Antonov An-225

[JoeLiTo]

I found two pictures of 747s carrying operational shuttles on wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Atlantis_on_Shuttle_Carrier_Aircraft_3.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Space_Shuttle_Transit.jpg

 

[Magoo]

Sure thing. Unfortunately I don't have info on Buran (currently) so while the Space Shuttle (Enterprise IIRC) might be physically larger, I don't know which had greater weight. Also to keep in mind, the first space shuttle wasn't really a "space shuttle" since it wasn't designed to go exo-atmospheric (sp?) rather is was to test the design to see if it could operate in the atmosphere. That, and Buran was a decade+ later.

The NASA Shuttle transporter (a stripped 747-100) is used to carry all Shuttles from wherever they land (except Florida) back to the Cape for the next launch.

IIRC, an empty shuttle weighs about 150,000lbs.

Cheers

Magoo

 

[akinkhoo]

the buran can carry more load than the space shuttle but weight less emptied, because it has no main engine

it is actually a better design imo since the booster can function independently from the shuttle. providing almost a 100 tons (3 times the shuttle load). it could send enough mass to complete the ISS in 4 launches, with each launch costing only as much as that of the space shuttle.

the main reason why the 225 is so damn big isn't the buran, but because it also carries the energia core booster (which is the heaviest and largest single part).

 

[Firehorse]

Although the Bison could be made to carry Buran, but

..after a landing accident that left the 3MD and its Buran backpack stuck in the mud off the end of a runway, work was started in earnest for a better airlifter. A modified An-124 Ruslan was selected with a lengthened wing, two more engines, and twin rudders which gave the airlifer greater lifting capacity, reserve power, and much greater braking authority to keep the monster carrier out of the mud. http://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/kits/ani/kit_ani_5002.shtml

Some good pic here-
http://www.buran.ru/htm/foto6.htm
From the Wikipedea article:

The type's first flight in commercial service departed from Stuttgart, Germany on January 3, 2002, and flew to Thumrait, Oman with 216,000 prepared meals for American military personnel based in the region. This vast amount of ready meals was transported on some 375 pallets and weighed 187.5 tons.[9]
Since then, the An-225 has become the major workhorse of the Antonov Airlines fleet, transporting objects once thought impossible to move by air, such as locomotives and 150-ton generators, and has become a valuable asset to international relief organizations for its ability to quickly transport huge quantities of emergency supplies during disaster relief operations.[10]
By 2000, it had become apparent that the demand for the An-225 had exceeded the airline's booking capacity, and in September 2006 the decision was made to complete the second An-225. Assembly is scheduled to complete in 2008.[11]
Beginning in June 2003, the An-225, along with An-124s, delivered over 800 tons of equipment to aid humanitarian efforts in Iraq.[12]
The An-225 has also been contracted by the Canadian and U.S. governments to transport military supplies to the Middle East in support of Coalition forces.[10]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-225#cite_note-airfoyle2-8

IMO, there are things that Mria can do better than B-747F or A-380F- hence the 2nd AN-225. And I won't discount that a 3rd and 4th may be built!

 

[nevidimka]

Although the Bison could be made to carry Buran, but
Some good pic here-
http://www.buran.ru/htm/foto6.htm
From the Wikipedea article:

IMO, there are things that Mria can do better than B-747F or A-380F- hence the 2nd AN-225. And I won't discount that a 3rd and 4th may be built!

Actually the Buran is almost the same size of the Shuttle although its much more superior. Check out this comparison pic:

 

[Grand Danois]

Actually the Buran is almost the same size of the Shuttle although its much more superior. Check out this comparison pic:

Does that pic say the Buran had a payload of 100 tonnes?!

 

[nevidimka]

Yes! because it doesnt have engines like the shuttle do, so more space for the cargo compartment.

The pic actually shows just how much a loss to the space technology of the world the Buran-Energia system is. Even the Booster rockets had parachutes so that they can be recovered and reused.

 

[Grand Danois]

Yes! because it doesnt have engines like the shuttle do, so more space for the cargo compartment.

But it's maximum takeoff weight was 105,000 kg! If the payload is 100 tonnes, then the Buran was 95% cargo and 5% airframe and fuel!

*cough* *cough*

 

[nevidimka]

But it's maximum takeoff weight was 105,000 kg! If the payload is 100 tonnes, then the Buran was 95% cargo and 5% airframe and fuel!

*cough* *cough*

I'm sorry, the pic was abit misleading, and I was confused. Actually the BUran-Energia is 2 separate complex that is made to work as 1, unlike the US Shuttle system, where the Shuttle is the 1 and only payload for its booster rockets, and that the booster rockets can't fly by itself as it needs the shuttle's engines to make it work.

The Energia Rocket however is capable of putting up to 120 tonnes into orbit, and the buran is just 1 of the payloads it can carry, hence u are correct about the buran weighing 100 tonnes. The Buran's internal cargo volume has been stated as 30 tonnes by some websites. The Energia can carry miccelaneous cargoes other than the BUran of up to 120 tonnes, and Energia is just the phase 1 of the Energia's family of rockets.

hope that clears it.

 

[Grand Danois]

Yeah, I think whoever made that figure confused payload with MTOW.

However, IIRC, the Buran had a better payload/MTOW than the US shuttles.

 

[nevidimka]

Yes, true, and this is a great loss for the russians coz the more advanced range of the Energia family of booster rockets rumoured to be named Vulcan, it would be able to send the necessary cargo+ humans and landing vehicle for the Mars Landing. As the Soviets envisioned such a program when they built the Energia.

Oh n btw it is nice chatting with u Grand Danois.. LOL

 

[Firehorse]

This is now off topic, but I wonder: would it be feasible to restart Buran program, especially since Soyzes lately don't seem to land were they suppose to?

 

[kato]

"Land where it's supposed to" is a very relative term. Especially as at least they're landing, and not watering. Buran wouldn't be feasible. And Soyuz is only running on borrowed time either.

Current concept for the future is ACTS/CSTS, a joint Russian/European capsule, essentially a successor to Soyuz-TM/TMS.
ACTS would take a number of technologies from the European ATV and the Russian TKS, while keeping the basic Soyuz concept (and enlarging it). Conceptual design is supposed to be available around October 2008, first presentation was at Farnborough a couple days ago. Flight testing around 2015, first manned mission planned in 2018.

 

[akinkhoo]

This is now off topic, but I wonder: would it be feasible to restart Buran program, especially since Soyzes lately don't seem to land were they suppose to?

it is more political than technical, because the enegria-buran complex is not in russia anymore, it is simply not logical to spend money on something you must lease and the government there can just say "no more lease, we own it now" 15 years down the road. :