Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

[Sea Toby]

I was a submariner for 13 years and only had to hot bunk as a trainee submariner in the very beginning on O boats.
Onboard Collins Class submarines no one hot bunks.

How many extra bunks are there on a Collins class boat? When was the last time you had to pick up survivors from a sinking Cuban raft filled with 50 persons, ten of them kids and five women are pregnant? Submarines are made today with more automation, back during the 1960s submarine crews were twice as large, in similar sized submarines.

Today's youth don't know how good they have it.

 

[Lofty_DBF]

How many extra bunks are there on a Collins class boat? When was the last time you had to pick up survivors from a sinking Cuban raft filled with 50 persons, ten of them kids and five women are pregnant? Submarines are made today with more automation, back during the 1960s submarine crews were twice as large, in similar sized submarines.

Today's youth don't know how good they have it.

Oberon class submarines built in the 1960's and operated by the RAN till 2000 regularly went to sea with up to 80 crew, very crowded and only used to shower once a fortnight and sleep next to a torpedo or encapsulated harpoon.
We used to spend long periods at sea in the ultra quiet state with no ventilation fans or air conditioning running.

 

[StingrayOZ]

O boats I belive were designed off modified captured German plans. Hence conditions were tight, esp before the removal of rear torpedos and equipment to make room for bunks etc.

They are tight, old school WWII type british ship type. They aren't like a 80's or 90's American nuclear submarine, which in comparison is like a underwater office block.

A o boat has a displacement of 2000t and crew in excess of 60. (80 would include certain specialist operational personel not always required). A collins has a displacement of 3000t and a a crew of around 40.

Where as a los Angles Sub has a displacement of 6000t (although a large crew of 120 odd).

 

[alexsa]

The problem being as i understand it, that delivery of the MRH90's will take absolutely forever.

Really. You will need to define "forever" as the MFH-90 is being delivered now (contract for the intial 12 was signed in August 2004). As i understand it the first air frames are pretty well on schedule.

Given the aircraft are being assembled in Australia and the infrastructure is now in place "forever" seems a bit pesimistic and not entirely consistent with the current situation. The real risk for NFH-90 is the sensors and systems and one would hope we pick the most mature option (there ae a range of them) currently moving into final development noting deliveries of the aircraft started in late 2007 to european customers

 

[Aussie Digger]

The problem being as i understand it, that delivery of the MRH90's will take absolutely forever.

They were ordered in 2004/5 and 3 have been delivered already...

I guess forever is only 3-4 years now eh?

 

[Tasman]

Harpoon now fitted to 7 FFHs

Photos on the ADF site now show that at least seven Anzac class FFHs are now fitted with Harpoon, The last unit to be fitted (if she has not already received them), HMAS Perth, is scheduled to receive her launchers before the end of the year. HMAS Toowoomba deployed for Ex Kakadu with a pair of twin canisters and HMAS Ballarat also mounted a pair of twins during a recent visit by the Governor General, Major General Michael Jeffery (retd).

The standard peacetime fitting now seems to have settled as four cannisters (2x2) with an additional four cannisters fitted when ships deploy on operations.

The attached photos are from the ADF site, http://www.defence.gov.au/media/download/2008/Aug/index.htm

Tas

 

[Pusser01]

Photos on the ADF site now show that at least seven Anzac class FFHs are now fitted with Harpoon, The last unit to be fitted (if she has not already received them), HMAS Perth, is scheduled to receive her launchers before the end of the year. HMAS Toowoomba deployed for Ex Kakadu with a pair of twin canisters and HMAS Ballarat also mounted a pair of twins during a recent visit by the Governor General, Major General Michael Jeffery (retd).

The standard peacetime fitting now seems to have settled as four cannisters (2x2) with an additional four cannisters fitted when ships deploy on operations.Tas

Perth came out of refit at Henderson 2 weeks ago fitted for Harpoon. She is still the only Anzac not yet fitted for Mini-Typhoon.
Cheers

 

[Aussie Digger]

Perth came out of refit at Henderson 2 weeks ago fitted for Harpoon. She is still the only Anzac not yet fitted for Mini-Typhoon.
Cheers

Cool.

Do you know (and can you say...) if work has started yet on Typhoon/mini-typhoon being fitted to HMAS Tobruk, Manoora and Kanimbla?

I thought it was due to be done earlier this year...

 

[Pusser01]

Tobruk was fitted with Mini-typhoon a couple of years ago when she took Army equipment to the Gulf. Not sure about Kanimbla, Manoora though.
Cheers

 

[Tasman]

Tobruk was fitted with Mini-typhoon a couple of years ago when she took Army equipment to the Gulf. Not sure about Kanimbla, Manoora though.
Cheers

The attached photo taken during Exercise Croix Du Sud 2008 taken in April this year clearly shows a Mini Typhoon mounted high up midship on the starboard side on Kanimbla.

http://www.defence.gov.au/media/download/2008/apr/20080407b/index.htm

Tas

 

[battlensign]

The attached photo taken during Exercise Croix Du Sud 2008 taken in April this year clearly shows a Mini Typhoon mounted high up midship on the starboard side on Kanimbla.

http://www.defence.gov.au/media/download/2008/apr/20080407b/index.htm

Tas

Yep....good eye as always Tas....They both have the mountings. However, how many weapons we have is another question. Apparently they can take some significant amount of time to get in country. This may mean that there is a Phalanx type scenario going on.

Brett.

 

[Aussie Digger]

Yep....good eye as always Tas....They both have the mountings. However, how many weapons we have is another question. Apparently they can take some significant amount of time to get in country. This may mean that there is a Phalanx type scenario going on.

Brett.

There was a DMO "minors" project to equip all 3 of these vessels with 4x 25mm Typhoon weapon systems each. Mini-Typhoon was to equip the vessels as an "interim" capability.

Funny. I just did my homework on this matter and look what DMO has to say about it now...

Prime Contractors: Alliant Techsystems Ind. and Rafael Armament Development Authority (Israel).

Ships Self Defence Capability – Rapid Acquisition

Phase 1 of SEA 1779 Ph 1 will provide a dual level ship self defence capability for HMA Ships Kanimbla, Manoora and Tobruk.

This capability will provide better defence against watercraft, land targets, helicopters and floating mines. The capability will consist of an integrated fire control system and Toplite electro-optical director system. The 25mm Bushmaster naval variant cannons are to be integrated to provide the cannon for the Typhoon system.


The “fit for but not with” installation schedule is on track, however the procurement of hardware and in particular Typhoon mounts lag by 6 months. Notwithstanding, TOBRUK, KANIMBLA and MANOORA are presently configured for Mini Typhoon Self Protection, albeit KANIMBLA will have the Mini Typhoons resited at the next Availability in May to pave the way for the installation of Typhoon mounts on delivery from Rafael Feb 09, to provide the optimal self defence capability.


Initial Operational Release of the first ship with optimal self defence capability is scheduled for February 2009, with project completion in July 2009.



Obtained from: http://www.defence.gov.au/dmo/lsp/further_LSP.cfm#ssdc

I imagine given the "lag" mentioned above, along with the FFG-UP issues with the Rafael provided C-PEARL EW system that Rafael are almost as popular as Boeing within the DMO and larger DoD these days...


I'm starting to wonder if there are there ANY projects that come in on time, that aren't FMS based?

 

[battlensign]

There was a DMO "minors" project to equip all 3 of these vessels with 4x 25mm Typhoon weapon systems each. Mini-Typhoon was to equip the vessels as an "interim" capability.

Funny. I just did my homework on this matter and look what DMO has to say about it now...

Prime Contractors: Alliant Techsystems Ind. and Rafael Armament Development Authority (Israel).

Ships Self Defence Capability – Rapid Acquisition

Phase 1 of SEA 1779 Ph 1 will provide a dual level ship self defence capability for HMA Ships Kanimbla, Manoora and Tobruk.

This capability will provide better defence against watercraft, land targets, helicopters and floating mines. The capability will consist of an integrated fire control system and Toplite electro-optical director system. The 25mm Bushmaster naval variant cannons are to be integrated to provide the cannon for the Typhoon system.


The “fit for but not with” installation schedule is on track, however the procurement of hardware and in particular Typhoon mounts lag by 6 months. Notwithstanding, TOBRUK, KANIMBLA and MANOORA are presently configured for Mini Typhoon Self Protection, albeit KANIMBLA will have the Mini Typhoons resited at the next Availability in May to pave the way for the installation of Typhoon mounts on delivery from Rafael Feb 09, to provide the optimal self defence capability.


Initial Operational Release of the first ship with optimal self defence capability is scheduled for February 2009, with project completion in July 2009.



Obtained from: http://www.defence.gov.au/dmo/lsp/further_LSP.cfm#ssdc

I imagine given the "lag" mentioned above, along with the FFG-UP issues with the Rafael provided C-PEARL EW system that Rafael are almost as popular as Boeing within the DMO and larger DoD these days...


I'm starting to wonder if there are there ANY projects that come in on time, that aren't FMS based?

Hmm.....some good stuff there. Yeah, I was talking about mini-typhoon mounts, however truth be told, I was not aware of the plan details in relation to the 25mm variant. Maybe you are right.......M/COTS looks better and better everyday. Of course the delays in capability are the cost.

Brett.

 

[Tasman]

I'm starting to wonder if there are there ANY projects that come in on time, that aren't FMS based?

I've been thinking along the same lines. There seems to be something drastically wrong with the defence industry in Australia and other western countries. Very few companies seem to be able to deliver what is promised and deliver it on schedule.

As Brett suggests it seems that the Mini Typhoon pool is being rotated through the fleet and usually only fitted to ships deploying to danger spots. It would be interesting to know how many units are actually in the RAN's inventory. I suspect it is fairly small. IIRC the Phalanx inventory stands at just 9 units and I doubt the Mini Typhoon inventory is likely to be much greater, given the present government's attitude towards defence.

Tas

 

[Pusser01]

I've been thinking along the same lines. There seems to be something drastically wrong with the defence industry in Australia and other western countries. Very few companies seem to be able to deliver what is promised and deliver it on schedule.

As Brett suggests it seems that the Mini Typhoon pool is being rotated through the fleet and usually only fitted to ships deploying to danger spots. It would be interesting to know how many units are actually in the RAN's inventory. I suspect it is fairly small. IIRC the Phalanx inventory stands at just 9 units and I doubt the Mini Typhoon inventory is likely to be much greater, given the present government's attitude towards defence.

Tas

I am taking a punt in saying that there are probably 4-5 sets of Mini-typhoon in service at the moment. Ship working up for the Gulf, ship in Gulf, ship back from Gulf, one set for training at Westhead, set for amphibs. Will try to find out for sure though.
Cheers

 

[Tasman]

I am taking a punt in saying that there are probably 4-5 sets of Mini-typhoon in service at the moment. Ship working up for the Gulf, ship in Gulf, ship back from Gulf, one set for training at Westhead, set for amphibs. Will try to find out for sure though.
Cheers

4-5 pairs would fit with my observations. It would be interesting to find out the actual number (if it is not a naval secret of course! ).

Tas

 

[ThePuss]

Mini typhoon is becoming standard fit for Anzacs and FFG's as well as the Flat bottoms. More are being purchased to allow this. Also Depot level maintaince is being set up in Australia so we dont have to ship the broken units to Israel any longer.

Next thing they need to do is set up training in country, everytime a ship gets fitted out they send out Israelis to do the training which no doubt is very expensive but the language issues can be pritty big!. Yes they can speak passable english but for example you dont' "Cock" the weapon you "charge" it (how very PC of them . Lead to some very confusing/funny mouments when i did my course!.

 

[Tasman]

Mini typhoon is becoming standard fit for Anzacs and FFG's as well as the Flat bottoms. More are being purchased to allow this. Also Depot level maintaince is being set up in Australia so we dont have to ship the broken units to Israel any longer.

That's good news.

Next thing they need to do is set up training in country

Agreed.


Tas

 

[flashed13685]

wants to work and live in austrailia

have 29 years shipbuilding ex[perience last four years i spent in design working pipe and machinary what are the chances of a fifty year old male with a drafting degree getting int0o the job market there thanks for your input

 

[Todjaeger]

have 29 years shipbuilding ex[perience last four years i spent in design working pipe and machinary what are the chances of a fifty year old male with a drafting degree getting int0o the job market there thanks for your input

Suggest you click this link. It should have some information regarding emigrating, particularly for skilled labour, etc. Hope it helps.

-Cheers