Malaysia going Nuclear

[Red]

"Going nuclear" nowadays is - to sum it up - idotic. It's OK for countries that have nuclear power plants to keep them running but it's a shortsighted and a huge waste of money to built them and the needed infrastructure for it up from scratch. Like oil fissible material is a limited resource an the consumption already outruns the production by over 50% - the remaining currently comes from recycled nuclear weapons. This means the price of fissible material will rise, if not skyrock in the next years.

It has not happened and probably would not be the case for decades. Everyone should shelve this together with the list of fantastical stuffs on the to do list which, admittedly, might not happen as well. It is just too common.

2-3 decades henceforth; if the ASEAN countries remain as they are, they will be in trouble.

 

[nevidimka]

When I wrote that the politicians up north needs a reality check, I mean that it does not matter where you place the nuclear reactors as radiation leaks can affect the whole peninsula.

Further,I believe a nuclear plant is not going to blow up like a nuclear bomb. There is a difference.

http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf06.html

In the event that there is global objection to the on-going construction of reactors(assuming it is in the hands of a rogue goverment or not) it would not be too smart to build them so close to a potential foe; would you not think so? Hence; the reference to Syria and Iran. And now, I think you should include Iraq as well.

Spec-ops teams can even take over them.



You mean you do not want to work smart and be competitive? Ever heard of the free market?

Singapore has been sending ships to Persian Gulf long before you sent ships to protect your ships from pirates.
And they will be sending ships to Gulf of Eden as part of US led coalition ships. Feel free to join us.

If the Spec ops team survives that is....
In war time or heightened political situation, vital assets like the Nuke reactor will have heightened security.

Also doesn't matter whether reactors can blow to being bombed or not, trying to bomb a reactor that is close to a Opponents home, is highly risky.

Syria's reactor was still not completed, and Irans as well, which is why Israel is itching to bomb it now.

And you are taking that rogue gov theory way too seriously.

The pirates are a recent serious flashpoint, and from what I can see Singapore decided to send its warship starting from this year. Congrats on joining the world effort.

 

[Red]

If the Spec ops team survives that is....
In war time or heightened political situation, vital assets like the Nuke reactor will have heightened security.

Also doesn't matter whether reactors can blow to being bombed or not, trying to bomb a reactor that is close to a Opponents home, is highly risky.

Syria's reactor was still not completed, and Irans as well, which is why Israel is itching to bomb it now.

You are starting to get my point. You are not going to take such risks by building such critical assets in a location which can be easily penetrated/attacked whilst it is being completed. Will you build your key naval base so in the Straits of Johor facing Singapore? I doubt it.

It is true such places will be heavily defended. Put enough spec ops teams and you will get your goal. Point is; why even put the plant in a position where it can be easily reached in the first place by air, land and sea.

If both sides are not going to do anything about the plants, a war(assuming there is) will still continue. Power can be cut by going for the power grid and lines.

And you are taking that rogue gov theory way too seriously.

It is an assumption that may yet happen.

The pirates are a recent serious flashpoint, and from what I can see Singapore decided to send its warship starting from this year. Congrats on joining the world effort.

Yes. In support of our friends and allies; as is the case in the Persian Gulf since 2002. We were probably asked to join to task force the US is building. There will be greater synergy and organization. Is Malaysia in it?

 

[Tavarisch]

Given the mindset of the Malaysian population, there is no way our government can turn rogue. We Malays are, in general, lazy and unproductive. It's a sad fact that I am reluctant to admit. We have a select few who are doing what they can, but overall their effort is moot. I do not intend to insult my fellow brethren. We make good administrators but we suck at capitalizing in the terms of finance. No single influential leader can make us move without changing our habits and mindset. Believe me, I know.

The only event that I recall Malays moving at all was the 1-4 March of 1946, and even then that was out of necessity. The chances of the so-called PAS turning radical is very low, given that Nik Aziz is also a man of peace. The only militant problem here is Jemaah Islamiah.


The Chinese here don't have a reason to replace our current government and in the event that they do, the PRC is their to back their regime. Indians on the other hand are not that militant, so long as we allow them to practice their religion peacefully, which we are doing.

 

[Red]

I think we should not foreclose any possibility. There are enough elements in PAS to make you think otherwise. I am not sure what the correlation between laziness is to being warmongering and acquiring weapons of mass destruction. It can happen. I will have to disagree about the good administrators part. My personal experience is that it is horrible without some money involved.

 

[Tavarisch]

I think we should not foreclose any possibility. There are enough elements in PAS to make you think otherwise. I am not sure what the correlation between laziness is to being warmongering and acquiring weapons of mass destruction. It can happen. I will have to disagree about the good administrators part. My personal experience is that it is horrible without some money involved.

I can't help but laugh at how true the end part of your comment is.nfloorl:

I wasn't referring to our modern Federation government; it was our pre-Federation governments. Mainly the former Sultanates. Seeing as how Malacca was, at one time, one of the better trading ports of the 15th century. Unless of course, all the bull-crap in our textbooks are propaganda, which sometimes is. (They poorly depict communism in our textbooks. Yes, in most cases it is bad, but the book over-exaggerates. And most importantly, the Sultan is not to blame for the fall of Kedah to Francis Light, when he indeed was the one who was foolish enough to trust the Englishmen)

And laziness does have everything to do with warmongering. If you've got people who just simply won't do anything, nothing can get done. It's much easier if you get some fit bloke to do a job than a lazy bloke. You need people who are always hardworking and on the move if you want a successful revolution.

Acquiring WMDs? Malaysia? I'm sorry, but I'm afraid there are people here who have never heard of the word. You'd be surprised really. They know what nukes are, but when you say WMD.....

 

[Red]

can't help but laugh at how true the end part of your comment is.

I wanted to start a small business up north but I gave up after I realised that to get things running smoothly I would need to leverage on some good contacts and that involves moolah. I did that to a certain extent but I realised later that it is not worth the trouble since I would not make much in the end.

The other annoying thing is that the Traffic Police seems to have an unusual fetish for Singaporean cars and supplanting the courts as roadside Magistrates.

And laziness does have everything to do with warmongering.

I hope this is true. Expensive and powerful weapons and tech in the hands of lazy and ignorant folks sound dangerous enough to me; especially if they think if they are right or become leaders. I know the literati in Malaysia is large but they are being sidelined somewhat.

 

[nevidimka]

You are starting to get my point. You are not going to take such risks by building such critical assets in a location which can be easily penetrated/attacked whilst it is being completed. Will you build your key naval base so in the Straits of Johor facing Singapore? I doubt it.

It is true such places will be heavily defended. Put enough spec ops teams and you will get your goal. Point is; why even put the plant in a position where it can be easily reached in the first place by air, land and sea.

If both sides are not going to do anything about the plants, a war(assuming there is) will still continue. Power can be cut by going for the power grid and lines.

It is an assumption that may yet happen.

Yes. In support of our friends and allies; as is the case in the Persian Gulf since 2002. We were probably asked to join to task force the US is building. There will be greater synergy and organization. Is Malaysia in it?

You are assuming a war scenario between Singapore and Malaysia. If a reactor can be a target, that would mean any power generation facility will be a target. The Politicians probably never envisaged a war scenario when they planned a reactor down south compared to the hugely populated KL area or the north where its quite far from other facilities. Malaysia sees Singapore as Friends you see...

I'm not sure about Persian Gulf. I don't believe Mysia is involved, and I think you know that well too. Malaysia never sees itself as an ally to US that needs to join its every quest everywhere, neither would our help needed. The Somalia problem is a problem that is affecting the world, and since shipping is very important to Malaysia economy, the gov got involved, that too after the kidnapping.

Pas will never be militant, plus they will never control the whole of Mysia.

And btw, Bribery in business happens everywhere. including the US. Some of the big decisions in US history happened through bribes, just see the movie "The Aviator" for example. Its just human nature.


Going back to nuclear power, I think the gov should explore every other source like wind/solar/wave power before they look at nuclear power. Nuclear is just a big headache. Next Tenaga would charge the consumers service charge for storing the deadly waste. What a joke.

 

[Tavarisch]

What does Tenaga NOT charge us with anyway? nfloorl:

Even though it's true that bribery is everywhere, in the US it doesn't happen on the lowest levels of the Government. I mean come on, they ask for 20RM for speeding. Seriously. It insults me.

 

[Red]

The Politicians probably never envisaged a war scenario when they planned a reactor down south compared to the hugely populated KL area or the north where its quite far from other facilities. Malaysia sees Singapore as Friends you see...

Was`nt that partly what I`ve said. They need a reality check. It is undeniably safer to put them far away from prying eyes and certainly potential foes; especially since Malaysia would be without power if it is hit or captured. It becomes a critical installation. Also, I wrote about the possibility of festering global objections whilst the installation is built. Again, it does not make sense to build it so that the on-going construction can be easily halted or bombed. These are important considerations.

I'm not sure about Persian Gulf. I don't believe Mysia is involved, and I think you know that well too. Malaysia never sees itself as an ally to US that needs to join its every quest everywhere, neither would our help needed. The Somalia problem is a problem that is affecting the world, and since shipping is very important to Malaysia economy, the gov got involved, that too after the kidnapping.

I was not talking about the Persian Gulf. Specifically, I asked if Malaysia has joined the US-led task force off the Coast of Eden; CTF-151. That would help ease the burden on the RMN as she has only a few ships to rotate for Ops Fajar currently.

And btw, Bribery in business happens everywhere. including the US. Some of the big decisions in US history happened through bribes, just see the movie "The Aviator" for example. Its just human nature.

Corruption is everywhere. The point is to limit it and not allow it to fester or worst; accept it as a norm. It is no secret that the most competitive and successful countries in the world are also the least corrupted. You do not want to have a society where people routinely sell out on thier own fellow citizens and country. You do not want leaders who are on the payroll of foreign powers; wittingly or otherwise.

 

[nevidimka]

Was`nt that partly what I`ve said. They need a reality check. It is undeniably safer to put them far away from prying eyes and certainly potential foes; especially since Malaysia would be without power if it is hit or captured. It becomes a critical installation. Also, I wrote about the possibility of festering global objections whilst the installation is built. Again, it does not make sense to build it so that the on-going construction can be easily halted or bombed. These are important considerations.

There wont be global objection considering Malaysia is a signatory of CTBT? and its a private energy project. It wont be built underground trying to hide it from the world.

I was not talking about the Persian Gulf. Specifically, I asked if Malaysia has joined the US-led task force off the Coast of Eden; CTF-151. That would help ease the burden on the RMN as she has only a few ships to rotate for Ops Fajar currently.

I don't know.

Corruption is everywhere. The point is to limit it and not allow it to fester or worst; accept it as a norm. It is no secret that the most competitive and successful countries in the world are also the least corrupted. You do not want to have a society where people routinely sell out on thier own fellow citizens and country. You do not want leaders who are on the payroll of foreign powers; wittingly or otherwise.

I concur.

 

[cm07]

rather than go nuclear, i believe that Malaysia will probably be more effective with bio-diesel and similar renewable resources since there's plenty of land to grow such crops. In addition to combating unemployment and forest fires, (with sufficient R&D), it can propel Malaysia to the forefront of renewable energy.

The same theory can apply to Indonesia.

On the other hand, the loss of primary forest and wildlife species, should such agriculture be rampant and uncontrolled, will be devastating and heart breaking to treehuggers.

 

[Dzirhan]

I was not talking about the Persian Gulf. Specifically, I asked if Malaysia has joined the US-led task force off the Coast of Eden; CTF-151. That would help ease the burden on the RMN as she has only a few ships to rotate for Ops Fajar currently.

Sidetracking here, Malaysia is not joining CTF-151 though it is keeping in touch, sharing info etc with it. The RMN mission in Aden is solely to protect/escort ships belonging to Malaysian shipping company MISC which travels through the area.

Personally I think this discussion is a bit moot as I doubt a nuclear power plant will be built anytime soon, we've got a fair number of environmental and anti-nuclear activists here and the public has been largely conditioned to the view that nuclear power plants are undesirable, given the government's popularity problem with the public, it's doubtful any such move will be undertaken.

 

[Chino]

Personally I think this discussion is a bit moot as I doubt a nuclear power plant will be built anytime soon, we've got a fair number of environmental and anti-nuclear activists here and the public has been largely conditioned to the view that nuclear power plants are undesirable, given the government's popularity problem with the public, it's doubtful any such move will be undertaken.

I certainly hope you are right. Though there hasn't been a major accident for some decades, Chernobyl is still fresh on many people's minds.

Like many people keep saying, it's time to cut down on wastage i.e. use less power. Or build green options. The first thing to go should be cars that run on petrol, as alternatives are already available.

Fossil fuel may be killing the planet slowly. But nuclear power may do that in a much shorter time.

 

[Crunchy]

ASEAN/Vietnam's plans

Vietnam is also planning to build 4 nuclear power plants.
Construction of the first will start 2015. It should be completed in 2020.

Rumors said that the Russians got the deal, but recently there are reports that Westinghouse (now part of Toshiba) is pushing ahead.

http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssConsumerGoodsAndRetailNews/idUSHAN4042220090219

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/tech/2008/06/787969/

According to official papers VN plans to develop the full cirlce of civilian nuclear technology for peaceful use.

But the small research reactor in Dalat was running with weapon-capable uranium 'til some years ago, before the material was returned to russia.
Also it is known that VN had/has some low-profile research program on its' SCUD missiles.....


I think no ASEAN member states currently wants to develop some nuclear capabilties, but with civilian use: there is a potential for longterm military use.

 

[Tavarisch]

I certainly hope you are right. Though there hasn't been a major accident for some decades, Chernobyl is still fresh on many people's minds.

Like many people keep saying, it's time to cut down on wastage i.e. use less power. Or build green options. The first thing to go should be cars that run on petrol, as alternatives are already available.

Fossil fuel may be killing the planet slowly. But nuclear power may do that in a much shorter time.

Alternatives? Politicians only speak of alternatives..... Do you honestly think they want them? What's making money for most of them in the first place? (Fossil fuel industry..,. DUH!!!)

I for one though, would definitely like to have alternatives. And why would nuclear power kill the Earth first? It doesn't exhume any hazardous materials except for the waste products at the end of the fission/fusion. If we can learn how to remove nuclear waste properly, it shouldn't be a problem.

Chernobyl was caused by human error and old technology. If we get modern technology, I don't think we are gonna see another Chernobyl in the foreseeable future.

 

[nevidimka]

Alternatives? Politicians only speak of alternatives..... Do you honestly think they want them? What's making money for most of them in the first place? (Fossil fuel industry..,. DUH!!!)

I for one though, would definitely like to have alternatives. And why would nuclear power kill the Earth first? It doesn't exhume any hazardous materials except for the waste products at the end of the fission/fusion. If we can learn how to remove nuclear waste properly, it shouldn't be a problem.

Chernobyl was caused by human error and old technology. If we get modern technology, I don't think we are gonna see another Chernobyl in the foreseeable future.

Correction, Chernobyl was caused by human error and oversight in building the reactor. The technology for the Chernobyl design was enough to avoid that catastrophe.

 

[DavidDCM]

If we can learn how to remove nuclear waste properly, it shouldn't be a problem.

Noone found a proper way of doing this so far. Even burying it 1000 metres down in the earth is not unproblematic. And this stuff remains dangerous for a couple thousand years.
Nuclear energy is a comfortable thing, I agree (better than coal-fired plants or so), but if there are sufficient alternatives (yes, that word again ), then they should be pursued rather than nuclear. Malaysia is sunny and riverine country, isn't it possible to make a great amount of power by solar and hydro-electricity? More stuff like the Bakun dam project.

 

[nevidimka]

Noone found a proper way of doing this so far. Even burying it 1000 metres down in the earth is not unproblematic. And this stuff remains dangerous for a couple thousand years.
Nuclear energy is a comfortable thing, I agree (better than coal-fired plants or so), but if there are sufficient alternatives (yes, that word again ), then they should be pursued rather than nuclear. Malaysia is sunny and riverine country, isn't it possible to make a great amount of power by solar and hydro-electricity? More stuff like the Bakun dam project.

Yea, many rivers, but also more importantly, much valuable forest covering these rivers. The amount of forest/habitat lost due to the sinking is unacceptable. Its not like we don't have enough problem with Illegal logging already. The Bakun farce is due to this environment damage.

Solar is a good alternative, But I'm still sceptical about the power generation capability for this technology. Can it compete with Hydro or Nuclear reactor capacity?

 

[DavidDCM]

Compete, no, nothing can compete in efficiency with a nuclear power plant I think.
A big solar power plant would need a really big area where you raise these solar panels. It's more a thing for individual households. You can install these things on your roof and in this way create a certain amount of your electricity yourself. This lowers the overall amount of electricity needed in the country, if enough people participate.
This concept has become quite popular here in Germany during the last ~10 years. Today you see many houses with solar panels on the roof like in the photo that I attached. And in Malaysia there's like 10 times more sun than here in Germany. So a solar panel would much more effective there. But I really have no idea how much it would really bring.