Royal Saudi Navy capability and threats

[AtaSaudi]

I noticed that there is no thread on the Royal Saudi Navy Forces (RSNF). So I thought I should start one.


According to the Military Balance 2008 issued by the International Institute of Strategic Studies (IISS), the RSNF consists of:


Two fleets: Eastern (the Gulf) Western (the Red Sea).

15000 troops + 3000 Marines.

7 frigates: 3 Al Riyadh + 4 Madina.

4 corvettes: Badr (US Tacoma).

65 Patrol and costal combatants.

7 Maine warfare and Countermeasure.

8 Amphibious.


The RSNF also consists of Naval Aviation.

 

[AtaSaudi]

Iran threats to shut oil lanes in the gulf if it were attacked.

Does anyone have an idea how Saudi Arabia should/may respond to this?.

 

[bolheed]

Iran Defence

Well i hate to break it to you mate but Iran has about 38,000 navy men(inluding IRGC),and a sophisticated navy that has a priority of defence.So in case Iran blocks the Hermoz strait as it promised if attacked,no one can stop it.And Trust me i've heard it and seen it from many Military analysts and they believe that it is impossible to stop Iran from doing that.Not the Saudies and not even the Americans can stop the Iranians from doing that.They have submarines KILO class,mine vessels,the fastest under water missile in the world,more than 1500 patrol boats fitted with missiles and machine guns,frigates,several missile boats,and above all Sunburn and exocette anti-ship missiles which are the world's most deadly,it produces its own Destroyers,submarines,and its navy has access to almost 600 aircraft.
It has conducted several wargames demonstrating its capability to shut down and close Hermoz striat.So i think that Iran knows where it hurts stratigicaly speaking and trust me on this one they are The Middle East's greatest Military Power mate.
Hope you got the point.
If anyone has any discussion,well bring it on :gun

 

[Feanor]

Iran has Sunburn missiles? Source please. As far as I know, only China has bought them. As for the 600 aircraft, what are they? Well lets see; the cream of the crop consists of early Fulcrums, a handful of Tomcats, and another handful of Fencers. Not much. The rest is F-5's and F-5 clones. Fun stuff. It would be a Turkey shoot for USAF fighter jocks. I'm not too well versed in submarine and anti-sub warfare, but I seriously doubt that they can even remotely stand up to a single CVBG, nevermind several. As for the little gunboats, I'm not even sure why you brought it up. They might be useful for terrorist attacks, but in an open engagement it would look something like this: (hint, click on it, it's a 3 sec. vid)

 

[bolheed]

Strategic Analysis

The United States wrecked havock upon the Russians for providing iran with Sunburn Missiles,you can refer to the press of the white house and that happened in 2001 when Iranian officials visited Russia and a test was conducted to the sunburn missile and as Russian officials said the Iranians ordered more than 1000 Missile.You can also Check RENSE Website and check Iran,the link is not attached so you need to search Iran in it and you'll find it easily.
Patrol boats,i think you thought small boats,the Iranian patrol boats are produced in Iran,and they are not small,Anti-ship missiles are fitted on them so no "terrorist" attacks will be used and in defence you cant use "terrorist"because its simply called defence.
Any how Frigates,destroyers and corvetts are also updated Chinese C-802 missiles which effect are known since the Lebanese-israely war when Saaer 5 was struck with a single missile and nearly sunk even though the hit was to the far end of the vessel,so just imagine what a rainfire could do.
2 Aircraft carriers along with destroyers and so on are stationed in the gulf agianst the Iranian navy,and dont forget what a single patrol boat earlier this year did to a destroyer when they were scared to hell by it.So any way if you have read about the Folkland war,when britain was using aircraft carriers and a single exocette missile fired from an argentinien jet nearly sunk the carrier,so 1 exocette missle did that and they only had 5 missile in the entire arsenal and later on analysists said that if they had more they would have won the war.
And its known to children that Iran has 1500+ missiles of this type.
So as you see its blocked like hells fire,they can never do anything against the iranian navy,they have airdefence systems which have a range of more than 15 km so they can station them at the coast and not a single jet can come near or try to bomb Iranian boats or vessels against hermoz strait.
Now i can go on and on,with mine vessels wchich triggered a battle between the U.S and iran in the 1988's so they can do a hell of a damage mate.

The core of Iran's fighting ships are several Chinese, French and Iranian made small "missile" boats. In particular, there are five Chinese Cat-14 fast attack catamarans of very recent design and build. These catamarans are believed to travel at 50 knots (93 km/h), and are extremely stable and mobile. All five are armed with the latest design of Chinese anti-ship missiles. The rest of Iran's navy consists of around 250 small costal and inshore patrol craft.

About the airforce,sure they still have tomcats and f-4s,but never underestimate the capability of their newly owned jets and even Home built.
HESA Azarakhsh (Iran) Number 36,and many other iranina made jets.
Those purchases that struck many enemies...

Su-30
It was reported by Jerusalem Post that Iran has signed an arms deal with the Russian Rosoboronexport arms group to buy 250 Su-30 MKM warplanes and 20 Il-78 MKI aerial tankers.it is reported that Israeli defense officials were investigating the potential Iran-Russia deal, in which Iran would pay $1 billion a dozen squadrons’ worth of the jets.[1]It is rumored that the first aircraft would have been delivered before the end of 2007. This sale would give Iran the largest and probably the most powerful air force in the Middle East. Iran and Russia have both denied this and have rejected these claims as propaganda.[2][3][4]


J-10
The Russian news agency Novosti reported that Business & Financial Markets said Iran has signed a deal with China to buy two squadrons/24 of J-10 fighter planes with Russian-made AL-31FN engines. The total cost of the planes is estimated at $1 billion, and deliveries are expected between 2008 and 2010. China denied that it had agreed to sell its homegrown fighter jets to Iran, saying no talks had taken place. Foreign Ministry spokesman Liu Jianchao told reporters: "It's not true, it is an irresponsible report, China has not had talks with Iran on J-10 jets."[5][6][7]


MiG-29SMT
Some sources also report that next to Su-30s (and S300 SAMs) Iran also wants to purchase newer variants of the MiG-29 like the MiG-29SMT.[citation needed]


Super 7 or Chao Qi fighter plane
According to Global Security, in July 2003 Chengdu Aircraft Industrial Corporation (CAIC) unveiled the new ‘Super-7’ or Chao Qi fighter plane to the public. The plane is being produced to be sold abroad to developing nations. China already has received orders from Iran.[2]


MiG 31
again according to Global Security there are MiG 31 (Russia's most modern fighter aircraft worth of 41 million Dollars )among other fighters in Iranian purchase NOTE: this is not confirmed. [3]

You can check out wiki for more info,global security,and others.you know i am not making them up you can check those sources,i m just analyising mate...
Care for more :gun :gun :gun :gun


Post edited to remove more similies than the rules allow,the max is 8, you had 17.

 

[kato]

RENSE Website

I stopped trying to read that post there. Seriously. "Alternative News Service" my ass.

 

[ASFC]

RENSE Website

nfloorl: sorry agree with Kato on that.
But just a couple of points

Any how Frigates,destroyers and corvetts are also updated Chinese C-802 missiles which effect are known since the Lebanese-israely war when Saaer 5 was struck with a single missile and nearly sunk even though the hit was to the far end of the vessel,so just imagine what a rainfire could do.

This is a prime example of what happens when you turn all of your missile defence systems off, I wouldn't expect America and her allies to be that stupid for every warship they have.

So any way if you have read about the Folkland war,when britain was using aircraft carriers and a single exocette missile fired from an argentinien jet nearly sunk the carrier,so 1 exocette missle did that and they only had 5 missile in the entire arsenal and later on analysists said that if they had more they would have won the war.

No, if they had more Exocets, they would have delayed the war until the next summer, whilst their navy hid in port because our SSNs would still have been on station. And no an Exocet did not nearly sink our carriers. 5/6 missiles where fired by the Args during the conflict, four by aircraft, 2 from land batteries on the Falkands. Three hit. One sank the Sheffield, one sank the Atlantic Conveyor, and 1 hit and damaged the Glamorgan. For a long while the Argentinians thought the Atlantic Conveyor was a carrier, and failed to realise the signifcance of destroying the Chooks she carried. And again the Falklands is a bad example as missile defence today is not what it was back then.

I do not know enough to comment on what Iran has or has not.

 

[kato]

The rest of Iran's navy consists of around 250 small costal and inshore patrol craft.

Around 110 Boghammar-style craft of around 5 tons, armed with at most a recoilless rifle or a 57mm MRL.
Around 20 small inshore torpedo attack craft.
Around 60 somewhat larger inshore patrol craft (30-80 tons) armed with automatic guns.
Around 25 missile-armed FACs.

To get this thread back into focus a bit, the Saudi-Arabian Eastern Fleet includes around 15 missile-armed FACs and corvettes, and around 30 patrol craft of the above third category.

Feanor: you forgot their F-4s btw. primary naval strike force.

 

[bolheed]

Clearing it out for you guys!

About the Rense website,i dont think that a single person can rule it out.
Wiki and globalsecurity,stratfor were among the Sources,so you should consider them too.

The missile system on saaer was not turned off the officers just ignored it thinking that the defenders had no defence,and the missile was evasive so its impossible to stop it,as you know 3 missiles were fired,1 struck saaer and the others hit targets(vessels)thought to be Military targets afterwards and saaer defences couldnt stop those either.

Currently Russia has the lead in the Missile defence systems as you all know,and they made sure that they made an anti-ship missile that was unstoppable,Sunburn was one of those missiles,2.5 Mach,the other threat the Sunburn poses is it's destructive force.The Sunburn flys at 300m initially and then dives down to below 7m for the last 70km or so. Travelling at mach 2.5 it covers about 750m/s and performs manouvers just before impact to avoid gunfire and make interception difficult. The Sunburn skims the sea and pops up at the last seconds to slam down on the decks of ships. The combined speed and warhead payload would be devastating to all ships in the US arsenal. Phalanx defence system used on U.S ships was proved unworthy of defending against this missile,but some say in thoery bla bla,so i say remember the USS Stark could also defeat a missile like the Exocet ( in theory ) but didn't, and nearly got cut in half.

You cant prove anything untill tested in the battle thats true,but an overview can be taken from previos battles,"and thats why i brought up the falkland war,to give an example on what anti-ship missile of that age can do so imagine what these modern missiles can do,and also a new version,newer than sunburn was produced,the (Onyx).

Just remember guys everything has a price.And Kato try to read the whole post next time so you could see globalsecurity,wiki,and Fas.

So i believe this proves that no single U.S ship can face lets say 10 missiles fired from more than 500 navy boats which can quikly handle U.S ships,and further more that missile can be launched from surface so they can aslo fire it up from the coast and with that range the Whole of hermoz strait is under Iranian Fire guys.

Thats all as i think.
care for more :gun :gun :gun :gun

 

[AegisFC]

The missile system on saaer was not turned off the officers just ignored it thinking that the defenders had no defence,and the missile was evasive so its impossible to stop it,as you know 3 missiles were fired,1 struck saaer and the others hit targets(vessels)thought to be Military targets afterwards and saaer defences couldnt stop those either.

Funny thing, every report of the incident I've seen said that the ships defenses were off line.

unworthy of defending against this missile,but some say in thoery bla bla,so i say remember the USS Stark could also defeat a missile like the Exocet ( in theory ) but didn't, and nearly got cut in half.

Bad example. The Starkes Phalanx was offline and the ship itself had no reason to expect an attack. The ship was not nearly cut in half either, and she was sea worthy enough to make it back to Mayport under her own power.

So i believe this proves that no single U.S ship can face lets say 10 missiles fired from more than 500 navy boats which can quikly handle U.S ships,and further more that missile can be launched from surface so they can aslo fire it up from the coast and with that range the Whole of hermoz strait is under Iranian Fire guys.

Just 10 missiles? Aegis is designed to handle almost double that number at any one time with either SM-2's or ESSM's. The USN has been practicing mass anti-ship missile attack tactics since the 60's, and they had a much more menacing opponent than Iran, one who could bring many more units to bear and actually stand a chance of breaking AAW defenses. Active defenses are just part of a ships defense, when you add in shipborne EW, chaff, flares, the other goodies you can launch out of a SRBOC, Nulka and airborne EW the chances of hitting an alert Tico or Burke is very small.

 

[StevoJH]

I'm sorry to bring this up, but could you possibly read through your post before you post it? Do Irans speed boats fire 10 missiles between the 500 of them or 10 each?

And last time i checked, the iranian's home built "frigate" was a 1,400t corvette.

Honestly, the greatest threat to a coalition task force from the Iranians would probably be their three Kilo class SSK's. Assuming they are actually at sea of course.

 

[kato]

Honestly, the greatest threat to a coalition task force from the Iranians would probably be their three Kilo class SSK's.

Not in the Gulf. They're far too big to be of any use (same goes for any USN SSNs in that area btw). With that size, you can just about go to periscope depth, and that's it.

And Kato try to read the whole post next time so you could see globalsecurity,wiki,and Fas.

Globalsec is eventually just a plug for FAS. FAS is sadly outdated in the last couple years. Wikipedia is not a source.
My numbers are from Jane's.

As for the missiles, the 25 missile-armed FACs constitute mobile launch capability for less than 100 C-802. Combined. That's it, spread over 1000 km coastline. And to add to that, these FACs are split between two separate navies that rarely cooperate.

 

[swerve]

Not in the Gulf. They're far too big to be of any use (same goes for any USN SSNs in that area btw). With that size, you can just about go to periscope depth, and that's it.....

Depth chart - http://www.ssc.erc.msstate.edu/Tides2D/persian_gulf.html

The water is generally very clear.

 

[Super Nimrod]

I know we have slightly drifted off the original thread but the straits would be quite easy to close. At its narrowest the main shipping channel is 6 miles wide and only about 40-75 m deep. Its also very close to the shore. A few well placed VLCC block ships in that area and it could pretty well close it to large traffic. The 14-16 large tankers that Iran has chartered in the last few months for long term oil storage might be a good starting point if someone was planning anything like that.

I have no doubt that even Iran would be perfectly capable of fielding enough land based artillery to close off that piece of water as well if it wanted. It wouldn't need anything as high tech as missiles. Narrow waterways will always be difficult to keep open when they are against a hostile shore.

And thats before you start worrying about insurers, owners and crews who might not want to run any blockade no matter how weak.

 

[bolheed]

Try to read through Guys!

Research sunburn and you will see that till now not a single gunship defence or any other kind of defences can stop it,and you an easily figure that 5 missile launched are truely impossible to get stopped.Iran has thousands of anti-ship defence missiles,these are mostly home made,and the source is Iranian officials.So whether Aegis defence can engage targets or not,you must realize that Sunburn cannot be stopped,if you may check its capabilities and its evasive manouvers which as Russians say are unstoppalbe.So as i said lets say 5 missiles were launched at each single warship,whatss the outcome?Devastating as you could imagine.

When i said nealy cut in half,i meant NEARLY,so sure it made it back,but never the less an addition missile could have eliminated it.Every time a ship gets struck they say the defences were offline,i mean common why the hell do you use them for.But thats not the discussion here.

Continuing, Kato,if you may refer to wiki and check ut its sources,those writers who write the Military data have full access to Jane's,IISS Military Balance 2006-7-8,and the most sophisticated analyisis to exist and thus it is considered very resoucefull.Every info they list has a source and thats why you saying its not a source its wrong,because it refers to Jane's which you considered earlier to be your resource.

I use aslo Gov. websites, which are known of their credit and globalsecurity has its reputation.Fas is a little outdated but i didnt use it for recent info.Just some analysis.

Forget the use of Subs,but dont forget that the Fastest underwater torpedo in the world is Iranian,and they have loads of it which means on a large scale applyiance no defence in the world stands a chance.

Iran Has 10 billion dollarsbudget which is spent alomost entirley on defence factors such as missiles and stuff so they are well prepared and they are not going to engage with the U.S if they arent,right?If the U.S officials werent really updated about Iranian Military Force they would have attacked yet,and not resorted to inside secret distabilation measures.

Good Point by Super Nimrod,iran has its own missile industry which also has the capacity to produce tens of thousands of missiles,and currently they have that number in their arsenal(Iranian Officials and Jane's check missile part)So in any engagment using land forces they can shut down the strait easliy,simple artillary would do the job,and finish the task.

Just look through,10 billion dollars and growing,almost all defences are Iranian made,all made in the Defence Department with Iranian hands,this method of production has an astonishing affect on the cost,which makes it incredible small,not using private sectures and evading curruption.They have been preparing for years and their most struck point (besides Israel and Iraq)is the Hermuz strait,so trust me on this one they are extremely well prepared.
And finally guys try to read through what i m posting and not repeating same matters discussed.
Care for More :gun :gun

 

[swerve]

Block ships have to be got into position. What happens when the first one goes down? Where are the others? What would be the reaction to Irans storage ships weighing anchor en masse & setting off for the straits?

Land-based artillery, & shore-based anti-ship missiles - certainly they could block the strait. But for how long?

As for insurers & owners - the Gulf Arab states are perfectly capable (enough money) of buying ships, or chartering them & providing their own insurance, i.e. bearing any losses themselves. I'm sure crews could be found, for enough money - and I reckon you could sail through the most dangerous section with a skeleton crew, one shift, & put the rest aboard when the worst of the danger is past. Costs would go up a lot, but compared to the cost of not exporting oil, the Gulf Arab states would think it a bargain.

 

[bolheed]

Steven!

Yea and steven each boat has the ability to fire 10 Missiles each,so that makes it 5000 missile if they want,without counting Missile Batteries that are installed on the shores.
But remember we are talking on a full retalliation scale which Iranians have promised anyforce that attacks them,so they will use all the military Power in their Hands,and thus their astonishing capabilities and i havent started talking about their other methods of defence here such as attacking israel and troops stationed in the counties surrounding Iran.
I guess that covers it up.

 

[bolheed]

Take Iran power in mind!

Block ships have to be got into position. What happens when the first one goes down? Where are the others? What would be the reaction to Irans storage ships weighing anchor en masse & setting off for the straits?

Land-based artillery, & shore-based anti-ship missiles - certainly they could block the strait. But for how long?

As for insurers & owners - the Gulf Arab states are perfectly capable (enough money) of buying ships, or chartering them & providing their own insurance, i.e. bearing any losses themselves. I'm sure crews could be found, for enough money - and I reckon you could sail through the most dangerous section with a skeleton crew, one shift, & put the rest aboard when the worst of the danger is past. Costs would go up a lot, but compared to the cost of not exporting oil, the Gulf Arab states would think it a bargain.

Thats true,they can hold the losses but what i said is that no one will be able to free the strait,the Iranians have the capability to shutdown the Whole strait for months,they have the resources to do that,mine laying and around the clock patrolling,and remember its takes a couple of ship to close the strait down,6 miles wide for crying out load,it only needs a couple of tanker ships burning and thats that.

At one time an Iranian official said that they have the capacity to produce as much missiles(Shahab 3 missile)as they produce a type of car.Now guess what turns they produce around 4500 cars,and thus that makes 5000 Shahab 3,2000 km range missile produce every year,so anti-ship missiles which are a hell less cheaper and easier to produce can be mass produced in case of a full scale war,were all costs are accepeted.so the shut down could go for as much time as the Iranians wish.

They have the technology,the men,the money and the equipment to do that.

 

[Grand Danois]

Ooohh! Here is a legendary thread title: Sunburst: The Invincible?

Could someone post a picture of a Sunburn or an S-300 from an Iranian parade or in Iranian markings?

It would be quite a challenge, because there are no such things.

The Skhval is of little use for the Iranians - it is best as a snap shot nuke delivery vehicle. The Russians must have been wearing a wide grin all the way to the bank.

 

[Galrahn]

Did someone say parade and Iran in the same sentence on a Navy forum?

In tribute of the propaganda infesting the Saudi thread, I give you the Navy RENSE warned you about.

Seriously, there are two things always ignored about the Iranian Navy, they don't have modern sonar, and it has no anti-aircraft defenses.

The first point makes preventing covert strikes from submarines very difficult, not to mention there isn't much it can do about a submarine cruise missile strike or worse, a blockade at a major Iranian port.

But the second point is dangerous for Iran, because it has been said many times, with JSTARS the Iranian small boat forces in the Gulf looks a lot like an Iraqi Tank Division did in the desert in 1991, and we all remember how that worked out.