PAK-FA / T-50: Russian 5th Generation Fighter

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aaaditya

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Here's a strange article from arms-tass.su which claims that 1) India will be using the variant of the PAK-FA as Russia, with the exception of possible minor changes, and 2) that the PAK-FA will begin trials in 2 years. Is this another extension of the date or just a mistake?

http://arms-tass.su/?page=article&aid=61251&cid=25
hey buddy here is the indian version of the same article:

http://indiatoday.digitaltoday.in/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=16398&issueid=75

The Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) being jointly developed by India and Russia will look substantially different for the two countries. While the Russian version will be a single-pilot fighter, the Indian variant will have a twin-seat configuration based on its operational doctrine which calls for greater radius of combat operations.
"The Indian FGFA is significantly different from the Rusisan aircraft because a second pilot means the addition of another dimension, development of wings and control surfaces," said Ashok Baweja, chairman of the Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL), which is developing the aircraft alongwith Russia's Sukhoi design bureau.
Speaking to mediapersons at the eighth Indo-Russian Inter-Governmental Commission on Military-Technical Cooperation (IRIGC), Baweja said that both sides had moved closer towards identifying the key areas of participation in the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft Programme (FGFA) for which both countries had signed a joint agreement in 2007. India would bring into play its expertise in composites, lightweight high-strength materials that significantly bring down the weight of an aeronautical platform.
The Russian aircraft is thus called because it is a successor to virtually every fourth and 4.5 generation fighter aircraft like the MiG-29 and Su-30 MKI in the inventories of both countries. It has been dubbed the 'Raptorski' for its similarity to the US F-22 Raptor that entered squadron service this year.



The first prototype of the Sukhoi Design Bureau's PAK-FA 'T-50' fighter aircraft is set to fly in Russia next year. "We are in the process of defining what part of the contract to give to the Indian production agencies,'' said Alexey Fedorov, president of the United Aircraft Corporation, the umbrella organization of Russian fixed-wing aircraft manufacturers. Fedorov said that the process of identifying the participation of Indian partners in the FGFA would be completed by the year-end or in the shortest possible time.
According to Baweja, it features stealth, or a drastic reduction in the aircraft's radar cross-section or 'signature', and the ability to 'super cruise' or jet engines that fly stealthily without engaging noisy afterburners even at supersonic speeds, embedded weapons with the capability to engage multiple ground, sea and air targets and seamless communication between the fighter, other aircraft and ground stations.
Baweja said that the first prototype of the FGFA was to fly next year with the ALF-31 FP engine. He said he would want an engine that had 15 to 20 per cent more growth than this engine in the final aircraft configuration. The FGFA is to enter squadron service by 2015 and will replace at least three classes of aircraft in the IAF.
The joint-venture borrows heavily from the success of the Brahmos project but seems fated to repeat its story. By the 1990s, Russia, the world's only operator of supersonic surface-to-surface missiles, had already perfected the Yakhont missile but lacked the funds to pursue its development. Indian stepped in with the finance in 1998 and the missile was re-launched as the Brahmos.
Designs for the PAK-FA have already been frozen by the Sukhoi design bureau, which means that Indian aircraft engineers have already missed out on the critical knowledge curve of aircraft design. Also, the unequal status of the Indian and Russian aviation industries means India will be the junior partner contributing very little except finance. "So if we have missed out on the design phase, we have to analyse the cost-benefits of acquiring only super cruise and stealth technology for $ 10 billion," asks Air Vice Marshal Kak.


though i believe that even a small participation in this project would be widely beneficial to the indian aviation industry,particular emphasis should be given to the joint development of the engine ,and indian should be involved from the early stages of the engine development,what india lacks today is the requisite competence in engine design and develpment.
 

yess

New Member
aaaditya
What is "indian" version? the twin seater is a export version of PAK-FA which both brazil and india will use..
 

Salty Dog

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Designs for the PAK-FA have already been frozen by the Sukhoi design bureau, which means that Indian aircraft engineers have already missed out on the critical knowledge curve of aircraft design. Also, the unequal status of the Indian and Russian aviation industries means India will be the junior partner contributing very little except finance. "So if we have missed out on the design phase, we have to analyse the cost-benefits of acquiring only super cruise and stealth technology for $ 10 billion," asks Air Vice Marshal Kak.

though i believe that even a small participation in this project would be widely beneficial to the indian aviation industry,particular emphasis should be given to the joint development of the engine ,and indian should be involved from the early stages of the engine development,what india lacks today is the requisite competence in engine design and develpment.
Looks like India is going to get cut short in the PAK-FA development. I would not be satisfied with just the engine side. Perhaps India should concentrate on the MCA and leave the PAK-FA project altogether.
 

Salty Dog

Defense Professional
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aaaditya
What is "indian" version? the twin seater is a export version of PAK-FA which both brazil and india will use..
Where did you get this information that Brazil will use the PAK-FA? The Brazilian agreement with Russia is to participate in the development process only, IMHO most likely as "observer".
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
aaditiya I don't understand why you think it's the same article. They're two different articles. I was pointing out that the article I found seems to provide notably different information then other sources.
 

aayiliam

New Member
No i dont think this will be the PAK FA as russia has given up the idea of forward swept wings. Both the US and Russia experimented with this design but both later gave up the IDEA. If i think correctly the design will be similar to current sukhois and the weapons bay and some fine tuning in reduction of RCS will be done
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
On an interesting side note there are talks about resuming Su-25UBM and BM production at the Ulan-Ude aircraft factory. The production run might be a minor one to replace losses from the war and some of the older machines, or maybe an older one to replace the entire generation of older Su-25s. The article also mentions a few potential exports.

http://arms-tass.su/?page=article&aid=61282&cid=24
 

nevidimka

New Member
On an interesting side note there are talks about resuming Su-25UBM and BM production at the Ulan-Ude aircraft factory. The production run might be a minor one to replace losses from the war and some of the older machines, or maybe an older one to replace the entire generation of older Su-25s. The article also mentions a few potential exports.

http://arms-tass.su/?page=article&aid=61282&cid=24
This is the wrong thread for this news. Its Russian 5th gen fighter thread.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Sorry. Just didn't know where else to put it, and it doesn't seem significant enough to warrant it's own thread. By the way the PAK-FA is now there on the knaapo.ru page. However you can't click on it or get a description. There is a limited view picture of it though. Given that it's already started assembly of the plane, it's quite possible that the shot is what it will actually look like. To see it got o knaapo.ru and then click on the military airplanes flash link on the front page. It will give you a list of planes with a limited view picture of each. You can click on the other planes to get their description, but you can't click on the PAK-FA.
 

nevidimka

New Member
No problem, you could have put it in the Georgian war thread, as it seems to be connected to the war loss.

I'll check out the Pak Fa pic later when I have the bandwidth.. :D
 

hellfire

Member
Sorry. Just didn't know where else to put it, and it doesn't seem significant enough to warrant it's own thread. By the way the PAK-FA is now there on the knaapo.ru page. However you can't click on it or get a description. There is a limited view picture of it though. Given that it's already started assembly of the plane, it's quite possible that the shot is what it will actually look like. To see it got o knaapo.ru and then click on the military airplanes flash link on the front page. It will give you a list of planes with a limited view picture of each. You can click on the other planes to get their description, but you can't click on the PAK-FA.
well is that a teaser photo, look like a raptor nose.but is it called PAK FA or PAC FA like mentioned by knaapo.
http://www.knaapo.ru/eng/index.wbp# english version.
 

nevidimka

New Member
Sorry to burst the bubble, That PAK FA pic has been circulating the net for years now. Its not the real PAK FA I belive. Its some artist impressions based on the Raptor. Just google for PAK FA pics in the internet, you will find the full pic of that.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
It's on the official page and assembly of the prototype (which means an airframe has been decided one) has already begun. That's why that may be an accurate picture (or it may not, we won't really know until we see it).
 

aayiliam

New Member
I have a question whether India will get the technologies that are put into the PAK FA or will it just get the designs on how to make the airframe and rest of the components like the radar, the weapons etc have to be brought from russia and integrated. because as far as i know the plane is designed by one company the radar to be fitted is with a seperate company and so are the weapons.
 

Salty Dog

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
It's on the official page and assembly of the prototype (which means an airframe has been decided one) has already begun. That's why that may be an accurate picture (or it may not, we won't really know until we see it).
Sorry mate. I must have missed something. Please provide the source for the "official page".

Cheers.
 
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