kirov class battle cruiser

[nevidimka]

The following was posted by Star 49 @ forum.keypublishing.co.uk/index.php earlier today.



Sounds like a full modernisation to me, replacement of the S-300 with S-400?

I think there's some confusion here? Admiral Nakhimov is the second Kirov class that's already put back into service with the Northern fleet.

I thought we were talking about the 3rd Kirov class that's awaiting repairs and upgrades which is the Admiral Lazarev (Frunze).


Your article is dated sept, so it should be last year. That would mean the granit was replaced with a new type missile. I'm curious as to what kind of a missile is this? Is it a development of a more advanced granit type ASM? or Tomahawk class cruise missiles? The information on this I belive would be very hard to find.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirov_class_battlecruiser


fate of Frunze : from wiki

Admiral Lazarev was laid up at Severomorsk for several years before being decommissioned in July 1999. As of 2004 it was reported that she was awaiting recommissioning into the Russian Navy's Pacific Fleet, pending release of funds for the necessary overhaul

 

[Salty Dog]

Admiral Lazarev is probably still laid-up at Severomorsk.

Admiral Nakhimov is still undergoing refit and refueling. It should be some time before Nakhimov is active again.

During 2008 shipbuilders were preparing for "discharge of reactor active zone" - that is the removal of the ship's reactor's core and replacement with a fresh core. Such a refueling operation could require several years to complete, suggesting that the Admiral Nakhimov was unlikely to return to active service prior to 2010.

The replacement for the SS-N-19 GRANIT (NATO SHIPWRECK) will most likely be the SS-NX-26 ONIXS.

 

[AegisFC]

Interesting tidbit from our friend Galrahn over at his blog.

http://informationdissemination.blogspot.com/2008/09/return-of-battlecruiser.html

http://www.barentsobserver.com/the-return-of-admiral-nakhimov.4484996.html

Too bad it doesn't say what the Granits will be replaced with. Personally I think these ships are a waste, they look good on paper but that's about it, you'd get more use out of a couple of small boys.

 

[nevidimka]

Admiral Lazarev is probably still laid-up at Severomorsk.

Admiral Nakhimov is still undergoing refit and refueling. It should be some time before Nakhimov is active again.



The replacement for the SS-N-19 GRANIT (NATO SHIPWRECK) will most likely be the SS-NX-26 ONIXS.

How does a shorter ranged and certainly smaller warhead of the P-800 be an upgrade/replacement for the more deadly Shipwreaks?


And regarding the Nakhimov, global security says it wont be in service until 2010, but in Wiki it says :

Undergoing repairs at Sevmash since 1999. Completed ahead of schedule in 2005, returned to active service in the Northern fleet.

When was the page updated in Globalsecurity?

 

[Salty Dog]

And regarding the Nakhimov, global security says it wont be in service until 2010, but in Wiki it says :

Undergoing repairs at Sevmash since 1999. Completed ahead of schedule in 2005, returned to active service in the Northern fleet.

When was the page updated in Globalsecurity?

Wiki references Globalsecurity and that material has dates for May 2008, relatively recent.

Aegis FC references an article in the Barents Observers (May 2008) which says the Admiral Nakhimov has been docked for the last nine years.

Your call . . . .

 

[Salty Dog]

How does a shorter ranged and certainly smaller warhead of the P-800 be an upgrade/replacement for the more deadly Shipwreaks?

If the P-800 (SS-NX-26) is not a suitable replacement for the P-700 (SS-N-19), then of the new generation SSMs which one is?

 

[tphuang]

If the P-800 (SS-NX-26) is not a suitable replacement for the P-700 (SS-N-19), then of the new generation SSMs which one is?

another missile that's as large as P-700? Those things are humongous, that's why they go far and so fast. And personally, I think conceptually at least, Club is a far more dangerous missile.

 

[Feanor]

Interesting tidbit from our friend Galrahn over at his blog.

http://informationdissemination.blogspot.com/2008/09/return-of-battlecruiser.html

http://www.barentsobserver.com/the-return-of-admiral-nakhimov.4484996.html

Too bad it doesn't say what the Granits will be replaced with. Personally I think these ships are a waste, they look good on paper but that's about it, you'd get more use out of a couple of small boys.

They are practically the only Russian ships to carry theater SAMs, not to mention the huge arsenal of ASMs. Morever, other then the Kuznetsov, they're the only Russian ships capable of being the head of a large task force.

another missile that's as large as P-700? Those things are humongous, that's why they go far and so fast. And personally, I think conceptually at least, Club is a far more dangerous missile.

Once they get it to hit targets right.

 

[Spacearrow99]

They are practically the only Russian ships to carry theater SAMs, not to mention the huge arsenal of ASMs. Morever, other then the Kuznetsov, they're the only Russian ships capable of being the head of a large task force.



Once they get it to hit targets right.

Feanor, you must of forgot about the Slavas.

 

[nevidimka]

Wiki references Globalsecurity and that material has dates for May 2008, relatively recent.

Aegis FC references an article in the Barents Observers (May 2008) which says the Admiral Nakhimov has been docked for the last nine years.

Your call . . . .

Yes, your right, the article is recent. I think the Nakhimov is not ready yet. But I thought a few pages ago, there were news/discussions saying that it was put back into service into the North fleet. I think I got confused.

 

[nevidimka]

If the P-800 (SS-NX-26) is not a suitable replacement for the P-700 (SS-N-19), then of the new generation SSMs which one is?

Exactly. I dont belive there has been a development to make a ASM better than the Granits. So why replace them with a shorter ranged and certainly smaller warhead capable Yakhonts? For a ship as important as the Kirov's, its the Granits that gives it the sting ans protection. Putting in Yakhonts which are shorter ranged I believe increases its risks.

Plus I just love the team work of a salvo of Granits are capable of.

 

[Feanor]

Feanor, you must of forgot about the Slavas.

There are what, two Slavas? With one more unfinished one that there are talks about purchasing from Ukraine. There are 3 Kirovs already here. Two are almost operational, and one requires some repairs, but can be gotten back into service within a few years. Restarting Slava production, or developing a new cruiser for the purpose, would take many years and much more money. Not to mention they would pack far less punch.

 

[Spacearrow99]

There are what, two Slavas? With one more unfinished one that there are talks about purchasing from Ukraine. There are 3 Kirovs already here. Two are almost operational, and one requires some repairs, but can be gotten back into service within a few years. Restarting Slava production, or developing a new cruiser for the purpose, would take many years and much more money. Not to mention they would pack far less punch.

There are three operatinal Slavas in the Russian Navy. The Kirov's far power is mass, but they're far more expensive to maintain then the Slavas. The Russians are focusing their surface escort resources on smaller more versatile vessels, like the Admiral Gorshkov frigate project.

 

[StevoJH]

There are three operatinal Slavas in the Russian Navy. The Kirov's far power is mass, but they're far more expensive to maintain then the Slavas. The Russians are focusing their surface escort resources on smaller more versatile vessels, like the Admiral Gorshkov frigate project.

In the Russian/Soviet context though, Kirovs are not escorts, they are capital ships, they along with the carrier show the "prestige" of the Russian Navy similar to how the battleships of old were, or the Aircraft carriers of other countries. The slava's however, are the Russian equivalent of the Tico's, they are large anti-aircraft escorts with a massive Anti-Surface missile loadout in addition, which actually makes them more versatile then the Burke's or Tico's, though probably less advanced in terms of air defense (how does S-300 compare with Aegis/SM-2?)

 

[tphuang]

They are practically the only Russian ships to carry theater SAMs, not to mention the huge arsenal of ASMs. Morever, other then the Kuznetsov, they're the only Russian ships capable of being the head of a large task force.



Once they get it to hit targets right.

yeah, that's why I saw conceptually, their real performance hasn't been too great.

 

[nevidimka]

Y is the club conceptually more leathal? And I thought its problems were related to indian export models only.

 

[Feanor]

Y is the club conceptually more leathal? And I thought its problems were related to indian export models only.

The problems were so bad that not a single one of them hit their intended targets. The submarine had to be sent back to Russia for repairs and refit.

 

[Gollevainen]

The proplem was in the subs and missiles Inertial guidance system interacting to each others. The subs targeting system gave wrong paramets to the missile and thus the missile tought it was in the target when it's gyroscopic targeting indicated that it was on target due the false paramets. So the missile itself had no proplems, it was more in the submarines targeting system.

Embarrasing but still only theeting proplems. In the "good old days" every single weaponsystem in Soviet Union had to go trough extensive trialling and testing before it was accepted operational service. When Soviet Union collapsed so did this "code of conduct" alongside it. Many russian weapon firms were left with already designed but not tested and trialled weapons which they started to market offbroad. Club is good example of them. It was designed in the Soviet days but saw daylight only in new russia. However the ships which would have fielded the missilesystem (Pr. 11990 Anchar for example) were cancelled and as the state of the russian navy was quite bad, there were no possipilites to test the new system. So the testing and trialling was done alongside the export frigates. Not neccericalyl the best compo...

 

[Firehorse]

This article is in Russian, but you can click on pictures to expand them.
http://www.popmech.ru/part/?articleid=4465&rubricid=7

Armaments comparison table among Kirov class ships-
http://vs.milrf.ru/armament/marine/kr_pr1144.htm

Given the current trends, I will not be surprised if one or more reserve Kirovs get recomissioned in the next few years.

 

[nevidimka]

I believe they are already working on it. If I'm not mistaken, Admiral Nakhimov is the next 1 being worked on. They are in the process of refueling its nuclear engine IIRC. But that will take some time.

And in regards to Peter the Great, I believe they would have reached venezuela? IF so, Are there any new pics on the new deployment exercise? Including the Mediterranean stopovers?