Brazil building own nuclear submarine
- Thread starter drg
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Not being funny Swerve, but I'm sure they'll spend their money on something better than a Skyhawk upgrade.
What has the A-4AR upgrade added to Argentine warfighting capability? Nothing its potential enemies have not seen.
But "something better than a Skyhawk upgrade" is very unlikely to fit on their one and only carrier, without the sort of rebuild which ain't worthwhile for such an old ship. As a way of making the carrier useful, until it & the Skyhawks completely wear out, it'd make sense.
What has the A-4AR upgrade added to Argentinas capability? Consider what they'd have without it.
Contrary to what might happen in other parts of the world, chances of a full fledged arms race in South America is remote. There are quite a few bonds between countries especially economically (MERCOSUL/MERCOSUR).
SOUTHAM militaries have seen years of lean budgets and much of their equipment is in dire need of replacement. Recent upswings in economies have provide fresh sources of cash to enable military budgets to replace older equipment.
In terms of air forces, it's actually Brazil's turn to respond for a new fighter as Chile has recently acquired F-16s and Venezuela the Su-30MK.
Brazil will continue as a regional power, economically, politically,and militarily. Upgrades and new acquisitions are not seen as threats, just business as usual.
I'm not sure where the Skyhawk upgrade (A-4AR) comes from. The Brazilian Navy is looking at the A-4 upgrades similar to those of the FAB F-5s.
For the future the navy could look at the Rafale or F-18, both these aricraft have operated from the Sâo Paulo (when it was the Foch).
The Sâo Paulo may not realize it's full potential with it's fixed wing aircraft, however it still fills a key role with embarked rotary wing aircraft with amphibious and ASW missions.
Logical. Note that I didn't suggest that Brazil should apply exactly the same upgrade as Argentina to its Skyhawks, but something "along the lines of the A-4AR Fightinghawk", by which I meant adding similar capabilities. The new avionics of the FAB F-5Es would certainly fit that description - and are more modern.
IIRC the Rafale flights from Foch were at reduced weight, & the catapults would not be capable of launching a laden Rafale. I think Rafales or F-18s could operate in an air-air role (which was what the French navy wanted the F-18 for, but was forced to accept an F-8 upgrade), but would be very limited in air-surface weapons loads.
Well, I don't think SSNs are a waste of $ for them- they'll be able to better keep up with the current & future CV as escorts, and also I just read in ([ame="http://www.amazon.com/Quick-Dirty-Guide-War-Briefings/dp/0688100333"]Amazon.com: A Quick & Dirty Guide to War: Briefings on Present and Potential Wars: James F. Dunnigan, Austin Bay: Books[/ame])
that Brazil, just like Chile, UK and Argentina, has her own Antarctic claim.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_Antarctica
StevoJH
The Bunker Group
lots of countries have Antarctic claims.
As for a future CV, as i understand it, Sao Paulo rarely leaves port as it is, can brazil afford a new build CV? Because the second retired french carrier is apparrently being scrapped in scotland, leaving only the smaller european "harrier carriers" possibly entering the market in the next 30 or 40 years when CVF might go up for sale.
Hmmm, the Harrier Carriers could be difficult purchases-due to lack of aircraft, age of the vessels (European Navies are using their carriers to their full expected life expetancy unlike their frigates and destroyers), and CVF is expected to have a service life of 50 years (don't expect either the RN, or the MN (if they order PA2) to give them up before then). Salty Dog will probably have a better answer but I should think that the Brazilian Navy is studying solutions to replace the Sao Paulo.
Cavour and perhaps BPE would probably make an appearance for that case.
Also, if we leap ahead that far... 20 years down the line, sell CdG to Brazil and rebuild it with Brazilian reactor technology stemming from this current Brazilian-French cooperation on a SSN during a refueling cycle, and buy an upgraded second PA2 for France.
Also, if we leap ahead that far... 20 years down the line, sell CdG to Brazil and rebuild it with Brazilian reactor technology stemming from this current Brazilian-French cooperation on a SSN during a refueling cycle, and buy an upgraded second PA2 for France.
Cavour would either have to be stretched & given catapults, or Brazil would have to buy F-35B. BPE is doesn't have the first option: it's F-35B or nothing. A stretched, CTOL Cavour would be an option.
The new Indian carriers will be STOBAR vice CATOBAR.
The only CATOBAR navies are Brazil, France and the USA. A very small club indeed.
The next Brazilian CV (if any) will most likely depend on the type of fixed wing aircraft the Brazilian Navy intends to operate. Kind of like the CDG which was built to operate the Rafale.
Whilst an interesting discussion, we are going way off topic.
to continue the off topic discussion would the Brazil be interested in STOVL 20 years done the line F35B replacing F5/A4 replacement [yes expense would be an issue but not a big one in 20 years]
Yes, but most of those that are farther away than Chile & Argentina, except Brazil, Norway, Australia & NZ, already operate SSNs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctic_territorial_claims#Antarctic_Territorial_Claimslots of countries have Antarctic claims.
The British claim overlapps that of Brazil.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7048237.stm
This is the real frozen conflict that may warm up once more ice melts!
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Study/WilkinsIceSheet/
Imagine Argentina & Brazil fighting Chile and the UK over the division of Antarctica!
So, Brazil has 1 more reason to get them!
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As for Brazils artic claim it's unofficial and not recognised by anyone, whereas the other 8 claims are recognised by the claiments.
Well, that's irrelevent- recognized or not, they do claim a slice of it. There is a large unclaimed sector between 90W & 150 meridians that may be later claimed by anyone, including China and India- the former operates SSNs and the latter is working to get them.
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/islands_oceans_poles/antarctic_region_pol_95.jpg
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/islands_oceans_poles/antarctic_region_pol_95.jpg
1. There are eight claims in total, including Brazils, unless you consider Australia to have two.
2. Some of the Antarctic claims overlap, including a double overlap, with three claimants to the same slice, so clearly, they can't all be recognised by the claimants.
3. In fact, what the claimants recognise is that the others have made claims: they do not necessarily accept the validity of those claims. The treaty signatories (except the USA & USSR, since replaced by Russia, which reserve the right to make future claims) also agree that new claims *e.g. Brazils) have no validity.
Can you please re-phrase that? I'm afraid it's incoherent.
BTW, of 8 claimants (including Brazil), only 3 are more distant than Brazil, but 6 (ignoring the tiny difference between Argentina & Chile) are more distant than Argentina. Which do you actually mean? Just 2 of the 8 claimants operate SSNs.
I meant that yes, 2 outside powers operate SSNs (France & the UK), and Brazil is farther from Ant. than Chile & Argentina. BTW, UK, NZ & Australia won't fight each other over their claims and will likely suport each other in case someone else contests them. So Brazil is on her own, with possible Argentinian, Chinese & Indian support.
Ruling Antarctica
http://www.idlewords.com/2006/03/ruling_antarctica.htm
Even that issue aside, the SLOCs between S.America, W/S. Africa, India & China via South Atlantic and Pacific are made for SSNs to patrol and protect! The Panama Canal is being widened, and some goods may be moved overland from Brazil to the Pac. coast and loaded on ships to Asia.
http://www.mapsofworld.com/brazil/maps/brazil-map.jpg
Ruling Antarctica
http://www.idlewords.com/2006/03/ruling_antarctica.htm
Even that issue aside, the SLOCs between S.America, W/S. Africa, India & China via South Atlantic and Pacific are made for SSNs to patrol and protect! The Panama Canal is being widened, and some goods may be moved overland from Brazil to the Pac. coast and loaded on ships to Asia.
http://www.mapsofworld.com/brazil/maps/brazil-map.jpg
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