Brazil building own nuclear submarine

[Firehorse]

Lately they were forming regional groups for closer integration- but without roads connecting them how are they going to integrate their economies? New roads will have to be built, just like in SE Asia now. So, as Brazil develops her West, it will make sense to eventually use Pac. ports of other countries.

That interview was a good read! The idea of using SSN as a deterrant to keep others out of EEZ may work for a while, but if you can't see it, IMHO, it won't be as effective as MPA, CG & CP boats. How many total SSNs do they need to keep just 1 at sea at all times? If their EEZ is so big, 1 such sub may not be enough!

 

[Salty Dog]

That interview was a good read! The idea of using SSN as a deterrant to keep others out of EEZ may work for a while, but if you can't see it, IMHO, it won't be as effective as MPA, CG & CP boats. How many total SSNs do they need to keep just 1 at sea at all times? If their EEZ is so big, 1 such sub may not be enough!

Good you see this. An SSN is totaly the wrong platform for EEZ patrol work. MPA will cover quite a bit of air and waterspace. Ships and patrol boats will be able to conduct VBSS.

I just wish they would wise up and kill the SSN program. However, they will stubbornly hold on to this then we will see how effective it will be on an EEZ patrol mission.

Brazilian SSKs routinely spend their time in port as well as the rest of the fleet. On rare occasions, ships get underway for patrol. Mostly they remain in port on duty as a "ready ship" should they need to get underway to respond to a situation. The operating budget is quite small.

 

[Firehorse]

IMO, 3-5 SSKs with AIP could protect/monitor EEZ for le$$ than a 2-3 SSNs, and if they want to use stealth to sneak up on violators, SSK is even quiter!
I think their main, unstated goal is to use SSN as a stepping stone to SSGN/BN. They want to be a superpower in the Southern Hemisphere with a blue water navy. All this talk of using SSNs for EEZ patrols and status enchancement is just a smokescreen.
BTW, do they have necessary infrastructure for nuclear boats?

 

[Salty Dog]

I think their main, unstated goal is to use SSN as a stepping stone to SSGN/BN. They want to be a superpower in the Southern Hemisphere with a blue water navy. All this talk of using SSNs for EEZ patrols and status enchancement is just a smokescreen.

You are way on the wrong track on this one mate. Brazil is already a superpower economically and militarily in South America. Brazil will not even consider an SSBN or any strategic nuclear weapon capability. Not sure how you came up with that one.

 

[ASFC]

This SSN is a pride piece-aimed at sticking Brazil up 'there' with the other Major Naval Powers, not some stepping stone to an SSGN/SSBN (building such Missile subs would almost defintely trigger an Arms race which no one in South America could afford).

This money is better diverted to other projects as other have stated-I would have thought the ability to secure your own coastline and operate a proper Carrier Task Group better for a countries pride and security than an SSN that may never be built!

 

[harryriedl]

You are way on the wrong track on this one mate. Brazil is already a superpower economically and militarily in South America. Brazil will not even consider an SSBN or any strategic nuclear weapon capability. Not sure how you came up with that one.

that for that interview it was interesting how far away they are from anything approaching building this mythical SSN, They haven't got a power plant they haven't miniaturized it and they haven't got a hull. It should be canceled and with some of the money they should buy NZ skyhawks as source of spares as the A4 availability is frankly crap and San Paolo sounds like a maintenance pig. It sounds a bit like the Indians being given an offer they can't refuse for an old carrier without realizing how much breaks down

 

[swerve]

It sounds a bit like the Indians being given an offer they can't refuse for an old carrier without realizing how much breaks down

Please, not that myth again!

No offer was made. When Robert Gates was asked about it by a journalist, he clearly thought it was a wind-up. The story seems to have originated with an Indian journalist saying on the internet "What if the USA offered . . . .?", & others picking it up & turning it, via "Is the USA offering . . . ?", into "The USA is offering . . . ".

And the Indian Navy has made it clear that it doesn't want a worn-out carrier it can't man, can't afford to operate & has no aircraft for.

 

[harryriedl]

Please, not that myth again!

No offer was made. When Robert Gates was asked about it by a journalist, he clearly thought it was a wind-up. The story seems to have originated with an Indian journalist saying on the internet "What if the USA offered . . . .?", & others picking it up & turning it, via "Is the USA offering . . . ?", into "The USA is offering . . . ".

And the Indian Navy has made it clear that it doesn't want a worn-out carrier it can't man, can't afford to operate & has no aircraft for.

I was referring to Gorshkov and its endless delay as they find out more things to be fixed not kitty Hawk:shudder

 

[swerve]

I was referring to Gorshkov and its endless delay as they find out more things to be fixed not kitty Hawk:shudder

Oops! Sorry.

I'd just come across the Kitty Hawk rumour being rehashed as fact, & was primed to shoot it down.

 

[Firehorse]

You are way on the wrong track on this one mate. Brazil is already a superpower economically and militarily in South America. Brazil will not even consider an SSBN or any strategic nuclear weapon capability. Not sure how you came up with that one.

Russia helps India with SSN issues, France helps Brazil with SSN issues- they are looking several decades ahead, and if not boomers, SLCM equiped sub (SSN or SSGN) can be a good substitute- it works for Israel, who has 3 SSGs! If they are already a superpower, than why not have a 2nd strike detterant capability, if it will be affordable and desirable, like "detterring SSN" from that interview?

 

[Salty Dog]

Russia helps India with SSN issues, France helps Brazil with SSN issues- they are looking several decades ahead, and if not boomers, SLCM equiped sub (SSN or SSGN) can be a good substitute- it works for Israel, who has 3 SSGs! If they are already a superpower, than why not have a 2nd strike detterant capability, if it will be affordable and desirable, like "detterring SSN" from that interview?

Brazil is in a very different geo-political situation than Israel or India. There are no threats to Brazil real or perceived. If you know of any please let us know. Why expend resources on an SSN in the first place?

 

[StevoJH]

Brazil is in a very different geo-political situation than Israel or India. There are no threats to Brazil real or perceived. If you know of any please let us know. Why expend resources on an SSN in the first place?

Maybe they want to be able to sit at the same table as the "big kids" with Nuclear submarines. Correct me if i am wrong, but every country that currently has SSN's is on the Security council arent they? Well, except for India who is leasing russian subs.

 

[swerve]

Correct me if i am wrong, but every country that currently has SSN's is on the Security council arent they? Well, except for India who is leasing russian subs.

But that's not what got them onto the Security Council.

Every country on the Security Council now (didn't originally) has SSBNs, which is more relevant.

 

[Firehorse]

With plenty of local disputes, South America isn't that different from South Asia- India already has BMs on surface ships and will get them on boomers once they are built.
Besides the UNSC factor mentioned above, noone knows with whom & against whom Brazil may be allied & fighting in 10, 20, 50 years from now. She may have global interests like China and the US now- raw materials, oil, markets, trade/SLOCs, etc.