F-X deal is back on. Brazil back in action

[drg]

Brazil to boost defense industry and acquire 36 fighter jets
Brazil plans a major increase of the armed forces budget and a long term boost to the local defense industry and military technology which includes the purchase of 36 fighter jets worth 2.2 billion US dollars revealed the Brazilian press over the weekend.

The announcement follows a recent decision by the President Lula da Silva administration to create a National Defence Strategy group designed to program the recovery of the “capability of our armed forces and the technological edge we once had in certain fields”. This will begin with a 50% hike of the defense budget as of next year which will total approximately 5 billion US dollars.

According to the main guidelines of the long term strategy outlined by President Lula da Silva Brazil’s, Brazilian defense industry must again take the lead in the export of missiles, aircrafts and several different kinds of equipment. “We must convince ourselves that we can become a world power this century”, pointed out Lula da Silva.

Although no details were given about the fighter planes purchase, the 2.2 billion US dollars operation must ensure military technology transfer to Brazil, said the Sao Paulo press reports. Currently 37% of the Air Force 719 units are grounded.

More Here:
http://www.mercopress.com/vernoticia.do?id=11806&formato=HTML
Like i said in my Brazil post in the General area
Ahem...
Waaaaazzzoooooooo!!!!

 

[Grand Danois]

Read the picture caption in the article and a smile will appear on your face.

 

[Todjaeger]

Read the picture caption in the article and a smile will appear on your face.

What, is that not accurate defence reporting?!

Perhaps the photo editor needs to change the prescription for their eye glasses, or at least spend more time cleaning the lenses.

Following that sort of SNAFU, it does lead to questioning the accuracy of the article. I would think that Brazil would be more interested in 2nd hand Mirage 2K's than new Rafales. Particularly since integration work is still ongoing with it and there are other defence areas might be looking at improving as well.

A question to ask would be how important is it to Brazil to get new, as opposed to 2nd hand aircraft, as well as what is the number desired.

-Cheers

 

[drg]

Give me a break!!!

Awww, poor little darlings...
Here you go:
http://www.flightglobal.com/article...reen-light-to-update-brazilian-air-force.html
Since you have a trouble with South American English and all.

 

[Tasman]

Awww, poor little darlings...
Here you go:
http://www.flightglobal.com/article...reen-light-to-update-brazilian-air-force.html
Since you have a trouble with South American English and all.

Well at least the photo with this article is a possible contender!

Tas

 

[Salty Dog]

The buzz in the air has the FX-2 RFPs to be issued in the latter half of 2008.

The major contenders touted are:

Dassualt Rafale
JAS Gripen
EADS Eurofighter
Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet
Lockheed F-35A Lightning II
Sukhoi Su-35 (or PAK FA)

 

[swerve]

EADS Eurofighter

BAe & Alenia might not like that description.

 

[Salty Dog]

BAe & Alenia might not like that description.

Thanks mate! My bust.

Eurofighter Typhoon

Rumour mill has the Rafale and F-35 as the top contenders.

 

[kato]

The Rafale would probably get some "plus points" for having a naval version available, same with the F-35 and F-18.

Throw in some discounts on those sides (i.e. carrier support) as well, and the rest can go home.

 

[Lostfleet]

This tender is for the Brazillian Air Force, however is there any ideas about joint or seperate acquisiton for the Navy as well? It would be nice to have some new aircraft for the ex-French Carrier.

 

[ROCK45]

Price seems low

The Brazilian government has given the service the green light to initiate an evaluation and selection process next January, and provided a $2.2 billion budget for the procurement.

Unofficially dubbed FX-2, the new project calls for the purchase of 36 aircraft in a single batch, in contrast to the stepped procurement originally envisaged for Brazil's previous F-X programme, which was formally abandoned late last yea

According to the above article they quote $2.2 billion for the budget seems too low? For that money Brazil will get a lot less then 36 aircraft. I'll attached a quote for the Morocco deal so we can get an idea on prices. Maybe the price quoted in the article isn't correct and it's $3.2 billion? On the list provided by Salty Dog as major contenders touted are:
Dassualt Rafale
JAS Gripen
EADS Eurofighter
Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet
Lockheed F-35A Lightning II
Sukhoi Su-35 (or PAK FA)

I know prices are difficult to really figure out but maybe the Gripen would come in the lowest with off sets involved? The Su-35 only a few models were built so there's no way of really knowing where it falls on the list until it goes into production. Aren't the others all above $100 million per if not more after goodies are added in? That's why I think the price is off a little.




Defense Security Cooperation Agency
NEWS RELEASE

Morocco - F-16C/D Block 50/52 Aircraft
WASHINGTON, December 18, 2007 – The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress of a possible Foreign Military Sale to Morocco of F-16C/D Block 50/52 aircraft as well as associated equipment and services. The total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $2.4 billion.
The Government of Morocco has requested a possible sale of:
Major Defense Equipment (MDE)
24 F-16C/D Block 50/52 aircraft with either the F100-PW-229 or
F110-GE-129 Increased Performance Engines (IPE) and APG-68(V)9 radars;
5 F100-PW-229 or F110-GE-129 IPE spare engines;
4 APG-68(V)9 spare radar sets;
30 AN/ALE-47 Countermeasures Dispensing Systems (CMDS)
30 AN/ALR-56M Radar Warning Receivers (RWR)
60 LAU-129/A Launchers;
30 LAU-117 Launchers;
6 Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems;
4 AN/ARC-238 Single Channel Ground and Airborne Radio System (SINCGAR)
radios with HAVE QUICK I/II;
24 Conformal Fuel Tanks (pairs);
4 Link-16 Multifunctional Information Distribution System-Low Volume
Terminals;
2 Link-16 Ground Stations;
4 Global Positioning Systems (GPS) and Embedded GPS/ Inertial Navigation
Systems (INS);
12 AN/AAQ-33 SNIPER Targeting Pods or AN/AAQ-28 LITENING Targeting
Pods
5 Tactical Air Reconnaissance Systems (TARS) or DB-110 Reconnaissance Pods
(RECCE);
4 AN/APX-113 Advanced Identification Friend or Foe (AIFF) Systems;
28 AN/ALQ-211 Advanced Integrated Defensive Electronic Warfare Suites
(AIDEWS); or 28 AN/ALQ-187 Advanced Self-Protection Integrated Suites
(ASPIS II); or 28 AN/ALQ-178 Self Protection Electronic Warfare Suites
(SPEWS)
1 Unit Level Trainer
Associated support equipment, software development/integration, tanker support, ferry services, CAD/PAD, repair and return, modification kits, spares and repair parts, publications and technical documentation, personnel
Northrop-Grumman Electronic Systems Baltimore, Maryland
training and training equipment, U.S. Government and contractor technical, engineering, and logistics support services, and other related elements of logistics support. The estimated cost is $2.4 billion.
The proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security objectives of the United States by enhancing Morocco’s capacity to support U.S. efforts in the Global War on Terrorism (GWOT), as well as supporting Morocco’s legitimate need for its own self-defense. Morocco is one of the most stable and pro-Western of the Arab states, and the U.S. remains committed to a long-term relationship with Morocco. The proposed sale will allow the Moroccan Air Force to modernize its aging fighter inventory, thereby enabling Morocco to support both its own air defense needs and coalition operations. Morocco is a Major Non-NATO ally. Delivery of this weapon system will greatly enhance Morocco’s interoperability with the U.S. and other NATO nations, making it a more valuable partner in an increasingly important area of the world. The country will have no difficulty absorbing this new capability into its armed forces.
The proposed sale of this weapon system will not affect the basic military balance in the region.
The principal contractors will be:
BAE Advanced Systems Greenlawn, New York
Boeing Corporation Seattle, Washington
Boeing Integrated Defense Systems St Louis, Missouri
(three locations) Long Beach, California
San Diego, California
Raytheon Company Lexington, Massachusetts
(two locations) Goleta, California
Raytheon Missile Systems Tucson, Arizona
Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company Fort Worth, Texas
Lockheed Martin Missile and Fire Control Dallas, Texas
Northrop-Grumman Electro-Optical Systems Garland, Texas
Pratt & Whitney United Technology Company East Hartford, Connecticut
General Electric Aircraft Engines Cincinnati, Ohio
Goodrich ISR Systems Danbury, Connecticut
L3 Communications Arlington, Texas
There are no known offset agreements in connection with this proposed sale.
Implementation of this proposed sale will require multiple trips to Morocco involving U.S. Government and contractor representatives for technical reviews/support, program management, and training over a period of 15 years.
There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale.
This notice of a potential sale is required by law; it does not mean that the sale has been concluded.
-30-

Link
http://www.dsca.mil/PressReleases/36...occo_08-20.pdf

 

[Salty Dog]

According to the above article they quote $2.2 billion for the budget seems too low? For that money Brazil will get a lot less then 36 aircraft. I'll attached a quote for the Morocco deal so we can get an idea on prices. Maybe the price quoted in the article isn't correct and it's $3.2 billion? On the list provided by Salty Dog as major contenders touted are:
Dassualt Rafale
JAS Gripen
EADS Eurofighter
Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet
Lockheed F-35A Lightning II
Sukhoi Su-35 (or PAK FA)

I know prices are difficult to really figure out but maybe the Gripen would come in the lowest with off sets involved? The Su-35 only a few models were built so there's no way of really knowing where it falls on the list until it goes into production. Aren't the others all above $100 million per if not more after goodies are added in? That's why I think the price is off a little.

The FMS package you reference includes spare engines, etc. If you take a ROM unit cost of say $60 million per (24) aircraft, it roughly comes to about $1.44 billion, short of the $2.4 billion package. In Brazil's case a ROM of $60 million per (36) aircraft comes to about $2.16 billion which is about the quoted figure. It would be reasonable to say Brazil would need at least another $1.0 billion to build as full package, probably not taken into account at this time. So your $3.2 billion price tag is more realistic. Nice observation mate.

 

[Feanor]

The PAK-FA has not even begun flight testing. It's completely unreasonable to put it on the list. At best the Su-35 (which is currently undergoing testing) but more likely the traditional Su-30MKX.

 

[Salty Dog]

The PAK-FA has not even begun flight testing. It's completely unreasonable to put it on the list. At best the Su-35 (which is currently undergoing testing) but more likely the traditional Su-30MKX.

I could not agree with you more mate. I was hesitant to put the PAK-FA in with the Su-35 at first, however it's appeared that way in the Brazilian press (which tends to speculate) and IMHO thought it should be kept to stimulate discussion.

 

[ROCK45]

Brazil issues 120-aircraft request to five fighter manufacturers

Some aircraft news from Brazil

Salty Dog on post #6 you were right

Brazil issues 120-aircraft request to five fighter manufacturers
By Craig Hoyle

Brazil has revived its delayed search for a next-generation multirole combat aircraft, and in early June issued requests for information to five bidders for its new F-X2 contest. Its initial requirement is for a batch of 36 fighters, although the total programme is for 120 aircraft to be delivered from 2014 until post-2020.

Bidders for the new contest have been restricted to the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Dassault Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon, Saab Gripen NG (Next Generation) and the Sukhoi Su-35. The selected type will replace some of the Brazilian air force's Alenia/Embraer AMX ground-attack aircraft and its upgraded Northrop F-5 fighters, plus a recently acquired batch of ex-French air force Dassault Mirage 2000s.
Industry sources say the RFI requests the delivery of an "established, proven airframe" with supersonic performance, network connectivity and multirole capabilities. The document does not specify whether companies should offer an active electronically scanned array radar with the aircraft, but says both within- and beyond-visual-range air-to-air missiles should be supplied.

The F-X2 programme also includes an offset requirement worth 100% of the total acquisition costs, with licensed manufacturing of the selected fighter's airframe, avionics and engines requested during the life of the programme.

Brazil's earlier F-X fighter contest was abandoned in 2005 due to budgetary pressures, and the replacement project had been tipped for launch early this year. However, the defence ministry's new shortlist will come as a disappointment to Lockheed, which was interested in offering its F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

Speaking earlier this month, Embraer officials said that unlike the previous contest, local industry will not be encouraged to partner directly with the bidding F-X2 companies, and that the Brazilian government and air force will instead head this part of the project.

Link
http://www.flightglobal.com/article...ft-request-to-five-fighter-manufacturers.html

 

[Feanor]

Any news on when we can expect a decision?

 

[Salty Dog]

Some aircraft news from Brazil

Speaking earlier this month, Embraer officials said that unlike the previous contest, local industry will not be encouraged to partner directly with the bidding F-X2 companies, and that the Brazilian government and air force will instead head this part of the project.

Now this is interesting as during the previous F-X competition there was a rush for manufacturers to partner with Brazilian firms. This could clearly give some competitors an unfair advantage as there is only one Brazilian company capable of such a partnership, EMBRAER. Discouraging this practice should even the new F-X competition.

 

[Salty Dog]

Any news on when we can expect a decision?

Brazil is very cash rich with a an economy showing stunning growth. The opposite was true during the original F-X competition when Brazil was in debt and low cash flow. Hence F-X1 was cancelled.

Brazilian decision makers tend be slow, however the trend has been to spend. The Brazilian Army, Air Force, and Navy have acquired or will acquire SH-70 Blackhawks and Seahawks.

Perhaps we should start a poll on which gets decided 1st. India's MRCA or Brazil's F-X2.

 

[ROCK45]

Brazil

Can you imagine Rafale going from no sales to maybe landing sales in the UAE, Greece, and Brazil? This is interesting because Brazil jumped from 36 aircraft to 120 aircraft on this F-X2 bid. That's a nice size order when you add in spares, weapons, and training. I think if the Rafale had the F/A-18 E/F radar in it they would be signing the dotted line already.

 

[Vivendi]

Can you imagine Rafale going from no sales to maybe landing sales in the UAE, Greece, and Brazil? This is interesting because Brazil jumped from 36 aircraft to 120 aircraft on this F-X2 bid. That's a nice size order when you add in spares, weapons, and training. I think if the Rafale had the F/A-18 E/F radar in it they would be signing the dotted line already.

Gripen may be an interesting alternative for Brazil. If they really are going to buy 120 fighters price could become an important parameter, and Gripen would be cheaper than Rafale. AFAIK, Gripen was much liked by the Brazilian Air Force in the previous assessment, however the short legs was probably an issue. With the Gripen NG this should be solved.

It's true that Brazil already operates French Mirage; OTOH, they also operate Saab EriEye; Gripen and EriEye were designed to operate in a networked environment. From the Flightglobal story:

Industry sources say the RFI requests the delivery of an "established, proven airframe" with supersonic performance, network connectivity and multirole capabilities.

Brazil also has some collaboration with South Africa, to develop A-Darter missiles for the South African Gripen and the Brazilian F-5, AMX and Super Tocanos.

(h)ttp://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/south-africa-brazil-to-develop-adarter-sraam-03286/

Buying Gripen would make it easier to collaborate with SA on future developments of weapons systems, if that's what Brazil wants to do.

As of today it seems to me that Gripen NG could be front-runner in Brazil...?



V.