free up the C130's for similar reasons.

Actually I like the idea... although it'll have to be at market prices! AirNZ won't be giving them away!

 

[KH-12]

Can't see any new hardware purchases until after the promised Defence white paper is produced which will outline any capability gaps, not sure how the 737's would fit in the mix, they are purely a pax aircraft with a relatively limited. I'm sure in reality the 757's are'nt worked hard enough currently, there is obviously a temporary issue with 2x C130's out of the mix with the upgrade process, however this is only for a couple of years.

 

[MrConservative]

I still say get rid of them from your defence force. If they are not capable of being deployed then they are just costing money. Money that could be used to maintain and fly something more capable. Pass the huey's on to the equivalent of your State Emergency Services or civvie SAR authorities.

An analogy you could use is that a SMLE .303 is still capable of killing a man (probably over a longer range than today's Austeyr too), but you don't see army's paying to keep these weapons secured, serviced and maintained (with all the requisite spare parts required) nor do you still see soldiers being trained to use them. The reason is down to effectiveness and cost, modern gear generally is more effective - why complicate your training systems, spare parts maintenance etc by having a 'legacy type' that cannot be deployed anyway?

Sure the huey's can drop fodder to cattle, an NH-90 could probably carry 4 times as much fodder, faster and over a longer range, which do you think would be cheaper to operate 8 x aircrew, 8 airframe hours (say 4 airframes at 2hours each) and all the attendant support for 4 choppers or say 1 x NH90 - 2 crew and say 1.5 airframe hours (because they probably cruise at twice the speed) and support for 1 modern airframe?

The huey was a mighty bird in its day (60's and 70's) but is a bit like taking a knife to a gun fight.

The NZDF under the Defence Act 1990 also exists in terms of civilian support to the community. I think some people are being hung up about issues such as deployment and combat capability, which means they do not fully understand the broad role of the NZDF and its context with other government departments within NZ. The NZDF is part of the Govt multi-agency approach within our borders. It is the wheels, wings and sails of our other government agencies. I also think the legacy issue on this subject is overwrought and overplayed in this particular case. We are talking basically about a simple platform to do simple “part-time” tasks instead of using more or newer helicopters. The Huey is the Hilux ute of helicopters was one way it was described to me by a 3sqd groundie. There are some jobs that an old Hilux is still the best thing to use.

It is fiscally inappropriate to use an aircraft that will cost an estimated $30000 per hour and worth 70 million dollars for some domestic “housekeeping” roles in the NZDF whereas another aircraft costs around $2500 per hour to operate and has a value of considerably less. Within the context of a Volunteer Reserve Squadron operating a small number of Huey’s the cost - benefit analysis would lead to it being more effectively and appropriately doing the job thus avoiding a false economy.

It is also fiscally inappropriate to buy new state of the art helicopters or even second hand aircraft for this type of work. One of the big issues in the NZDF in recent years is that the wrong platforms are being used for the wrong task, e.g recently I posted on the frigate TeKaha used to deliver firewood to Campbell Island on behalf of D.O.C our state conservation service, diverting it away from other more pressing tasks. But under a multi-agency approach that we have to use because of our small size and limited resources, it was the only way.

 

[greenie]

Does anyone really think the GONZ would send a $90mil chopper to war zone let along one with the posibility of the chopper being written off. We only have 8 airframes, if we had 14 it might be a different story. The Hilux ute analogy if spot on, as in ET the huey filled a perfect niech role and believe it or not had a significantly higher availability rate than the blackhawks, their computers hated the moisture and would go into reset mode, but the ute kept trucking on.
Technology has its place, it also causes many probs too.

Dont forget our NH90s cant even land on a moving ship, what use is that!! The ADF is aparently discovered this and is making the changes on the production lines......are we:confused

As for the B757s, they are programmed to get even bussier, like all commercial jets they have less probs the more they fly, I love the idea about using Active reserve pilots, the B757 would be a good place to start.

 

[MrConservative]

Good news with the Govt formally approving the retention & upgrading of Whenuapai air base and going for a "permanent solution rather than a patch up job". Those on base will be pleased no doubt.
http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/cabinet+confirms+plans+whenuapai
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10564562


Mr C: regarding the RNZAF Active Reserve.

Last week it was announced that Air NZ was looking at a $2.2B replacement of its B737-300's (either with new A320's or B737-800's).

Now we know that the RNZAF air transport fleet is rather thin and stretched etc. Just wondering whether there is any merit in the RNZAF acquiring some of the B737-300's as cheap and simple troop transporters? This would relieve pressure on the two RNZAF 757-200's when they are undergoing maintenance (or allow them to be used for a higher portion of combi cargo work) and similarly free up the C130's for similar reasons.

Now perhaps some of the B737 aircrew could be Air Force Reservists (eg active Air NZ captains etc). With the world economy downturn , presumably less people are flying (and with new competition like JetStar) meaning that a commercial operation like Air NZ needs to continuously cut costs. Presumably then if Air NZ needed to shed staff, with this new Govt initiative for some companies to operate a 9 day working fortnight, I wonder then whether some Air NZ aircrew might want to spend their 10th day (paid) with the RNZAF Active Reserve?

Maybe this is too simple to be true but it seems win-win to me:
* RNZAF has more air transport assets for military and civilian tasks (eg thus avoiding embarrassing situations when aircraft aren't available to evacuate its citizens from overseas).
* RNZAF would need additional personnel to operate/support these aircraft (good for career prospects etc).
* RNZAF Active Reserve actually has some decent aircraft to operate and experienced crew etc (great for those older, former RNZAF members who have resigned to take up positions with the airlines, to come back in as reservists etc).
* Air NZ still can retain some experienced aircrew and ground crew (and engineering staff would be retained to maintain these aircraft etc).
* RNZAF would get some decent VIP aircraft again, capable of flying to Australia and the South Pacific (again thus freeing up the 757's - seems a waste of a large aircraft to fly polllies & dignitaries around the neighbourhood).
* The 737's would presumably be a cheap buy.
* Unsure whether the 737's would be ideal/economic to operate in the short-medium range air patrol role, but maybe one or two could be mod'ed (after all the P-8 is a 737, so perhaps RNZAF aircrew could get some experience operating a jet in these maritime roles etc.

Just a thought, maybe someone can expand upon or make this work better. It's just that with the economic situation, this is just a cheaper way of adding value to the air force (thus govt objectives) and to some extent, Air NZ - i.e. making do with what we have already got.

Edit: Radio NZ interview with the DefMin
http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/mnr/mn...ai_Air_Base_has_been_thrown_life-line-048.mp3
Interesting, he states that $500M was the previous Govt's cost to shift Whenuapai ops to Ohakea (a figure that wasn't made public until now, although I suppose that's not suprising considering new hangers and other major infrastructure would have been needed at Ohakea)!

Just a few of comments to cover this:

I think that once the upgraded C-130’s are delivered 40 Sqd would be in good shape. Well at least the best shape in the last 10 years. This should see us through until late next decade when we will have to do a proper long term procurement for 40sqd.

My view is that the 737-300 probably would not work effectively as a patrol platform. A Q200 MP / CASA 235 are far cheaper aircraft to operate in the low slow environment for coastal air ops. The 737-300’s limited range, pax & payload, also make it probably not the aircraft for airlift ops.

Also pilots will not qualify for the 10th day scheme until current rules nor will ANZ ground crew be keen as their EPMU Secretary Andrew Little dislikes the idea.

I also think that even leasing a couple of 737’s to carry John Key to a trip to see Kevin Rudd or to deliver some speech to a pacific Forum would lose votes. Not the stuff of positive headlines.

Having the B757 available for reserve pilots will only work if we have civilian pilots in NZ who are rated on the aircraft. I’m not sure there would be that many as the 757 is operated only by the RNZAF and very few would have gone Civvy St. Maybe an airline pilot would give us the good oil on what is involved swapping a 767 seat for a 757 seat. I understand it’s a bit more involved than jumping out of Cessna and into a Piper.

AF Reserve pilots could slot into the other aircraft on the fleet if they have already experienced the type.

A leased 757-200 would probably be the best result if we did require a further aircraft in the interim period.

The $500 million to transfer RNZAF Whenuapei ops to Ohakea is an example of a former Govt who did not have a clue how to run a defence force. It says it all really.

 

[Sea Toby]

While the air force bought eight NH-90s, I doubt whether they are prepared to send all eight of them into foreign operations. Much alike East Timor I suspect the air force is only prepared to send only half of their helicopters. Notice that the Canterbury, the most likely transport for foreign operations can carry four NH-90s. Also notice that four NH-90s can do the job of 8 Hueys. The NH-90 is a better helicopter, it lifts more personnel and equipment.

Where did you get the idea they would send all of their helicopters abroad? I don't see a situation when they would do that unless all of the army is sent abroad too. Australia would have to be under invasion before all of the helicopters and all of the army are sent abroad.

 

[MrConservative]

I've always felt more AW109's would be purchased. So when in 2013 we see a fleet of 8 NH-90's; 5 AW109's; and 4-5 Hueys are all busy (c'os they will be!) then the RNZAF will have a strong case for replacing the last Huey's with additional AW109's. Hopefully they'll try to convince Govt to splash out on a light-armed reconn model!?!

p.s. Great news about Whenuapai & even better that there's already plans in place for upgrading!

As I have said a few posts back if there is money for more A-109LUH’s (12-14 would be ideal) that would be great. However over the next few years I think defence spending on new equipment will be tight and what new money there is will go on bringing up manpower levels across the NZDF.

I could see a scenario where 3 more LUH’s could be added to the current contract within the next 3 years (prior to the RWC where scare rotary assets will be very important in terms of security) and a further 4-6 added in the following government term 2011-2014. Maybe the second tranche of A-109’s could be enhanced Armed/Recon versions. But, it all depends on how the economy is post 2011. The fact is we will probably wont see 8 NH-90’s and 12 LUH’s all in service until 2015/16. That is why sustaining the Huey’s is pertinent factor in the medium term mix.

 

[MrConservative]

While the air force bought eight NH-90s, I doubt whether they are prepared to send all eight of them into foreign operations. Much alike East Timor I suspect the air force is only prepared to send only half of their helicopters. Notice that the Canterbury, the most likely transport for foreign operations can carry four NH-90s. Also notice that four NH-90s can do the job of 8 Hueys. The NH-90 is a better helicopter, it lifts more personnel and equipment.

Where did you get the idea they would send all of their helicopters abroad? I don't see a situation when they would do that unless all of the army is sent abroad too. Australia would have to be under invasion before all of the helicopters and all of the army are sent abroad.

I dont think Greenie meant all eight at once as I read it Toby. Your right though that only four NH-90's would be deployed at one time. I think what Greenie was getting at is that it would be a very nervous CDF and PM knowing that one of their expensive choppers could go down. Hopefully one of those nice F/A-18's of the RAAF will be hanging around to ward off trouble would be running through the minds of said top brass.

 

[Aussie Digger]

Dont forget our NH90s cant even land on a moving ship, what use is that!! The ADF is aparently discovered this and is making the changes on the production lines......are we:confused

Really?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1JC5g6KMqc"]YouTube - The NH90[/ame]

Seems to land on a moving ship alright?

 

[ASFC]

Really?


Seems to land on a moving ship alright?

There are two versions of the NH-90, the NFH and the TTH. Whilst the NFH might be able to land on a moving ship, I wonder if the TTH can. And the TTH is what NZ is buying.

I'm not sure if the MRH that Oz is buying is a mix of both (you would expect so, no?) or one or the other.

 

[Sea Toby]

Yes there are two versions, one naval ASW helicopter and one army/air force transport helicopter. A helicopter is a helicopter.

We have seen the Seasprites operate off the Canterbury at speed. Frankly, it doesn't matter much if New Zealand's air force NH-90s transport helicopters can operate off the Canterbury at speed. During landing operations the ship won't be going fast anywhere anyway.

 

[KH-12]

If you can't land any helicopter on the Canterbury flight deck I would be surprised, I could probably land my glider on it if it was doing 19knts !

 

[Todjaeger]

Last week it was announced that Air NZ was looking at a $2.2B replacement of its B737-300's (either with new A320's or B737-800's).

Now we know that the RNZAF air transport fleet is rather thin and stretched etc. Just wondering whether there is any merit in the RNZAF acquiring some of the B737-300's as cheap and simple troop transporters? This would relieve pressure on the two RNZAF 757-200's when they are undergoing maintenance (or allow them to be used for a higher portion of combi cargo work) and similarly free up the C130's for similar reasons.

Now perhaps some of the B737 aircrew could be Air Force Reservists (eg active Air NZ captains etc). With the world economy downturn , presumably less people are flying (and with new competition like JetStar) meaning that a commercial operation like Air NZ needs to continuously cut costs. Presumably then if Air NZ needed to shed staff, with this new Govt initiative for some companies to operate a 9 day working fortnight, I wonder then whether some Air NZ aircrew might want to spend their 10th day (paid) with the RNZAF Active Reserve?

Maybe this is too simple to be true but it seems win-win to me:
* RNZAF has more air transport assets for military and civilian tasks (eg thus avoiding embarrassing situations when aircraft aren't available to evacuate its citizens from overseas).
* RNZAF would need additional personnel to operate/support these aircraft (good for career prospects etc).
* RNZAF Active Reserve actually has some decent aircraft to operate and experienced crew etc (great for those older, former RNZAF members who have resigned to take up positions with the airlines, to come back in as reservists etc).
* Air NZ still can retain some experienced aircrew and ground crew (and engineering staff would be retained to maintain these aircraft etc).
* RNZAF would get some decent VIP aircraft again, capable of flying to Australia and the South Pacific (again thus freeing up the 757's - seems a waste of a large aircraft to fly polllies & dignitaries around the neighbourhood).
* The 737's would presumably be a cheap buy.
* Unsure whether the 737's would be ideal/economic to operate in the short-medium range air patrol role, but maybe one or two could be mod'ed (after all the P-8 is a 737, so perhaps RNZAF aircrew could get some experience operating a jet in these maritime roles etc.

I personally would have some hesitation about the RNZAF picking up ex-Air NZ 737-200's. One of the first concerns I have is what sort of shape the aircraft are in, and why is Air NZ looking to remove them from their fleet? If memory serves, the 737-200 was last manufactured somewhere around 1984, which is when the 737-300 first flew. If that is correct, it would mean that the Air NZ 737's being replaced are 25+ years old. If that is the case, they likely are reaching the end of their service lives. If the RNZAF added them to the inventory, they could end up with 'hangar queens' which spend as much or more time being serviced and maintained than they do in providing an operational capability. As for modding one to allow it to provide MPA functions, I do not think that would be a cost effective option unless it was done at a very basic level. While Boeing is developing a version of the 737-800 into the P-8 Poseidon, a great deal of effort (and trouble) is coming about developing and integrating the various mission systems to provide the MPA capability. If NZ were to try and replicate this, I suspect it would prove a difficult and expensive undertaking, particularly when compared with the amount of useful service life likely left in the 737-200's.

Incidentally, I personally think that when the RNZAF retired the 727's and replaced them with 757's, the wrong aircraft was chosen. IIRC the 757 had just ceased production, and the notion of purchasing 2nd hand, out of production aircraft seems wrong to me. Especially if there are other aircraft still in production with comparable capabilities.

-Cheers

 

[KH-12]

Just a note of correction the 737's are the 300 series, rather than the straight pipe 200 series which were sold off awhile back, the youngest of the 737-300's is only 10 years old.

 

[Todjaeger]

Just a note of correction the 737's are the 300 series, rather than the straight pipe 200 series which were sold off awhile back, the youngest of the 737-300's is only 10 years old.

Okay, being the -300 series does make a difference. The oldest of which could be nearly 25 years, but the newest would be much younger. If they are only about a decade old, any idea why Air NZ is looking to remove them from the inventory? I ask because that reason can make all the difference in the question how viable they would be for the RNZAF.

-Cheers