Russian Navy Head Calls for 5-6 Aircraft Carriers

[Feanor]

Krasnoe sormovo is at this point primarily a civilian shipyard. It's busy building transport ships and tankers. Admiralty also builds tankers, and small subs (Kilo and Amur class). Almaz has recently been busy building yachts for rich "new-Russians". Other then their export of several Zubr's to Greece, and construction of minor border patrol artillery ships for the Border Guard, they have done nothing worth mentioning in the defense sphere recently. Again Sevmash with all the big orders and the political leverage, the rest left with the scraps.

 

[Salty Dog]

Krasnoe sormovo is at this point primarily a civilian shipyard. It's busy building transport ships and tankers. Admiralty also builds tankers, and small subs (Kilo and Amur class). Almaz has recently been busy building yachts for rich "new-Russians". Other then their export of several Zubr's to Greece, and construction of minor border patrol artillery ships for the Border Guard, they have done nothing worth mentioning in the defense sphere recently. Again Sevmash with all the big orders and the political leverage, the rest left with the scraps.

You are seriously overlooking shipbuilding in the civilian sector. Worldwide shipbuilding is increasing and many yards are approaching capacilty. Try and build a ship in South Korea or Singapore and you'll be waiting in line. Those "scraps" you mention can turn out to be the real money makers, especially if military builds become few and far between. If those shipyards had any sense, they would know this.

 

[Feanor]

I understand what you're trying to say, but my original comment was directed primarily at the defense industry and the much sought after but currently lacking MoD orders for new ships, as well as military export. In the civilian area many of the other shipyards are indeed doing very well, but in the defense sphere Sevmash is the one.

 

[KiwiRob]

In the civilian area many of the other shipyards are indeed doing very well, but in the defense sphere Sevmash is the one.

But you are overlooking the following:

Yantar shipyard has a contract for 3 Project 11356 Krivak IV frigates for India

Severnaya Verf are building 3 Project 22350 Corvettes, 1 Project 22350 Frigate and are about to start on Project 18280 a Communication Ship all for the Russian Navy. They are also refitting 2 Russian Navy frigates.

Just a little titbit from a Russian Shipbuilding newsletter I recieve monthly.

Sevmash in trouble
2008-06-12

"The Sevmash shipyard in Severodvinsk, Arkhangelsk Oblast, was on the agenda when the Russian government yesterday discussed the country’s military industrial complex. The yard, one of the biggest in Russia, has proved unable to cope with three major ongoing construction projects.

Sevmash, one of two major shipyards in Russia’s northern engineering capital of Severodvinsk, has become a headache for the Russian government. Not only has the plant ended up in trouble because of its delays and cost overruns with the aircraft carrier “Admiral Gorshkov”, which is to be sold to the Indian Navy. Sevmash is also significantly behind schedules with the nuclear-powered submarine “Yuri Dolgorukii” – the first of Russia’s fourth generation submarines.

In addition, the plant recently also confirmed that it will not manage to complete the construction of the floating nuclear power station – the “Akademik Lomonosov. According to newspaper Vedomosti, the plant is already one year behind schedules with the unique power generating unit.

The Sevmash has also had major problems with completing several civil construction works. As previously reported by BarentsObserver, the Norwegian shipping company Odfjell earlier this year cancelled a big construction order on several chemical tankers, because of numerous delays.
Sources in the Ministry of Defense say to Vedomosti that the shipyard has been in a difficult situation since the early 1990s because of its lack of clever managers.

The Russian government has long put pressure on Sevmash to speed up the construction orders. Last year, the director of the company was dismissed because of the long-dragged projects. New company head Kalistratov is however unlikely to make any quick improvements.

The main problem of Sevmash is most probably a structural one. Russia’s nuclear submarine constructor number one is huge and in major need of modernization. In order to cope with its many big projects, the plant will have to restructure production processes and apply new technology."

The yard is a basket case and one of the worst managed in Russia.

 

[Feanor]

Unfortunately it's also the largest and the one with the biggest orders. And while it's no secret that it's been badly mismanaged, it's certainly not alone in this. Again while Sevmash may have serious troubles as a company, they have had the political leverage to nonetheless get all the large defense orders, and when I say large, I really mean largest. Now the Krivak order you mentioned is news to me, can you link to an article please?

 

[Salty Dog]

Unfortunately it's also the largest and the one with the biggest orders. And while it's no secret that it's been badly mismanaged, it's certainly not alone in this. Again while Sevmash may have serious troubles as a company, they have had the political leverage to nonetheless get all the large defense orders, and when I say large, I really mean largest. Now the Krivak order you mentioned is news to me, can you link to an article please?

I doubt it has anything to do with political leverage. Sevmash is probably the only Russian shipyard capable of nuclear submarine construction and large ships such as carriers. So IMHO by default, these are all constructed in the Sevmash shipyard.

 

[Feanor]

Perhaps I overextended my parallel from the tankbuilding and fighter industry, where the advantage of one of the companies over the rest is much easier to see and attribute to politics. However it once again seems very bizarre. If this is the case, then why not have the new 100k tons drydock be built by a better managed company, instead of the troublesome Sevmash? You'd hit two birds with one stone. You'd get an efficient company running the project, and you'd have an alternative to Sevmash in terms of major shipbuilding.

 

[Water-Man]

It seems everything in Russia has to do with political leverage.

Mod edit: Water-man, please refrain from posting one-line comments. They are against the forum rules because "one-liners" add little or nothing the discussions here.
-Preceptor

 

[KiwiRob]

Feanor the news about the Krivak has been posted in a couple of Shipping industry newsletters plus I was advised about it from the yard and have been asked to quote for parts.

I have know idea why Sevmash are getting a 100,000 ton drydock, but Baltsky Zavod already have a 100,000 ton slip which is the largest in Russia.

 

[Feanor]

Exactly. So lets look. Balt. Z. has a better reputation, and already has the drydock, but Sevmash is handed with the construction of a new drydock, and with the alleged future carrier program, for which the drydock is built. Looks like political leverage to me.

 

[Salty Dog]

Feanor the news about the Krivak has been posted in a couple of Shipping industry newsletters plus I was advised about it from the yard and have been asked to quote for parts.

I have know idea why Sevmash are getting a 100,000 ton drydock, but Baltsky Zavod already have a 100,000 ton slip which is the largest in Russia.

Baltiysky Zavod is in the Baltic Sea area and Sevmash is up near the Barents Sea. Strategically and geographically, this is a good decision.

 

[Feanor]

Despite the huge management crisis?

 

[Feanor]

Russia Confirms Carrier Aspirations

http://rian.ru/defense_safety/

The rian.ru article above is only one of several that have recently popped up on Russian news sites with quotes of Russian Admiral Vladimir Vysotskiy saying that Russia is in the process of developing a CVBG-based navy. I don't know whether it's a continuation of the Ulyanovsk class project, or a whole new ship, but he specifically references CVBG's for the Northern and Pacific fleets. Among a few other news, the Bulava is still entering service this year despite poor test results, along with the first Borei.

 

[eaf-f16]

Here is the article in English for those who cannot read Russian.

ST. PETERSBURG, July 27 (RIA Novosti) - Russia will create 5-6 aircraft carrier groups in the Northern and Pacific Fleets, the Navy commander said on Sunday.

Admiral Vladimir Vysotsky said the Navy command had decided to build sea-borne aircraft carrier systems for these fleets instead of simply aircraft carriers.

"Everything must work in a system, including aircraft carriers. We have called them sea-borne aircraft carrier systems, which will be based in the Northern and Pacific Fleets. The construction of such systems will begin after 2012," Vysotsky said before reviewing a military parade on the occasion of Navy Day in Russia.

Vysotsky said new sea-borne aircraft carrier systems will operate in close contact with Russia's orbital group of military satellites, and also with the Air Force and air defense.

At present, Russia has only one operational aircraft carrier, the Nikolai Kuznetsov, which was commissioned in the early 1990s and has recently re-entered service after a prolonged overhaul.

The ship, also known as Project 1143.5 heavy aircraft carrier, is currently deployed with Russia's Northern Fleet and has recently participated in a two-month tour to the Mediterranean as part of Russia's plans to resume its continual presence in different regions of the world's seas.

 

[Feanor]

Not quite the same article, but yes. Ones like this have appeared in several sites, all with the same quotes.

 

[nevidimka]

"Everything must work in a system, including aircraft carriers. We have called them sea-borne aircraft carrier systems, which will be based in the Northern and Pacific Fleets. The construction of such systems will begin after 2012," Vysotsky said before reviewing a military parade on the occasion of Navy Day in Russia.

Vysotsky said new sea-borne aircraft carrier systems will operate in close contact with Russia's orbital group of military satellites, and also with the Air Force and air defense.


What do they mean by that? Do they mean a pure aircraft carrier with support group eg destroyers, ASW and tankers, or do they mean moskva class carriers which are not full carriers but aircraft carrying cruisers? which does both jobs of carriying aircrafts and self defence missiles?


Frankly i'd prefer a real carrier with its support groups.

 

[KiwiRob]

Like this is going to happen within my life time, I know how long it takes a Russian yard to build a tanker which isn't a very complicated ship to design and construct. From looking at Wikipedia first steel was cut on Nimitz in 1968 to commissioning of Lincoln (the fifth Nimitz) in 1989 was 21 years, I bet the Russians would struggle to launch 2 ships. I haven't even taken into account designing the ship. However I do live in hope, a ship of that size will require a lot of light and I might get to sell a few thousand into each hull.

 

[Jon K]

What do they mean by that? Do they mean a pure aircraft carrier with support group eg destroyers, ASW and tankers, or do they mean moskva class carriers which are not full carriers but aircraft carrying cruisers? which does both jobs of carriying aircrafts and self defence missiles?

If the Russian Navy has real plans for 5-6 aircraft carriers this will mean LPD/LHA/Whatever ship configured a la INS Vikramaditya conversion, thus eliminating the need to develop a V/STOL aircraft. Otherwise, there's no chance at all that Russian Navy will procure such a number of carriers.

If they were really serious about this, they would probably contract out the construction to a South Korean shipyard. Russia does have a number of defense co-operation programs with South Korea. Unfortunately for Russian taxpayers the Russian pork-distribution machinery won't permit this.

 

[Feanor]

These are supposed to be real carriers. Otherwise there would be no need for a 100 000 dry dock. The Kuznetsov is only iirc 42 500 tons, and it's about as large as a TAKR needs to be. They're also envisioned as working within a system designed for them, rather then as simple flagships, or just seaborne airbases. This scheme of course leaves no room for any other capital class ships in the VMF, so the Kirov-class is the last of their kind. There are also plans to build a training center for carrier take-off simulations in Russia, so that the Crimean one isn't needed any more.

 

[gf0012-aust]

There are also plans to build a training center for carrier take-off simulations in Russia, so that the Crimean one isn't needed any more.

Already happened.....