Indian Navy (IN) News and Discussion

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contedicavour

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It's just about time India focused more heavily on amphibious capability. Building locally an evolved version of Mistrals would make sense (their IAC is an evolution of the Italian Cavour carrier) and allow for mobility of Indian marines for UN missions, for relief operations in case of natural disasters, and for influencing military strategies relating to Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh... more than an extra SSK or destroyer ever would. Imagine the weight a potential amphibious landing behind Pakistani lines would have ! For all their costs, a big LPD costs still less than half than a modern DDG.

cheers
 

niteshkjain

New Member
Bad news

http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=16c7d82a-f286-40d8-91a7-8dd639ead286

Scorpene project runs into rough weather
Rahul Singh, Hindustan Times

New Delhi, May 28, 2008
First Published: 01:57 IST(28/5/2008)
Last Updated: 02:01 IST(28/5/2008)

After the Russians failed to stick to the deadline for readying aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov for the Indian Navy, it is now the turn of the French to let India down. The Rs 18,798-crore Scorpene submarine project has run into rough weather due to delay in technology transfer.

The navy may not be able to induct the first submarine by the 2012 deadline, with the French yet to part with crucial details of technological know-how, including design and drawing documentation. A senior navy official confirmed to HT on Tuesday that the project had been delayed by a year due to “teething problems”.

The Scorpene deal was signed in October 2005.

The Mumbai-based Mazagon Docks Limited is to build six Scorpene submarines under the project, which would ultimately improve India’s indigenous capabilities in submarine design and construction. DCNS, the French firm that has developed the Scorpene, had assured the Indian Navy earlier this year that issues surrounding technology transfer had been taken care of and the first of the six Scorpene submarines would roll out by 2012. The remaining five are scheduled to follow at a rate of one per year.

However, the navy’s latest revelation on the status of the project is likely to fuel concerns about the depleting war-waging potential of the navy. In March 2003, the Defence Acquisition Council had said the force level of the navy should not dip below 142 ships and submarines. But the figure currently stands at 129. Worse, the navy’s stealth frigate and destroyer projects, worth Rs 19,763 crore, are also plagued with time and cost overruns.

Aside from the six submarines being built at Mazagon Docks, the Indian navy is exploring the option of adding six more submarines to its fledgling underwater arm. A global tender for the second line of submarines is planned for 2009. Apart from the German HDW and Russian Amur submarines, French firm DCNS would be eyeing a repeat order.

The navy’s existing submarine fleet is humble comprising a mere 16 conventional diesel-electric submarines, including 10 Russian Kilo-class, four German HDW-class and two vintage Foxtrot-class vessels. The Scorpene project is crucial for the navy given it will be left with just around 10 submarines by 2015.
 

kay_man

New Member
??

Any new on the Advanced technology vessel.?
havent heard about it for a while now...when is the official launch induction date?
 

Salty Dog

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Bad news

http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=16c7d82a-f286-40d8-91a7-8dd639ead286

Scorpene project runs into rough weather

The navy may not be able to induct the first submarine by the 2012 deadline, with the French yet to part with crucial details of technological know-how, including design and drawing documentation. A senior navy official confirmed to HT on Tuesday that the project had been delayed by a year due to “teething problems”.
This could send some bad vibes to the Brazilians. Earlier this year during the French president's visit to Brazil he voiced the France's cooperation with Brazil to develop SSK (Scorpene) and SSN submarines.
 

niteshkjain

New Member
This could send some bad vibes to the Brazilians. Earlier this year during the French president's visit to Brazil he voiced the France's cooperation with Brazil to develop SSK (Scorpene) and SSN submarines.
Are french really going to support on SSN project? Isn't it violates any treaty? if not, why india has not taken any support in building its own ATV?
Can you please provide any link which says French offered help on SSN projects?
 

Salty Dog

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Are french really going to support on SSN project? Isn't it violates any treaty? if not, why india has not taken any support in building its own ATV?
Can you please provide any link which says French offered help on SSN projects?
Try a Google search with the words "France", "Brazil", and "submarine". You will find plenty of links.
 

niteshkjain

New Member
Try a Google search with the words "France", "Brazil", and "submarine". You will find plenty of links.
thanks a lot. but this means India is the dumbest country in the world which tried so hard to build a nuclear submarine all on its own (may be got some covert help). So you can lease a nuclear submarine or you can help to build it but can't sell it??

Correct me if I am wrong.
 

niteshkjain

New Member
http://www.hindustantimes.com/storypage/storypage.aspx?id=81b237eb-d41e-4f06-b1f8-1475ab0788b0

Torpedo all set for user trial

Soumyajit Pattnaik , Hindustan Times
Bhubaneswar, June 03, 2008
First Published: 02:15 IST(3/6/2008)
Last Updated: 02:18 IST(3/6/2008)


The indigenously built heavyweight torpedo, Varunastra, is scheduled to undergo extensive user trials by end 2008 and go into production in 2009. Being developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) to counter threats from the sea, Varunastra can be fired against hostile submarines and ships. The DRDO’s Visakhapatnam-based Naval Science and Technology Laboratory (NSTL) is currently developing the Varunastra.

“We are developing two types of torpedoes. The lightweight anti-submarine torpedo is currently under production. The heavyweight Varunastra requires more user trials before it can be inducted into the Navy. It will undergo extensive trials by the end of this year and will be ready for production in 2009,” a senior NSTL official, who was visiting DRDO facilities in Orissa, told the Hindustan Times. A torpedo, on entering water, performs pre-programmed search patterns, detects and homes in on targets and explodes on impact to destroy/damage them.

A heavyweight torpedo like the Varunastra is fired from a submarine or ship. “This torpedo is wire-guided. In other words, the guidance wire acts as a medium for communication of data between the torpedo and the firing platform (ship or submarine). The wire is also a medium to communicate data to guide the torpedo towards the target during the underwater run,” the NSTL official said. “DRDO has developed guidance wire spools for wire-guided torpedoes like Varunastra. This system has undergone sea trials and performed satisfactorily. DRDO has also developed an onboard instrumentation system for torpedoes.”

The official added that the instrumentation system performs pre-launch communication, monitors health of the torpedo and stores torpedo parameters online.

Despite the strides made in the indigenous production of torpedoes, the Indian Navy still suffers from a handicap: how to train submarine or ship crew in torpedo firing. Use of real torpedoes for training is cost prohibitive, so naval officials train with practice torpedoes. For this purpose, NSTL has designed, developed and produced a ‘drill and practice torpedo’, which is the equivalent of an Italian torpedo, currently available with the Indian Navy. The indigenous drill and practice torpedo is available at one-sixth the cost of an imported torpedo.
 

niteshkjain

New Member
Finally some good news for Indian navy regarding gorshakov

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080603/109132065.html

Russia to test aircraft carrier for India's navy in 2011

The Russian Sevmash shipyard said on Tuesday it planned to test an aircraft carrier currently being modernized for the Indian navy in 2011.

India contracted the $1.5 billion Admiral Gorshkov for its navy in 2004. After long-running delays and disputes, Russia and India agreed in February to raise refit costs for the aircraft carrier, berthed at Sevmash in north Russia for the past 12 years.

The carrier, renamed the Vikramaditya, is to replace India's INS Viraat carrier, which, although currently operational, is now 50 years old.

"The successful solution of all the financial issues will enable the shipbuilders to sail the aircraft carrier out into the Barents Sea for trials. In the winter of 2012, the ship is expected to be finally refitted and trials will continue in the summer of that year. At the end of 2012, the aircraft carrier is expected to be fully prepared for its transfer to the Indian navy in accordance with the schedule approved by the Russian Navy," Sevmash said.

The contract to deliver the Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier to India, which state-run arms exporter Rosoboronexport signed with the Indian navy, covers the modernization of the ship and equipping it with modern weaponry, including MiG-29K Fulcrum aircraft and Ka-27 Helix-A and Ka-31 Helix-B anti-submarine helicopters.

After it has been refitted, the Gorshkov is expected to be seaworthy for 30 years.
 

Sea Toby

New Member
How is the construction coming along of the indigenous aircraft carrier. I read recently India may order another one this year? Any confirmation?
 

niteshkjain

New Member
How is the construction coming along of the indigenous aircraft carrier. I read recently India may order another one this year? Any confirmation?
The indigenous ADS (Air Defense Ship) is equally hush hush project like the ATV so there is no concrete information available as of now :)
 

kay_man

New Member
ooooooooooooooooooo

i heard this one some where..i dont remember.

the russians had developed a supersonic rocket propelled torpedo !!!
it was undergoing tests on board THE KURSK..
there are speculations that the torpedo had volatile propellant and its explosion caused to kursk to sink !!!
 

swerve

Super Moderator
i heard this one some where..i dont remember.

the russians had developed a supersonic rocket propelled torpedo !!!
it was undergoing tests on board THE KURSK..
there are speculations that the torpedo had volatile propellant and its explosion caused to kursk to sink !!!
Please don't dig up old rumours. The official explanation fits the facts, & reflects badly enough on the Russians that there's no reason for them to have made it up.

The volatile propellant (hydrogen peroxide) of a normal, old (not rocket-propelled, not new - in service since 1976 - Type 65-76 "Kit") torpedo leaked. There was an explosion, which set off other torpedos.

Hydrogen peroxide was used because of its high energy content. Western navies had not used it due to concerns over its volatility. The RN lost a ship in the same way in the 1950s, when testing a hydrogen peroxide fuelled torpedo. The USSR accepted the risks as worth the performance.

So there you have it: old technology, effective but deemed too risky in the west. BTW, Russia withdrew HTP torpedos from service after the Kursk accident.

And you could have found all that out for yourself in a few minutes.
 

niteshkjain

New Member
http://www.business-standard.com/common/storypage_c_online.php?leftnm=10&bKeyFlag=IN&autono=39249

Six reconnaissance aircraft to be bought for Navy
Press Trust of India / New Dellhi June 05, 2008, 15:09 IST


With an aim to boost surveillance by the Indian Navy along the country's coastline, the Central government will soon initiate the process to acquire six medium-range multi-role reconnaissance aircraft.


The Defence Ministry has given clearance for Request for Proposals (RFPs) which will be issued any time now, official sources said here today.

The induction will be done in a phased manner after the order is executed in one or two years, sources said. The six MRMR aircraft will replace the Navy's Islanders (BN-21A) from Britten Norman that are being used for coastal surveillance for many decades.

At present, the Navy operates about 12 of them but they are on the verge of being phased out. Once inducted, the MRMR aircraft will be mainly used in reconnaissance role to strengthen the Navy's intelligence and surveillance capablities.

The need for the MRMR aircraft will further arise in future when the Navy's fleet of Dornier-228 aircraft is phased out. Most of Indian Navy's Islanders were phased out some years ago. Some were given to Myanmar for its coastal surveillance.

The Indian Coast Guard also requires six MRMR aircraft. Coast Guard sources say their requirement will be met through a separate RFP.
 

aaaditya

New Member
i believe ,that the atr and the embraer meet indian navy's and coast guards requirement well,both aircrafts have been commercially successfull in india with 50+ atr's and 20 embraer's in service with private indian airlines.there will be no dearth os spares and support for these aircrafts.
 

niteshkjain

New Member
http://indiatoday.digitaltoday.in/i...k=view&id=9360&sectionid=36&issueid=57&latn=2

Italians are coming

Last year, when Paolo Girasole, a senior executive with Italian arms major Finmeccanica, was given the option of a foreign posting, he instantly picked India.

The slow-moving decision-making process would need getting used to but the world's second-largest defence market marked an exciting business opportunity.

Reason enough for Italian arms major Finmeccanica to pack its coffee, olive oil and pasta and head for New Delhi.

From one-off suppliers of torpedoes, radars and naval guns to India, Italy is the arriviste in the Indian defence market, quietly becoming one of India's largest potential military equipment suppliers.

Earlier this year, the Indian Navy signed a ¤200 million (Rs 1,300 crore) contract with Italian shipbuilder Fincantieri for a new fleet tanker.

The tanker to be built in Italy and delivered by 2010 will greatly increase the naval fleet's endurance at sea.

Finmeccanica's helicopter division, Augusta Westland, is the frontrunner in a multi-million contract to supply 12 AW-101 VVIP helicopters worth around Rs 110 crore each for use by the President and prime minister.


The AW-101 has been shortlisted to carry the President, prime minister and SPG
Four of these are for the use by the Special Protection Group. In a replay of the Marine One contest for the US presidential helicopter last year, field evaluations conducted by the Indian Air Force (IAF), the triple-engined Italian helicopter trumped its only competitor, the US Sikorsky S-92.
The contract to be signed later this year for the flying offices equipped with advanced communication aids and self-protection devices could well be the greatest Italian export to India since the iconic Vespa scooter in the 1960s.

The Italian story rides mostly on the 'two Fins'-state-owned Finmeccanica which supplies electronics, radars, artillery and aircraft, and Fincantieri that makes ships.

Co-located in a single building in downtown Delhi's Nehru Place and co-incidentally headed by two engineers who attended the Italian naval academy together, the firms with turnovers of ¤12.5 and ¤2.5 billion (Rs 81,250 crore and Rs 16,250 crore) respectively are frontrunners in practically every significant defence contract.

"India is the number one export priority for us," says Massimo de Benedictis, country representative, Fincantieri.

Italy on the go

With an EU-imposed arms embargo against China, India is the largest potential arms market. The Italians are front-runners in a number of aerospace and naval programmes. Rapid delivery schedules, high technology and competitive costs make them attractive for tie-ups. For good reason. Current European Union (EU) arms embargoes against China make India, with $45 billion (Rs 1.89 lakh crore) earmarked for defence acquisitions over the next five years, an attractive alternative.

Fincantieri's FREMM stealth frigate is a contender for a seven-warship order worth Rs 30,000 crore. The shipbuilder is also vying to sell six advanced offshore patrol vessels to the navy and coast guard.


If the 38,000-tonne Indigenous Aircraft Carrier being built at the Cochin Shipyard Limited looks like a bigger version of Italy's new carrier, the Cavour, it is because it was designed with assistance from Fincantieri which is also integrating the ship's propulsion system. Italy has emerged as an attractive shipbuilding destination due to rapid delivery schedules, high technology and competitive costs.

While accepting a new oceanographic survey vessel from Fincantieri in December 2007, Science and Technology Minister Kapil Sibal joked how it had taken his ministry three years to get the financing for a ship which took the yard just 18 months to build.

The navy will get its new Italian tanker in just two years, while it took Garden Reach Shipyard 12 years to build the navy's last tanker- the INS Aditya.

The induction of the AW-101 will give Italy a toe-hold into the burgeoning defence aerospace market.

Augusta Westland's NH-90 is a frontrunner to supply 16 Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) choppers for the navy, 324 light utility choppers for the air force and army, 13 ATR turbo-prop maritime patrol aircraft to the navy and coast guard and two C-27J Spartan medium transport aircraft for the Border Security Force.
The company owns 40 per cent of Eurofighter which is a contender in the $10 billion (Rs 40,000 crore) contract to supply 126 fighter aircraft to the air force.
The entry of the Italians is not incidental. Ever since the nations decided to enhance bilateral cooperation in defence production in 2002 and inked a memorandum of understanding on defence industrial cooperation the following year, defence ties have been on a steady trot.

The joint working group on defence, headed by the defence secretaries, held its seventh meeting last March.

One reason for the Italian connection is the recent policy of diversifying India's arms suppliers.

Over 70 per cent of the Indian military machine is of Soviet and Russian origin with the navy almost entirely dependent on Russian weaponry for its warships, submarines and aircraft.

A troublesome relationship, particularly over the acquisition of spares has left the armed forces keen on alternate sources.

"Overall it is best to diversify the supplier base and enter into technological collaboration with the best in different fields because we always face the risk of resumption of sanctions," says Brigadier Gurmeet Kanwal, director, Centre for Land Warfare Studies.

India's Defence Procurement Procedure, floated in 2005, calls for open tenders for procuring all major arms systems, transfer of technology and offsets of 30 per cent (suppliers have to procure 30 per cent of the value of their contracts from Indian industry).

Italian firms are vying for



Patrol vessels: At least 12 advanced offshore patrol vessels for the navy and the Coast Guard.


Frigates: Seven stealth FREMM frigates worth Rs 4,000 crore each for the navy’s Project 17A programme.


Fleet tanker: ¤200 m contract signed with Fincantieri for delivery of tanker in two years.


Patrol aircraft: Italy’s ATR is in the reckoning to supply medium range patrol aircraft for the navy and the Coast Guard.


NH-90 helicopter: Sixteen anti-submarine warfare choppers for the navy.


C-27J Spartan: Two for the Border Security Force for rapid deployment of forces around the country.


"While Italy has expertise in the production of high-tech weapon systems, India brings in the great asset of manpower," says a defence official.

This allows Italian majors to acquire stakes in private and public sector Indian defence industry and even setting up shop.

This hasn't happened because the cap of 26 per cent Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) is not attractive enough for the Italian majors.

The Government says it is only a matter of time before FDI is hiked to 49 per cent. And when that happens, the Italians would have truly arrived.
 

divedeep

New Member
Expect to see a greater EU focus on the Indian defense market in the coming years as India gradually shifts away from the Russians towards a EU/US/Israel supply base although the army notably retains a strong preference for Russian equipment.

The Fremms certainly are welcome addtions to India's naval modernisation although India still lags noticebly behind in naval logistics ie. underway naval replenishment, a critical fleet of tankers and logistics ships along the lines of the USN's T-AKE fleet to enable power projection further than the Indian Ocean. Given that, it will be interesting to see how the proposed joint Italo-Russian S-1000 SSK sale pans out for the reported additional IN requirement of six SSKs in 2008-09.
 

Salty Dog

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Expect to see a greater EU focus on the Indian defense market in the coming years as India gradually shifts away from the Russians towards a EU/US/Israel supply base although the army notably retains a strong preference for Russian equipment.
The main driving factor for every defense contractor in the world is that India will spend BILLIONS over the next several years. That in itself is a highly motivating factor to get into the Indian Defense Market.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
http://indiatoday.digitaltoday.in/i...k=view&id=9360&sectionid=36&issueid=57&latn=2

Italians are coming
...
Finmeccanica's helicopter division, Augusta Westland, is the frontrunner in a multi-million contract to supply 12 AW-101 VVIP helicopters worth around Rs 110 crore each for use by the President and prime minister.
...
the triple-engined Italian helicopter trumped its only competitor, the US Sikorsky S-92....
The Italian story rides mostly on the 'two Fins'-state-owned Finmeccanica which supplies electronics, radars, artillery and aircraft, and Fincantieri that makes ships.
...
Augusta Westland's NH-90 is a frontrunner to supply 16 Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) choppers for the navy, 324 light utility choppers for the air force and army, 13 ATR turbo-prop maritime patrol aircraft to the navy and coast guard and two C-27J Spartan medium transport aircraft for the Border Security Force.
...
The company owns 40 per cent of Eurofighter which is a contender in the $10 billion (Rs 40,000 crore) contract to supply 126 fighter aircraft to the air force.
Major errors in that article:

1. Finmeccanica is not a state-owned company. The Italian state owns 34% of the company, the rest being publicly traded.

2. The AW101 is not an Italian helicopter. It is a joint Italo-British helicopter, originally developed by Agusta (Italian) & Westland (British), which have now merged & been taken over by Finmeccanica. Since then, Agusta-Westland has closed down the Italian assembly line for AW101 & concentrated production in England, though some of the sub-assemblies are made in Italy.

3. The NH-90 is not an Agusta-Westland helicopter. It is produced by NH Industries, a joint venture in which Agusta-Westland is a minority (32%) partner, & Eurocopter (62.5%) the majority partner (also 5.5% owned by Fokker Aerospace).

4. Finmeccanica (through Alenia Aeronautica) owns 21% of Eurofighter, not 40%. EADS owns 46%, & BAe 33%.
 
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