True Reasons Behind the Confrontations amid US and China

[Flyman]

What are true reasons behind the Confrontaions on South China Sea amid US and China militaries? It seems easy to understood by ones with Chinese cultural background but very dificult to those western military experts. Up to now, It has only been seen that US Congressman, Republican Representative Mark Kirk remarked that It's an early test of the new US president and the story would reverberate around the world and would be carefully watched in North Korea, Iran and Syria.

Appreciate Mark Kirk's efforts to point out some substantials behinded and hope that US administration and militaries would be alerted by Mark Kirk's remarks. However, from a Chinese's ponit of view, Mark Kirk's remark is far not enough to the truth! What is the truth?

On April 1, 2001, a similarly incident happened on South China Sea and a collision resulted between US Navy EP-3 and China PLA Air Forcr J-8s which caused the death of the J-8's pilot, Lt. Cdr. Wang Wei, while the EP-3 was forced to make an emergency landing on Hainan. It was intersting to dig out
that the incident had just made Chinese authorities safely passed a keen internal political crisis and the former president Jiang Zemin beaten his political competitors with the help of the incident. However, a question has been still remaining as who maneuvered and designed that incident as well as commanded China's pilots to make dangerous flight activities from Beijing to Hainan. Although we are not able to get further intense secrets inside right now, but as the Chairman of Military Committee of China, Jiang Zemin really politically benefited from the incident.

Both incidents happened in 2001 and 2009 have the same characteristic that China's militaries maneuvered and conducted dangerous activities against US aircrafts and vessels that were absolutely not allowed in PLA's normal exercise and training regulations. Such as these dangourous activities could only take place under one condition that the commands came from the highest level of Chinese Militaries and only one person was affordable for the loses and risks whatever in military men's lifes and in Chinese politics. In 2001, the person was the former President Jiangzemin and the person in 2009 is the China's President and Chairman of Chinese Military Committee Hu Jintao.

Fortunately, the USNS Impeccable successfully and safely dodged China Navy's harassment and didn't left any chance for Chinese authorities to stimulate Chinese young people again and to make another patriotism passion tide sweeping the whole country. It's apparently true that President Hu Jintao is not as lucky as the former President Jiang Zemin in this confrontation on South China Sea amid US and China and that President Hu Jintao has also tutored new US Administration how to deal with Chinese government in free of charge .

 

[Mazepa]

Hard ball...

The U.S. ship may have been monitoring China's new Shang-class nuclear-powered attack submarine, which had been spotted at a base near Yulin on Hainan, he wrote.

Shen, the Chinese expert, said "China won't be as accommodating as before" about U.S. forays into those seas.

"If the United States still insists on unfettered access, this could still escalate," he said.

"If that happens, how will the (Chinese) government explain to people here why we still keep lending them money? ... Nobody wants to see that."

Will USA accept the fact that they can not deploy spyships exactly where they want to be? It would be a painful decision to accept that some areas are in fact a "no go" but its the reality. I dont think they would enjoy having spyships and spyplanes buzzing the doorstep of continental america. And its cleary seen by its response to the russian bomber runs where they urgently send up jets only to "exchange cookie recipes with the russians".

 

[crobato]

Also remember that the Kitty Hawk was refused entry to Hong Kong back in 2007 soon after the PLAN had a major exercise in the region. There were rumors that a 094 was being on transit to the base.

All these confrontations have something to do with that sub base, which also has a major naval base for the surface ships. There is a big presence there, considering, the 052B and 052C docks there along with 054A frigates. The latest arrival is the 071 LPD.

This confrontation certainly won't be the last of US attempts to monitor and survey the base, but it won't be the last for Chinese attempts to such such activities either. But they will certainly talk to create a framework in defining what is allowed and how to deal with the confrontations. As a matter of fact, both sides are already talking, since they want to sweep these under the rug quickly.

Chinese actions in the area are one hand doing this another hand doing something else. They're certainly very guarded about spying with surveillance aircraft and ships, and yet across the bay, you got 5 star hotels with Western hotel brand names all over, and long beaches where any foreigner can stroll and take shots of the submarines and ships with their cameras. In fact shots like this are a constant supply being posted in the forums. They held a Miss World and Miss Universe pageant there, and there is also a five star golf course. There was a military exchange not too long ago, and even a bunch of retired USN people visited the island.

China's newest rocket launching facility for its space program will also be on this island.

 

[Flyman]

Chinese leaders played and gained from confrontations

Chinese leaders played and gained from confrontations, however US State Secretary Clinton met China FM and told reporters:

"As I said during my recent visit to Beijing, this is a very important relationship to both of our countries, and the United States intends to work together with China to build a positive, cooperative, and comprehensive relationship, and to work together with China to address common challenges and seize common opportunities."

China FM Yang has never been being honestly and warmly spoken a similar word with that of Secretary Clinton even in public and private occasions. China FM spokesman severely criticized Americans just one day before Mr. Yang met Secretary Clinton in Washington DC.

 

[Flyman]

I feel very sad for US President and Secretary of State

I feel very sad for US President and Secretary of State to be cheated again by Chinese government.

 

[xudeen]

I feel very sad for US President and Secretary of State to be cheated again by Chinese government.

Can you elaborate on your statement?

 

[Humanoid]

In any case,

I highly doubt we'll be having any more problems with confrontations, now that our surveillance vessel has a 'big brother' haha, see what the Chinese have to say about a little show of USN force in the South China Sea :nutkick

 

[ReAl PrOeLiTeZ]

I feel very sad for US President and Secretary of State to be cheated again by Chinese government.

how are they being cheated by the chinese government, by denying them survaliance on their naval vessels, to record radar signatures and accoustics?

 

[Flyman]

It's very clear and easy to be understood by Chinese

It's very clear and easy to be understood by Chinese people but maybe very difficult by western people. Not only me, I have found some other Chinese articles revealing Chinese government's playing and cheating.

 

[Flyman]

Question 1

Question 1

Before China FM Yang Jiechi flied to Washington DC, he strongly and angrily criticized American's invasion and damaged China's state sovereignty in an address to the highest lawmaker National People's Congress in Beijing. Some high military officials also expressed their angry and resolution to protect China's sovereignty on South China Sea. Why and how had their positions been all changed just a few hours after Secretary Clinton met him at Washington DC? There is no any articles and voices criticizing American to be found in China's media now. Have FM Yang and his partners truly changed?

 

[swerve]

Will USA accept the fact that they can not deploy spyships exactly where they want to be? It would be a painful decision to accept that some areas are in fact a "no go" but its the reality. I dont think they would enjoy having spyships and spyplanes buzzing the doorstep of continental america. And its cleary seen by its response to the russian bomber runs where they urgently send up jets only to "exchange cookie recipes with the russians".

They did have spy ships & spy planes on the doorstep of the continental USA for many years, & they now have them again. The reaction is to send something to have a look, & let the ship or plane know it's been noticed, not attack it.

The PLAN sends ships & submarines to do the same. It has, sometimes, done much more, e.g. sending a nuclear submarine through Japanese territorial waters, submerged (a clear hostile act).

We used to have visits from Soviet aircraft every day, & have Soviet ships sitting off our main naval bases permanently. We sent fighters up to say hello, of course, & patrol vessels to keep an eye on the Soviet surveillance ships. The Russians have started visiting the edge of our airspace again. So what? As long as they obey the rules, no problem. It's objectionable only when they don't, e.g. the Tu-95 that overflew a remote Japanese island.

The Chinese behaviour is hypoctitical (protesting at others doing what they do themselves) & contrary to international law.

 

[swerve]

Question 1

Before China FM Yang Jiechi flied to Washington DC, he strongly and angrily criticized American's invasion and damaged China's state sovereignty in an address to the highest lawmaker National People's Congress in Beijing. Some high military officials also expressed their angry and resolution to protect China's sovereignty on South China Sea. Why and how had their positions been all changed just a few hours after Secretary Clinton met him at Washington DC? There is no any articles and voices criticizing American to be found in China's media now. Have FM Yang and his partners truly changed?

China does not have sovereignty over the South China Sea. An EEZ is not sovereign territory.

It is not in Chinas interest to establish EEZs as sovereign territory. It would cut off China from the oceans. Look at a map.

 

[Flyman]

familiar with Chinese government's lies and behaviors too long!

We have been familiar with Chinese government's lies and behaviors too long!
Chinese government and military know that the area is EEZ but not China's sovereignty. However, the purpose of claiming its sovereignty on the area is just a test for US administration and military. Unfortunately, neither US President nor State Secretary could refuse China's false claim strictly and clearly in public. Since then, China military and government will smile in their hearts and look down US administration and military. Most of common Chinese people generally understand that there's only one choice can be done while facing such a testing from their competitors: refuse and repeal! Otherwise, the beginning is failure and everything will be failure.

 

[tonyget]

Dude, you are so incredibility brainwashed by western anti-china propaganda.


You know how USNS response when they discover foreign spy ship/aircraft operate in American EEZ ?

We have been familiar with Chinese government's lies and behaviors too long!
Chinese government and military know that the area is EEZ but not China's sovereignty. However, the purpose of claiming its sovereignty on the area is just a test for US administration and military. Unfortunately, neither US President nor State Secretary could refuse China's false claim strictly and clearly in public. Since then, China military and government will smile in their hearts and look down US administration and military. Most of common Chinese people generally understand that there's only one choice can be done while facing such a testing from their competitors: refuse and repeal! Otherwise, the beginning is failure and everything will be failure.

 

[tonyget]

The Chinese behaviour is hypoctitical (protesting at others doing what they do themselves)

What? Who is the one protesting? Wasn't that the Americans protesting?


Americans behaviour is hypoctitical ( expel others spy ship, protesting others expel her spy ship)

contrary to international law.

The US surveillance ship was engaged in research activity without consent.

Article 246

Marine scientific research in the exclusive economic zone and on the continental shelf

2. Marine scientific research in the exclusive economic zone and on the continental shelf shall be conducted with the consent of the coastal State.


The US ship was illegal.

 

[Flyman]

Such a country, abusing its own people, nobody trust it!

UNITED NATIONS: Nobel Peace Prize winners, human rights activists and such celebrities as Harrison Ford and Gwyneth Paltrow are urging China to "stop naming, blaming and verbally abusing" the Dalai Lama.

The Nobel laureates, activists and Hollywood stars have signed a letter from Archbishop Desmond Tutu expressing concern at the deterioration of the human rights situation in Tibet, and the apparent breakdown of talks between the Chinese government and emissaries of the Dalai Lama.

The letter, published on TheCommunity.com, an Internet site for Nobel peace laureates that promotes peace and human rights, was opened to the public for signature on Friday.

Mary Wald, chairman of the site, said when 100,000 people sign the letter it will be hand-delivered to Chinese President Hu Jintao and others.

"This is the time for a massive outpouring of support for the Dalai Lama," Wald said. "He is making some of the strongest statements he has ever made, because the situation for the Tibetans it that critical."

Today on IHT.com

Obama calls for military dialogue with China

Signs of possible deal in Pakistan turmoil

German police question warning on Internet

Nobel peace laureates Elie Wiesel, John Hume, David Trimble, Jody Williams, F.W. de Klerk, Mairead Maguire, Betty Williams and Adolfo Perez Esquivel signed the letter along with about 40 celebrities and rights activists including Ford, Paltrow, Peter Gabriel, Richard Gere, Mia Farrow, Maria Bello, Adam Yauch of the Beastie Boys, Ashley Judd, supermodels Christy Turlington and Naomi Campell and Queen Noor of Jordan.

Earlier this week, the Dalai Lama condemned China's "brutal crackdown" and its harsh rule over the decades, which has turned Tibet into a "hell on earth."

Tensions have spiked ahead of two key anniversaries this week — the 50th anniversary of a failed Tibetan uprising that sent the Dalai Lama into exile and Saturday's one-year anniversary of violent anti-Chinese riots in Lhasa that sparked Tibet's most widespread, sustained revolt in decades.

China claims Tibet as part of its territory, but many Tibetans have chafed under China's rule, which they say deprives them of religious freedom and autonomy. Beijing also blames the Dalai Lama, who is beloved by the Tibetan people, for advancing an agenda for independence and fomenting the anti-government protests in Lhasa.

Tutu told the Dalai Lama in the letter: "We stand with you. You define non-violence and compassion and goodness. Clearly China does not know you. It is our sincere hope that they will."

The South African archbishop, winner of the Nobel Peace Prize in 1984, asked U.N. human rights chief Navi Pillay to visit Tibet with journalists and other observers "and, working with all parties involved, assist in bringing these decades of struggle to a peaceful resolution."

"China is uniquely positioned to impact and affect our world. We ask you to please use this position to improve our world by listening to the voices of the Tibetan people, and creating a new solution for Tibet that allows this culture to flourish," Tutu said. "This will help not only Tibet. It will help China. It will demonstrate to us that China is willing to be a responsible partner in international global affairs."

"Finally, we ask that China stop naming, blaming and verbally abusing one whose life has been devoted to peace. His Holiness the Dalai Lama, a Nobel Peace Prize Laureate, is not simply a holy man. He is recognized throughout the world as one of our few true moral authorities," Tutu said.

___

On the Net: http://www.thecommunity.com

 

[swerve]

Dude, you are so incredibility brainwashed by western anti-china propaganda.
You know how USNS response when they discover foreign spy ship/aircraft operate in American EEZ ?

Yes. It seems that you do not. What, apart from following & monitoring what it does, do you think the US does?

Are you aware of what the PLAN does in the waters of other countries, including their territorial (not EEZ) waters?

 

[OPSSG]

What? Who is the one protesting? Wasn't that the Americans protesting?

Americans behaviour is hypocritical ( expel others spy ship, protesting others expel her spy ship)

Get your facts straight.

Look at China's clumsy attempts to signal its intention to enforce its territorial claim near and around the Spratly Islands in the 1980s. The Spratly Islands, a group of more than 650 reefs, islets, atolls, cays and islands, are wholly or partly claimed by China, Malaysia, Vietnam, Taiwan, the Philippines and Brunei. In 1988, China's navy sank three Vietnamese ships in the Spratly Islands region. China views most of the South China Sea as its area of influence and is willing to engage in aggressive maneuvers whenever it suits China. The BBC and the Independent have reported on the USNS Impeccable incident. This is similar to the April 2001 incident, when a Chinese fighter jet collided in midair with a USN EP-3 and the 24 crew members were detained by the Chinese military for 11 days.

OTOH China in Nov 2002 signed the "Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea" and the 2003 declaration of peace to promote the development of the resources in the disputed islands signed in the Philippines.

Please search for information on China's Strings of Pearls strategy. There is nothing illegal about China's strategy but you need to understand the context of China's fears and ambitions. In particular, you must note China's sensitivity and need for secrecy because of her naval base on Hainan Island. China is not an enemy of the US (as both countries are interdependent) but not quite a friend.

The US surveillance ship was engaged in research activity without consent.

Article 246
Marine scientific research in the exclusive economic zone and on the continental shelf
2. Marine scientific research in the exclusive economic zone and on the continental shelf shall be conducted with the consent of the coastal State.

The US ship was illegal.

How do you know for sure that what the ship did was illegal under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (LoS)? Especially without seeing detailed maps of exactly where the US ship was when confronted.

Do you know what is an Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ)? The LoS provides for EEZs - sea zones generally extending 200 nautical miles (370km) from a nation's coast, giving it special rights over the exploration and use of marine resources. This is complicated where EEZs overlap.

Please note that various countries mentioned above also have EEZ claims in the South China Sea. In fact, to underline Malaysia's claims, Malaysia's PM Abdullah Ahmad Badawi, recently made a visit to Pulau Layang-Layang (an island dive resort with an air strip), which is located about 300 kilometres off the coast of Sabah. Likewise both Philippines and China have also made some unsettling announcements, as counter claims.

If the USNS Impeccable was in China's EEZ, it could have been there perfectly legally - depending on what it was doing. How do you know for sure what the US ship was doing? Further, China also conducts intelligence operations in what the Japanese claim as their EEZ and one of China's submarines had intruded into Japanese territorial waters. Vietnam, has also protested against Chinese military exercises in its EEZ.

Unlike China, US has signed the LoS Convention, but has not ratified it. In this mix we must also factor in the right of ships to navigate and sail in the waters of the South China Sea. So neither the US nor China can claim to be wholly right.

 

[Flyman]

China's playing logic and verbal tricks

China's playing logic and verbal tricks

Including most of Communist party officials, most of Chinese people don't trust Chinese government in almost of all questions in China.

 

[OPSSG]

China's playing logic and verbal tricks

Including most of Communist party officials, most of Chinese people don't trust Chinese government in almost of all questions in China.

Please keep your anti-China preaching in check. ope And support your posts with facts and links to reputable sources.

I am Chinese and living in Southeast Asia, so don't presume to speak for me. :ar15

I have traveled to China quite a few times. I also have met Chinese officials at state events and have made some very good friends who are citizens of China. I am not anti-China but we must look at China's concerns in totality.