U.S. to make final decision on future F-22.

[swerve]

I thought the USAF will only have 129 F-15Cs unless the 140 or so F-15s that where grounded last year are back in service and not retired.

Mostly returned to service in February this year - but 137 is rather close to the number which were found to have non-standard longerons but cleared to fly. Perhaps not a coincidence. I think that without remedial work (which would cost money, & take them out of service for a while), they probably have a reduced fatigue life, & may need frequent inspection.

Report on returning to service

 

[Haavarla]

On the surface, it looks like US air force is trying to focusing on quality and not quantity. IMHO, what is not said is more important, which is to keep the F22 production line open long enough before they introduce upgrades to the F22.

USAF shouldn't be suprised if the numbers are shrinking more in the future. With Obama in the chair, chances are that he will do what it takes to get the national budget on the + side. That could very well end with less fighters for the USAF and less funding to the defence budged in the future.

 

[Aussie Digger]

I thought the USAF will only have 129 F-15Cs unless the 140 or so F-15s that where grounded last year are back in service and not retired.

I just remember reading from insidedefense.com that once retiring the 137 F-15Cs there will only be 129 F-15Cs plus the 217 F-15Es and 183 F-22s.

The USAF will be left with 1100 F-16s not 2000 by the way.

There goal is to use the savings to accelerate the F-35, keep the F-22 in production, modernize bombers and buy more UAVs.

USAF's own website outlines that there are in fact 522x F-15C/D Eagles in-service.

http://www.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=101

and 217x F-15E Strike Eagles in-service.

http://www.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?fsID=102


The plan was to keep more than 170x of the "Golden Eagles" (AESA equipped late model F-15C's) in-service to complement the F-22 over the long term anyway.

 

[irtusk]

i think the take-home point is that while other potential F-35 buyers have gone wobbly, the USAF is demonstrating it's commitment to the plane

 

[stigmata]

USAF has no other choise but to continue, while other countries can choose an alternative, it is flat out impossible from every point of view that USAF could choose.
It is too late to develop an alternative, and choosing a foreign alternative for USAF ?? yeah, did'nt think so

 

[irtusk]

there are always alternatives

F-22s, golden eagles, F-16 block whatever, ucavs, even superhornets (please no)

if they thought the F-35 wasn't any better than what they have now, they could just buy late-model F-16s

yet they have flat out REFUSED to buy ANY legacy fighters

they see that the F-35 is SO MUCH BETTER than what they have now, there's no point in buying more of that garbage and instead are trying to help push the F-35 as far forward as possible

 

[OPSSG]

... other potential F-35 buyers have gone wobbly, the USAF is demonstrating it's commitment to the plane

IMHO, the other buyers (already signed up) continue support the F-35 progam. One of the disputes for UK with the US is to ensure that there is continued funding for the GE/Rolls Royce engine for the F-35 and the sharing of source codes.

The concern for many allies is the final cost for the F-35, after factoring in the simulators, support costs and spare engines... We need to have a clear idea of the cost escalations in planning for the funding necessary to introduce a new aircraft type into service.

 

[F-15 Eagle]

USAF shouldn't be suprised if the numbers are shrinking more in the future. With Obama in the chair, chances are that he will do what it takes to get the national budget on the + side. That could very well end with less fighters for the USAF and less funding to the defence budged in the future.

Alright I'm getting sick and tried of People saying Obama is going to cut the military, he is going to kill the air force and what not its all B.S. Obama is no different then McCain, Obama is even thinking about having a republican for a defense secretary. But the rules are that no politics are allowed so I'm not going to go any farther.

USAF's own website outlines that there are in fact 522x F-15C/D Eagles in-service.

http://www.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=101

and 217x F-15E Strike Eagles in-service.

http://www.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?fsID=102


The plan was to keep more than 170x of the "Golden Eagles" (AESA equipped late model F-15C's) in-service to complement the F-22 over the long term anyway.

Does the USAF still plan on keeping the 170 Golden Eagles?

So the USAF after retiring 137 F-15s will still have 530 or more F-15s. I don't know why some sources where saying on 129 F-15Cs will be left.

 

[swerve]

The total includes F-15E.

I presume they started with the current inventory of F-15C, deducted the aircraft temporarily grounded last year, then deducted another 137.

 

[Totoro]

Does anyone know the exact breakdown between F15 models? We know there are between 223 and 217 E models in use (depending on various sources) but how many A, B, C and D models are in use with USAF?

 

[baranek]

some 440 F-15 A/B/C/D are curently in service

 

[Totoro]

I meant how many A models, how many B, how many C and how many D models are in service... Is that figure public?

 

[F-15 Eagle]

I meant how many A models, how many B, how many C and how many D models are in service... Is that figure public?

I think like 100 A/B and 350 C/D. As for exact numbers that you are asking for, I have no idea.

 

[F-15 Eagle]

The total includes F-15E.

I presume they started with the current inventory of F-15C, deducted the aircraft temporarily grounded last year, then deducted another 137.

Ah I get so the real number will be 300 F-15C and 217 F-15E plus however many F-22s are in service after the retirement of the 137 F-15.

I don't get why they deducted the 140 F-15s grounded last year because they are now back in service.

 

[swerve]

I don't get why they deducted the 140 F-15s grounded last year because they are now back in service.

Because whoever did the calculation didn't know that?

 

[F-15 Eagle]

Because whoever did the calculation didn't know that?

That is a good possibility. Even though they have been back in service for a year now.

 

[f-22fan12]

Which will still leave the USAF with 600 odd F-15's, 2000 F-16's and around 300 A-10's.

Yeah, they're hurtin all right...

I think they will be hurting if they don't get more F-22s. Keep in mink many of those planes are old and some of the F-15s have structural problems. The USAF should come up to some sort of agreement with Congress to retire 300 fighters and then use that saved money to buy more F-22s. The problem is with the economy tanking, a new adminstration or Congress is even less likley to support buying more F-22s. That is unfortunate because a short term economic problem should not hinder the purchase of a long term investment, like the F-22. More F-22s should be purchased. I think the new chief of staff was right when he said the USAF needed more that 183 but less than 381. A sweet spot could be 275???

 

[F-15 Eagle]

I think they will be hurting if they don't get more F-22s. Keep in mink many of those planes are old and some of the F-15s have structural problems. The USAF should come up to some sort of agreement with Congress to retire 300 fighters and then use that saved money to buy more F-22s. The problem is with the economy tanking, a new administration or Congress is even less likely to support buying more F-22s. That is unfortunate because a short term economic problem should not hinder the purchase of a long term investment, like the F-22. More F-22s should be purchased. I think the new chief of staff was right when he said the USAF needed more that 183 but less than 381. A sweet spot could be 275???

275 F-22s and a faster building rate of the F-35 should solve the problems. I agree this economic mess is not as bad as people think it is and the price of not buying new fighters could be a danger to national security. Lets just hope Gates is not in office next year.

 

[Feanor]

The crisis is liable to be far worse then people think actually. All the measures currently taken to control it are temporary band aids aimed at stopping everything from imploding on the spot. The real issues of restructuring the global banking system is still ahead.

Anyways I think that the F-22 procurement was originally cut to 276, and only later to 179. Finally additional funds were added for 4 more. Giving us the current number of 183.

 

[StevoJH]

The crisis is liable to be far worse then people think actually. All the measures currently taken to control it are temporary band aids aimed at stopping everything from imploding on the spot. The real issues of restructuring the global banking system is still ahead.

Yes, they are trying to solve a problem caused by bad debt by borrowing more money.

Anyway, back on topic, recently the USAF stood down a wing of F-16's so that the wing could be rerolled as a Reaper Wing. Some of these Units that would be stood down due to the decrease in fighter numbers could be stood back up as UAV Squadrons.