That's right, the US does not want to destroy China. What US wants, is an economically strong China, but militarily controlled by US, just like Japan or other US satellite state.
In the event of...
- Thread starter BojnoX
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PullerRommel
New Member
Ya through war. but I seriously doubt the US would even consider invading China. Casualties ,i think, would be much to high.
BojnoX
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- #24
I don't think China would let themselves be under our control. They're much too strong as a culture, let alone a country. The attrition rate would be enormous; think of how many soldiers are against the current war in Iraq and Afghanistan, we wouldn't have an army to fight with.
Ozzy Blizzard
New Member
Are you guys seriously considering an occupation of CONUS? Red Dawn styles? Are you frigging kidding me? Never ever ever going to happen, even if the US is defeated in conventional terms, the worlds largest nuclear power would simply turn the big scary bad guys into a pancake (along with 1/4 of the planet). Therefore even if the US is defeated conventionally it will never be occupied.
Game over comrades... :lol3
Game over comrades... :lol3
See i think the Red Dawn approach is probably the only way it is remotelly conceivable to invade the USA. A forced landing on any part of the states is fairly impossible. Too well defended in the sense that it pits the strongest part of the US armed forces (Navy and Air force) against the weakest of the Chinese forces (Navy) and the Chinese are the only realistic enemies i can see with any potential (Maybe the Chinese and Russians allying.. possibly)
A more realistic way to do it would be to get nice and cosy to a Latin American country. I was thinkin Venezuela at first but the US would simply bomb it back to the stone age the second it got wind of it. I would say Brazil would be the best bet. Large, Democratic, and on relativelly friendly terms with the rest of the world.
Once your nice and cosy then establish a few bases there. Maybe a naval base or 3 and several army and air force bases. Then, over a period of a couple of years start moving in the troops, slowly at first untill you have enough assets in place to defend against an attack and then when the games up start bringing over divisions in bulk. All at the same time whilst vetoing any UN resolution as well as feeding problems to keep the US busy in other parts of the world (Iraq, Iran, whoever).
Invent an enemy of Brazils and use that as an excuse to 'protect' your new ally as well as using the excuse of protecting oil fields, etc. People may start getting suspicious when you go from 1 to 10 to 70 divisions but you carry on like nothings happening. All at the same time as acting as peaceful and as pleasant as you can be, hell, even give back Tibet if you must (You can always reinvade later) As long as the stupid western masses believe your a friend of small furry animals and orphaned children.
Then one day, with no warning... INVADE. You will be using the strongest part of the Chinese military against the weakest part of the US military (The armies) Push North no matter the cost, noone said its going to be a walk in the park. wave after wave of infantry divisions fighting up Central America, no need to use the heavier stuff yet. The US will obviously try to intervene, but the Chinese standing army is massive, and the US will need the time to pull the reserves, introduce conscription etc.
By the point you have gotten to the US/Mexico border you may have eaten up a couple of dozen or more infantry and mechanised divisions but you have well and trully bled most of the professional US Army or gone a good way towards it. THEN you unleash your A units, your combined arms groups, your digital armored divisions and brigade combat teams etc.
You will be using the varsity of your forces against US reserves and conscripts as well as what remains of the professional forces. They will be outnumbered and the skill and technological advantage has been almost nullified. Again you will receive massive casualties, but you can.. the United States cant.
Dont stop till you capture Canada. Leave nothing in North and South America the US could use as a base of operations for the units based outside CONUS to marshall themselves.
At the same time, threaten the US with nuclear holocoust if it attacks with WMD. Dont use any of yours and treat all prisoners and civilians that dont fight back with decency. Make them understand through carrot and stick that surrender is the only option.
There is no point in the US going nuclear if it knows that it will only be sacraficing its population for no good reason.
As to the militias... Where is CNN now??? SLAUGHTER THEM. Who cares if your tactics may seem a little nasty. China can control its media (not that it needs to.. its media is pro Beijing without even being told nowdays.. it just knows).
Once hostilities are over then treat the USA as a Hong Kong. One China 3 systems. Make the new government not too different in the way it smells to the last. Just no guns or criticism of the government allowed.
After a while they will get used to it when they discover that to submit means to prosper and to resist means that you and your family will have their backs to a wall.
Thats how i would do it anyways. :lam
A more realistic way to do it would be to get nice and cosy to a Latin American country. I was thinkin Venezuela at first but the US would simply bomb it back to the stone age the second it got wind of it. I would say Brazil would be the best bet. Large, Democratic, and on relativelly friendly terms with the rest of the world.
Once your nice and cosy then establish a few bases there. Maybe a naval base or 3 and several army and air force bases. Then, over a period of a couple of years start moving in the troops, slowly at first untill you have enough assets in place to defend against an attack and then when the games up start bringing over divisions in bulk. All at the same time whilst vetoing any UN resolution as well as feeding problems to keep the US busy in other parts of the world (Iraq, Iran, whoever).
Invent an enemy of Brazils and use that as an excuse to 'protect' your new ally as well as using the excuse of protecting oil fields, etc. People may start getting suspicious when you go from 1 to 10 to 70 divisions but you carry on like nothings happening. All at the same time as acting as peaceful and as pleasant as you can be, hell, even give back Tibet if you must (You can always reinvade later) As long as the stupid western masses believe your a friend of small furry animals and orphaned children.
Then one day, with no warning... INVADE. You will be using the strongest part of the Chinese military against the weakest part of the US military (The armies) Push North no matter the cost, noone said its going to be a walk in the park. wave after wave of infantry divisions fighting up Central America, no need to use the heavier stuff yet. The US will obviously try to intervene, but the Chinese standing army is massive, and the US will need the time to pull the reserves, introduce conscription etc.
By the point you have gotten to the US/Mexico border you may have eaten up a couple of dozen or more infantry and mechanised divisions but you have well and trully bled most of the professional US Army or gone a good way towards it. THEN you unleash your A units, your combined arms groups, your digital armored divisions and brigade combat teams etc.
You will be using the varsity of your forces against US reserves and conscripts as well as what remains of the professional forces. They will be outnumbered and the skill and technological advantage has been almost nullified. Again you will receive massive casualties, but you can.. the United States cant.
Dont stop till you capture Canada. Leave nothing in North and South America the US could use as a base of operations for the units based outside CONUS to marshall themselves.
At the same time, threaten the US with nuclear holocoust if it attacks with WMD. Dont use any of yours and treat all prisoners and civilians that dont fight back with decency. Make them understand through carrot and stick that surrender is the only option.
There is no point in the US going nuclear if it knows that it will only be sacraficing its population for no good reason.
As to the militias... Where is CNN now??? SLAUGHTER THEM. Who cares if your tactics may seem a little nasty. China can control its media (not that it needs to.. its media is pro Beijing without even being told nowdays.. it just knows).
Once hostilities are over then treat the USA as a Hong Kong. One China 3 systems. Make the new government not too different in the way it smells to the last. Just no guns or criticism of the government allowed.
After a while they will get used to it when they discover that to submit means to prosper and to resist means that you and your family will have their backs to a wall.
Thats how i would do it anyways. :lam
Ha-ha. The original question was if occupation work. NOT if USA army could be defeated. This is entirely another matter.
The answer - IF regular USA army is defeated (including nuclear forces, let it be green humanoids from Tau-Ceti ) - then occupation might work depending if invading forces are ready to conduct very harsh behavior toward civilians. Simply as that.
BojnoX
New Member
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- #28
Both of you came up with excellent points. Come to think of it, the original question isn't all that important, we're still in the general area. Besides, that would probably work... Maybe we should get rid of it before someone uses our ideas?:idea2
PullerRommel
New Member
Someones going to be monitored.... 
Has anyone played World in Conflict because in the game the Soviets invade the US through Portland by arriving in Cargo ships. Its quite good. They get defeated of course.
Has anyone played World in Conflict because in the game the Soviets invade the US through Portland by arriving in Cargo ships. Its quite good. They get defeated of course.
It's bullsh*t. You need a ridiculous number of cargo ships. And it's not just a matter of landing. It's a matter of supplying your forces across a hostile sea. It's a matter of air support which is impossible without carrier support. It's a matter of reinforcements, C2, and many other things that make it impossible.
BojnoX
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- #32
I own the game; if you remember, the Allied forces were already engaged in a pitched battle over Europe, meaning that U.S. forces were drawn off into Europe. Now, U.S. Forces are engaged in a war in Iraq and Afghanistan, leaving the U.S. with ~177,000 less U.S. Army, Reserves, National Guard, etc... I wonder if anyone in our government realized what National Guards are for - maybe guarding our nation? We don't have the cargo capacity to bring our troops home all at once. We would have to 'borrow' regular airliners for the troops, with heavy Air Force lifters for the armor and supply units, and probably cargo ships would be 'borrowed'. And these would have to be protected on their way home, meaning that if they came under attack, we might start losing combat personnel and equipment. That's 1/10 of our entire military, if I figure correctly, that would be in danger. However, if the U.S. does notice some Central/South American country coming under someone's 'arm', they might just start bringing troops home. Then again, most people like to believe that they would never, ever, get attacked...so, based on that assumption, we would be caught in a two-fronted war, including the home front. By the way, has anyone read the book Red Army, by Ralph Peters? In there, everything is from the Soviet point of view. Not exactly what we're talking about, but the general concepts are similiar; Speed - shock the enemy into making mistakes, and to encircle and 'trap' enemy forces so that if nuclear weapons become a question, you have hostages to say 'look, we don't want to die in here'. The NATO forces never expected a war; they may have been 'prepared', but they had no fixed defenses, and so they waited until attack was imminent to build them (this was only in the book; actual NATO fixed defenses of that time period, i don't know), and Soviet forces moved too fast for fixed defenses to work. Which is why fixed defenses are only used when you have no room for a mobile defense.
Barring the sudden appearance of new weapon systems that are as far above current capacity as the A-Bomb was above conventional explosives, the possibility of a successful invasion of the US mainland is effectively zero. The reasons have already been outlined.
An attack of some sort, however, is entirely possible.
Another even similar to the WTC attacks, perhaps involving a WMD is quite within reason.
Alternatively, consider an unconventional attack affecting the US economy and means of production.
Peter
An attack of some sort, however, is entirely possible.
Another even similar to the WTC attacks, perhaps involving a WMD is quite within reason.
Alternatively, consider an unconventional attack affecting the US economy and means of production.
Peter
BojnoX
New Member
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- #34
Well, our economy is getting pretty weird. Inflation, gas prices, 1 in 20 houses are in foreclosure. It probably wouldn't take much to make it all tumble down. But there are no countries ready to strike us if it does, and I can't imagine a civil war... I mean, along what lines would the sides be struck? Left versus Right? Orson Scott Card wrote a book along those lines, entitled Empire, if I remember correctly (My copy is on my bookshelves somewhere). So while we would have to pull back our troops and rebuild, what would everyone else be doing? While the 'World's police' are indisposed, what kind of problems would spring up?
-China and Taiwan
-Russia and its ex-Soviet Socialist Republics
-Colombia and its neighbors, possibly?
-Mexico is being ripped apart internally by drug lords with more money and less fear than Mexico's own police.
-China into Russia's vast, virtually untapped Eastern areas?
-China and Taiwan
-Russia and its ex-Soviet Socialist Republics
-Colombia and its neighbors, possibly?
-Mexico is being ripped apart internally by drug lords with more money and less fear than Mexico's own police.
-China into Russia's vast, virtually untapped Eastern areas?
Don't make the mistake of just thinking "now".
Think in terms of decades.
What if you have a rapidly developing economy and a large population. Looking to the future, you might well covet your neighbour's resources or living space. If you are thinking that in maybe 20 years, you might like to indulge in a little local conquest without US intervention, you might think it worth your while to try and engineer a situation in which the US is (a) spending a lot less on the military and (b) looking inwards at internal problems, rather than outwards.
Recall that the Japanese strategy in WW2 contained the idea that they could conquer the Pacific area before the US could prevent them, and then convince the US voters thatthe cost of kicking them out was too great. In that case, they badly underestimated US national resolve and willingness to fight once given the incentive ....... but what if you were thinking of repeating history whilst taking steps to ensure that the US population was unlikely to support a war this time?
No democracy can long sustain a major war that is not supported by the majority of voters. Some might consider that your weak point.
Peter
Think in terms of decades.
What if you have a rapidly developing economy and a large population. Looking to the future, you might well covet your neighbour's resources or living space. If you are thinking that in maybe 20 years, you might like to indulge in a little local conquest without US intervention, you might think it worth your while to try and engineer a situation in which the US is (a) spending a lot less on the military and (b) looking inwards at internal problems, rather than outwards.
Recall that the Japanese strategy in WW2 contained the idea that they could conquer the Pacific area before the US could prevent them, and then convince the US voters thatthe cost of kicking them out was too great. In that case, they badly underestimated US national resolve and willingness to fight once given the incentive ....... but what if you were thinking of repeating history whilst taking steps to ensure that the US population was unlikely to support a war this time?
No democracy can long sustain a major war that is not supported by the majority of voters. Some might consider that your weak point.
Peter
The only real threat to the US is gradual degradation of hegemony in regions outside of Europe and NA. Public opinion against US culture in foreign countries. Raids on worldwide US bases, invasion of US allies, only after many years of gradual and constant damage to the US could this occur. This is already underway in a limited extent. Every empire falls eventually. And whoever said invade Canada needs to GO to Canada (I live there). Canada is bigger than the USA. There are alot of rural people, and since we have a pretty low pop density it would be hard to monitor civvies. In addition, people don't realize that we own ALOT of guns. Most of them are hunting rifles, easily modified for sniping. Canada is also a HUGE country, The only potential aid to an occupier is that a third of the pop lives in the GTA (Greater Toronto Area, not Grand Theft Auto), and we have extensive highways. And yes, I have World In Conflict, the story isn't that outrageous, most of the US soldiers are overseas, and the USSR doesn't land a very large force.
PullerRommel
New Member
They do it to get the US out of Europe. The US does end up using a Tactical Nuke on the Soviets. The reason they invaded btw was because the US had just released "Star Wars" and the place were it was supposedly based. (Somewhere on the westcoast.) They were going straight for it. So the US used the TN to stop them from finding out ti was a hoax.
Hehehe. Anyone has more to fear from the U.S. government then from anyone else. Because it's the most powerful one on the planet.