About the pros and cons Aussie Digger mentioned.
AESA radar : Yes from 2012, with export permission to Greece, according to Dassault. That also means that the French side offered the F4 configuration to Greece.
Not that Dassault actually has an operational AESA radar, the first examples of the RBE2 are in LRIP, but are most definitely not operational.
The F4 standard is "yet" to be developed. Therefore any acquirer takes on significant risk in acquiring an orphan aircraft (an aircraft in a configuration NOT operated by any other Country).
The RBE2 AESA is also only intended for future Rafale examples. Even Dassault admits there is NO plan to equip existing French Rafale aircraft with this radar.
In my opinion, this shows that the radar has been developed specifically to improve the chances of Rafale success in markets where they are forced to compete against fighter variants with CURRENT operational AESA radar systems, (F-16 and F/A-18E/F variants and MiG-35's with new AESA's).
Hardly a risk free approach, IMHO...
Towed decoy : Not yet, but i don't know how useful it is in dogfights above the aegean sea.
Air Combat has been increasingly moving away from "dogfights" into the "Beyond Visual Range" since the development of long ranged radars and effective beyond visual ranged air to air weapons. Both Countries are equipped with AMRAAM missiles and Greece maintains Mica AAM's apparently too.
Both are effective BVR weapons and if you believe that Turkey and Greece would be forgoing the capability inherent in such weapons, I'd suggest you might want to read up a bit on ATA combat. NO pilot wants to get into a "knife fight" if it all possible.
On a non-LO airframe, an active towed decoy is rapidly becoming a MUST have item.
USAF weapons and sensors : HAF is always looking for something different than Turkish Air Force has and which is an operator of only USAF sensors and weapons, that's one of the reasons we have Mirage 2000 and F-16's
Don't you think it is a tremendous advantage to have something your opponent doesn't have?
This could be done by choosing a Gripen or Typhoon combo with ASRAAM/IRIS-T and Meteor ATA combo too. Hence why I asked earlier what specific advantages Rafale has over these other fighters? Some weapons and sensor commonality with M2K fighters in existing inventory is about it as far as I can see and the M2K's will be replaced sooner or later...
As to wishing to differentiate itself from Turkey, the fact that the F-16, AMRAAM and AIM-9 Sidewinder combo is comprising (and attracting the newest existing orders) the bulk of the HAF air to air combat force, I don't really see this as a relevent question...
Is it an advantage? Perhaps depending on the efficacy of the differing platforms... Whichever platform HAF chooses, it will be differentiating itself from Turkey as Turkey is moving onto the F-35 VLO fighter. I would suggest HAF would be looking for a more potent ATA combo than it presently maintains in order to strategically counter such a move. I'm not sure the Rafale necessarily provides such a capability.
Personally I think HAF would be wise to look at the Eurofighter/ASRAAM/IRIS-T/Meteor combo and look at eventually replacing it's F-16's over time with the F-35 as well.
(could you please explain me what you mean?
) If it means that France is the only country to operate the aircrafts, i would like to remind you that Greece ordered the Mirage F1 in 1974 just a year after it became operational in France. If this sounds stupid, it didn't proved stupid in the Mirage F1 case. Also we were one of the first countries which ordered the Mirage 2000 (1985), which also didn't proved so stupid.
No, but other Countries subsequently ordered those aircraft and there was a significant support base to draw upon. Rafale is ONLY operated by France and in a significantly different configuration than that offered to the HAF. In a country that already maintains a significantly different fighter force, adding new types is going to be expensive, but worse if you operate an orphan. Eurofighter, F-16, Gripen or even F/A-18 Super Hornet if you wanted, offer significantly greater support bases.
Aerodynamic performance equal to or greater than Eurofighter Typhoon : Maybe but who really can prove that? Have the two aircrafts dogfighted?
They have on exercise and successes have been claimed on both sides. I don't think too many outside France, truly believe the Rafale is a better performing aircraft than the Eurofighter, however...
Cost : that's something interesting, according to French side, if we choose the Rafale they will be built in Greek factories (eg. HAI), that means something beyond cost as money themselves, it means more jobs, more production and transfer of technology.
Indeed, it means significantly MORE cost and for a build run of 30 or so aircraft (at least initially) I don't see this as a realistic prospect...
Unfortunately (for others) or...fortunately (for us) HAF has lots of useful French weapons, including some Scalp EG and some AM39 Exocet Block 2.
To tell you the truth i don't know if those weapons can be used from other than French aircrafts, but on the other hand if they could be used i would have known if a HAF F-16 bl 52+ could carry some.
Wouldn't it be ashame if we didn't have the way to use those weapons?
Another name for the Scalp EG is the Storm Shadow, a missile that is intended to be operated from the Eurofighter by the RAF and the Italian Air Force... However I have no doubt that if HAF wished, the missile could be relatively easily integrated on ANY modern fighter it chose to operate...
Exocet's eh? I'm pretty sure RAF Tornados can be armed with them too, meaning Eurofighter could if necessary...
About the types of the competitors i am sure that we are looking for an even improved version of F-16 bl 52+ and the EF2000 tranch 3, if it comes into production.
About the logistics, if there was a real logistics problem i am sure this tender would have other options and candidates
Perhaps, which is why I asked my initial questions...
