Russian Navy Head Calls for 5-6 Aircraft Carriers

[roberto]

That's crap. For Russia to deliver and airstrike in Kenya requires a huge effort of either delivering the Admiral Kuznetsov to the coast of Africa or to somehow get overflight rights and at least temporary basing in one of Kenya's neighbors. The USA just has to grab the nearest CVBG and do it. That's force projection.

Why would Kenya require huge effort?. u have libyan /Sudanese airspace permission just like Iran give permission in 2003 Indian ocean exercises. Now Russia has money it can permanently station aircrew in one of North Africa/Middleastern airfields. Remember only 43 nations supported Kosov despite huge effort. Russia has alot of influence with third world.

Sure. Until the current fields run out, as new ones are certainly not being developed anywhere near fast enough.

Putin knows alot more than any one else speculation.

That's more crap. I was citing those things as an example of force projection. Keep the discussion on topic. Russia can't boast any similar force projection capabilities. You don't see Russian Naval bases in Cuba or Angola. And even the Indian Ocean base is tiny (as is the Tartarus base).

Because does not need those force projections. It is not dependent on natural resources or capital inflows like West

Excellent. But that doesn't prove your point. You claimed Russia had global force projection capabilities. It does not (outside of strategic bombers and ICBMs).

How bombers went to Indian ocean in 2003? Just look at Sudan. if push come to show in middleast Iran will be the staging ground just like Syria and North africa all the way to Zimbabwe and Yemen. It is just Russia does not need it currently.

 

[StevoJH]

Why would Kenya require huge effort?. u have libyan /Sudanese airspace permission just like Iran give permission in 2003 Indian ocean exercises. Now Russia has money it can permanently station aircrew in one of North Africa/Middleastern airfields. Remember only 43 nations supported Kosov despite huge effort. Russia has alot of influence with third world.



Putin knows alot more than any one else speculation.



Because does not need those force projections. It is not dependent on natural resources or capital inflows like West



How bombers went to Indian ocean in 2003? Just look at Sudan. if push come to show in middleast Iran will be the staging ground just like Syria and North africa all the way to Zimbabwe and Yemen. It is just Russia does not need it currently.

The Bear has something like a 15,000km range without refueling, plus there is a bit of difference between peacetime flight (they might have even filed a flight plan with the countries they flew over) and a wartime flight.

 

[roberto]

The Bear has something like a 15,000km range without refueling, plus there is a bit of difference between peacetime flight (they might have even filed a flight plan with the countries they flew over) and a wartime flight.

I know War is serious business. If Russia is serioius with any country it will give overhelming support to that country for flgiht permission and staging area. It is not some second rate army that any one in battlfield can challenge it. It has serious strategic airlift ability with airborne troops. It can defeat an enemy up in high mountains let alone in open desert like Irak. it can defeat country and occupy country like Kenya/Irak with in days even without extensiv use of airpower.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1831857,00.html
Moscow's intentions were never secret. I can attest to that firsthand. During Tajikistan's civil war in the early 1990s, I was assigned to the embassy in Dushanbe and was evacuated out of the country by Russia's 201st Motorized Rifle Division. The Russian officers who commanded the unit were proud that the Red Army had held together through the breakup of the Soviet Union and was called to come to the aid of a superpower like the United States. They had no inkling that Washington would ignore the facts on the ground and deny Russia's true influence in the region.

 

[StevoJH]

I know War is serious business. If Russia is serioius with any country it will give overhelming support to that country for flgiht permission and staging area. It is not some second rate army that any one in battlfield can challenge it. It has serious strategic airlift ability with airborne troops. It can defeat an enemy up in high mountains let alone in open desert like Irak. it can defeat country and occupy country like Kenya/Irak with in days even without extensiv use of airpower.

They could not do it as easily as the US as the Amphibious capabilities of the Russian Navy are nowhere near as developed as those of the RN and USN, plus they do not have the same level of Strategic Airlift.

They could possibly defeat and occupy iraq as the coalition is doing, however they would still be in the exact same position as the US currently is. Not to mention that i have doubts the russians could sustain such a force for a long period of time supplied only by air and possibly sea.

 

[roberto]

They could not do it as easily as the US as the Amphibious capabilities of the Russian Navy are nowhere near as developed as those of the RN and USN, plus they do not have the same level of Strategic Airlift.

They could possibly defeat and occupy iraq as the coalition is doing, however they would still be in the exact same position as the US currently is. Not to mention that i have doubts the russians could sustain such a force for a long period of time supplied only by air and possibly sea.

They can certainly resupply force upto 200,000 in most demanding conditions now. Just look at 90s. they were facing huge chechen , Uzbek,Tajik islamic rebellion in very mountaneous regions. not only that they were the only one who were supplying and training northern allaince in afghanistan (from Kulyab airbase) against very large enemy and that was weaken state of 90s.
Against third world countries u dont need aircraft carriers and against first world Aircraft carrier alone may not work as fighter aircraft from land based fields have higher performance and endurance. It is just different perspective and strategy.
If Russia has to occupy country like Irak it will go through Syrian ports and airspace and is perfectly capable of sustaining the conflict over the years.
First there tactics are different, cost of equipment is cheaper, 30 to 40 years of experiance in fighting anti-terrorist operations. And also knows what kind of government quickly installed to support further actions.
there are joint exercise under CSTO/SCO. So they can also create coalation of willing if there is need of such adventure. Georgia havent faced modern Russian army (precsion strikes with Iskander, Smerch, Masta, Su-27SM etc)and still it melted in less than 3 days. It is bit different than Powell doctorine of overwhelming force.
Strategic airlift is already there with 250 to 500 IL-76, 22 An-124 and countless from Volga Dnpr/AirPolyt/Aeroflot. And there is industrail capacity to make large planes quckly if there is necessity for War strategic airlift
Russia also have large fleet of attack and transport chopers that are much simpler to maintain and use in battlefield condition.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/02/06/big-planes.html
Without big planes, Canada at mercy of Russians: minister

 

[Feanor]

And how many Iskanders and Su-27SM's are there? Hmm well lets see. One Iskander brigade in the North Caucus MD and two regiments of Su-27SM's, both stationed in the Far East. Then there's one T-90 regiment in Siberian MD and another in the Moscow MD. There's one BMP-3 regiment in the Siberian MD and ~2 batallions in the Moscow MD. Where is the modern Russian Army you speak of?

As for the airstrike in Kenya, my point was simple. It would be more difficult for Russia to do it on moments notice then it would for the USA. Most improtantly a sustained effort would be the problem. Does Kenya have the logistical capabilities to support a Russian military presence? No. Does Russia have nearby countries with bases to support the logistical effort? No. Again Russian capability of global force projection is very very limited.

 

[roberto]

And how many Iskanders and Su-27SM's are there? Hmm well lets see. One Iskander brigade in the North Caucus MD and two regiments of Su-27SM's, both stationed in the Far East. Then there's one T-90 regiment in Siberian MD and another in the Moscow MD. There's one BMP-3 regiment in the Siberian MD and ~2 batallions in the Moscow MD. Where is the modern Russian Army you speak of?

Two to three regiment of Su-27SM are enough for round the clock high speed, high altitude all weather strikes against targets that are much further away. Remember Flanker has long legs, speed compared to Su-25/Su-24. for third world countries backed by A-50 is enough to do the job much quickly.

As for the airstrike in Kenya, my point was simple. It would be more difficult for Russia to do it on moments notice then it would for the USA. Most improtantly a sustained effort would be the problem. Does Kenya have the logistical capabilities to support a Russian military presence? No. Does Russia have nearby countries with bases to support the logistical effort? No. Again Russian capability of global force projection is very very limited.

If Sudan/Ethopia/Eriteria can fly MIG-29s/Su-27. Dont u think Russia cannot fly Su-24/Su-25 from those field provided it makes required investment for 8 to 9 months. US didnot strike Irak overnight. It prepared for it for more than a Year in neighboring countries from Kuwait to Qater etc. So suppose if Russia chose a third world country for invasion. It will need to make $25B to $50B initial investment for invasion preparation. ( this amount of money is enough to buy influence in third world countries for rest of life).
This thing does not happen overnight. Russian aircrafts are much easier to operate from rough run ways.

 

[gf0012-aust]

This is getting ridiculous. Stay on topic

This thread is getting closed for a few days so that there can be an element of sanity injected back into the boards.

Roberto, I suggest that you modify your approach before you continue to engage with long term respected posters such as Feanor and Tphuang.