F-X deal is back on. Brazil back in action

[Vivendi]

Thanks mate! My bust.

Eurofighter Typhoon

Rumour mill has the Rafale and F-35 as the top contenders.

From now-famous flightglobal story (h)ttp://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/06/16/224662/brazil-issues-120-aircraft-request-to-five-fighter-manufacturers.html

However, the defence ministry's new shortlist will come as a disappointment to Lockheed, which was interested in offering its F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

It seems F-35 was not invited... Perhaps you are referring to SU-35 not F-35? Or is the Flightglobal journalist misinformed?

V

 

[ROCK45]

Gripen

Vivendi you have a good point I can't find it right now but I saw a article stating the new Gripen has more range then a Viper. I think with the other things you mention it has a shot. I shouldn't assume the Rafale has it hands down and I don't think Brazil will wait for the F-35.

 

[Salty Dog]

Vivendi you have a good point I can't find it right now but I saw a article stating the new Gripen has more range then a Viper. I think with the other things you mention it has a shot. I shouldn't assume the Rafale has it hands down and I don't think Brazil will wait for the F-35.

The F-35 and F-16 were mentioned by me a month ago as mentioned in articles in the Brazilian press.

The recent RFP seems to have left out Lockheed Martin completely. I do not know the reason why, but my speculation is the F-16 is too old and the F-35 too expensive.

 

[Salty Dog]

Boeing Delivers Super Hornet Proposal to Brazil For F-X2 Competition

ST. LOUIS, Aug. 15, 2008 -- The Boeing Company [NYSE: BA] delivered a detailed proposal July 30 offering its advanced F/A-18E/F Super Hornet to the Brazilian Air Force as part of Brazil's F-X2 fighter competition.

"International interest in the combat-proven Super Hornet continues to increase, and Boeing is honored Brazil is considering the Super Hornet to meet its near-term defense requirements," said Bob Gower, F/A-18 and EA-18 Programs vice president, Boeing Integrated Defense Systems.

Boeing received a Request for Information from the government of Brazil on June 12. The stated initial requirement is for 36 aircraft, with the potential for up to 120 aircraft.

The Super Hornet variant Boeing is offering to Brazil is based on the Block II F/A-18E/F model flown by the U.S. Navy and currently being built for the Royal Australian Air Force. Advanced technology -- such as Raytheon's APG-79 Active Electronically Scanned Array radar -- and proven reliability are drawing increasing international interest in the aircraft as a cost-effective and lethal air defense solution.

"The Super Hornet we are proposing for Brazil delivers cutting-edge, multi-role strike fighter capability that is ready today," said Gower. "With the Block II enhancements, the Super Hornet's combat capabilities continue to grow, offering a comprehensive multi-role solution at an affordable price."

Boeing has delivered more than 360 Super Hornets to the U.S. Navy. Australia has ordered 24 F/A-18F Super Hornets to bolster its fleet of F/A-18 Hornets. Boeing is in discussions with several other international customers about their interest in procuring the F/A-18E/F.

Source: www.boeing.com

Should be interesting which fighter competition gets done first, India's MRCA or Brazil's FX-2.

We may see an F-16BR in the Brazil FX-2.

 

[ROCK45]

Brazil's FX-2

I saw this as well and it should be interesting I'm changing my opinion on the Brazil FX-2. I thought France had it in the bag but I think American weapons and radar may be the key selling point.

I think Brazil FX-2 will select first nothing in the world could be slower then the Indian MRCA process.

 

[JohanGrön]

LockMart probably outfouled in Brazils FX-2 tender!

Lockheed Martin is offering a F-16 Block 60 variant to the FAB instead of the F-35A they asked for. This is in their response to the FAB RFI for 36 fighters.

The reason for LockMart not to offer the F-35A was that the RFI required the selected manufacturer to transfer all technology required to maintain the aircraft.

I can not see that the FAB will go for the F-16 Block 60 when beeing so blatantly dissed by LockMart!

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

Deleted

 

[Feanor]

Any news on Russian participation? Maybe a confirmation on whether it's the Su-35BM or Su-30MK that will be running?

 

[Vivendi]

Any news on Russian participation? Maybe a confirmation on whether it's the Su-35BM or Su-30MK that will be running?

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=defense&id=news/BRAZIL082708.xml&headline=Brazil%20Offered%20F-16s,%20Not%20F-35s

The F-16BR is one of six contenders for the F-X2 program. Brazil also requested information on the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Dassault Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon, Saab Gripen and Sukhoi Su-35, with the field expected to be narrowed to two or three candidates ahead of a contract award early next year.

V

 

[nevidimka]

What about the PAK FA program? or is this FX deal to complement the PAK FA?

 

[Salty Dog]

What about the PAK FA program? or is this FX deal to complement the PAK FA?

AFAIK there is no comittment for Brazil to acquire the PAK FA. There is some agreement to participate in the PAK FA technology development. The conditions and depth of this colaboration is unknown. IMHO this is just political marketing as potential supplier countries (USA, Russia, France, etc) jockey for position in the F-X2 fighter competition.

 

[Salty Dog]

Here is a link to nice read on the current status of the Brazilian F-X2 program. It includes the earlier F-X program history as well as an analysis on the current F-X2 contenders. Some excellent information.

Brazil Embarking Upon F-X2 Fighter Program

 

[swerve]

Interesting read. It led me to some thoughts about other aircraft. I wonder to what extent the systems on the R-99s are being kept up to date? And the numbers of both R-99A & B are very small for a country the size of Brazil. Is it likely that more will be bought, either on the same platform, or perhaps a newer, longer-endurance, aircraft? More money would also increase the chances of the C-390 going ahead, both as a transport & to replace the current rather old tankers. Any news on that front?

 

[Salty Dog]

Interesting read. It led me to some thoughts about other aircraft. I wonder to what extent the systems on the R-99s are being kept up to date? And the numbers of both R-99A & B are very small for a country the size of Brazil. Is it likely that more will be bought, either on the same platform, or perhaps a newer, longer-endurance, aircraft? More money would also increase the chances of the C-390 going ahead, both as a transport & to replace the current rather old tankers. Any news on that front?

Good question on the R-99s. There was never any plans to have a great number of these as their primary purpose is to a fill in gaps where there is lack of coverage in the ground based radars of the SIPAAM/SIVAM system. I have not heard about increasing the R-99A/B numbers or a replacement.

The EMBRAER C-390 is proceeding along and ENAER (Chile) is now a partner in this project. The C-390 is projected for a MTOW of 60 tons with a max cargo capacity of 19 tons @ 1,250 Nm (10 tons @ 2,450 Nm). It is touted as a replacement for the C-130.

 

[Vivendi]

Here is a link to nice read on the current status of the Brazilian F-X2 program. It includes the earlier F-X program history as well as an analysis on the current F-X2 contenders. Some excellent information.

Brazil Embarking Upon F-X2 Fighter Program

Salty Dog, Thanks very interesting.

I was wondering, at the time when the first F-X competition was cancelled, what was considered the most likely winner at that time? Or did the process stop too early to allow any indications of the most promising candidate?

It's also interesting to see that the "single-engine myth" is still alive. Granted, single-engine robustness was an issue in the 70s and 80s, however modern single-engine planes should be considered very reliable. If the opposite was the case how could USN go for F-35?

V

 

[Vivendi]

Here is a link to nice read on the current status of the Brazilian F-X2 program. It includes the earlier F-X program history as well as an analysis on the current F-X2 contenders. Some excellent information.

Brazil Embarking Upon F-X2 Fighter Program

Something else: it says in this story that the budget is 2.2 Billion USD for 36 planes -- seems like a very low budget to me and it probably means that SU-35, F16 and Gripen would be the candidates? Or could Brazil get a subsidized Rafale from a desperate France? I am surprised Typhoon is in this competition at all, unless somebody plans to push old T1 planes to Brazil of course.


V

 

[Salty Dog]

Something else: it says in this story that the budget is 2.2 Billion USD for 36 planes -- seems like a very low budget to me and it probably means that SU-35, F16 and Gripen would be the candidates? Or could Brazil get a subsidized Rafale from a desperate France? I am surprised Typhoon is in this competition at all, unless somebody plans to push old T1 planes to Brazil of course.

V

I agree the the $2.2 Bi is low for a complete package as a new infrastructure will be required with any new model fighter. The French have a strong influence at the moment in Brazilian naval projects, which may give an edge to the non-French models. Still, there are always politics (and personalities) lurking in the background that may sway the deal.

 

[harryriedl]

I agree the the $2.2 Bi is low for a complete package as a new infrastructure will be required with any new model fighter. The French have a strong influence at the moment in Brazilian naval projects, which may give an edge to the non-French models. Still, there are always politics (and personalities) lurking in the background that may sway the deal.

is it likely that the French are going to try foist a big combined deal like they did on the Morocco's fighter deal and others i.e Sub's and Rafs? would this be off putting for Brazil

 

[Feanor]

The French tried this with the Saudis with helicopters, and instead the Saudi's turned to Russia. I'd think they learned their lesson

 

[ROCK45]

Frances Rafale

France tried the same thing with Libya adding more goodies to the shopping list not sure if they tried the same with South Korea. I can’t find it now but didn’t France offer maritime aircraft as well with Libya? Didn't France offer trains in one of the Rafale offers as well?

I attached a few links to past articles.

UPDATE 3-Dassault source denies reported Libya Rafale order
http://uk.reuters.com/article/UK_SMALLCAPSRPT/idUKL1475276120070114

Other items on the list include six boats, armored vehicles, radars and the delivery of upgraded Mirage F-1s already bought by Libya.

http://www.domain-b.com/defence/general/20071212_rafale.html