Ultimax Question.

[F-15 Eagle]

Does anyone know any latest developments or news with the Ultimax 100?

I heard it might be chosen for the USMC's IAR program.

Any help would be great, thanks.

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

Deleted

 

[gary1910]

Ultimax100 Mk 5 which was exhibited in Singapore Airshow 08 was rumoured to be developed to meet the requirement of the American (perhaps for USMC IAR competition)

Some new features:

1) P-rails
2) new magazine housing( similar to M-16 but I doubt that the old 100 rds drum mag of older U100 can be used here, C-mag perhaps)
3) retractable & foldable butt
4) Semi and auto mode of firing
5) Fire selector switches on both left and right side
6) new gripod

And still retain the good constant recoil feature and changeable barrel but it is now heavier then Mk3.

As for any new development about the IAR competition, I think we have to wait and see.

 

[F-15 Eagle]

Ultimax100 Mk 5 which was exhibited in Singapore Airshow 08 was rumoured to be developed to meet the requirement of the American (perhaps for USMC IAR competition)

Some new features:

1) P-rails
2) new magazine housing( similar to M-16 but I doubt that the old 100 rds drum mag of older U100 can be used here, C-mag perhaps)
3) retractable & foldable butt
4) Semi and auto mode of firing
5) Fire selector switches on both left and right side
6) new gripod

And still retain the good constant recoil feature and changeable barrel but it is now heavier then Mk3.

As for any new development about the IAR competition, I think we have to wait and see.

Well if the MK5 does not have any 100 round mags and only 30 round mags(Why would they do that???) then it does not meet the requirements for the USMC as they said the IAR must come with a 100 round mag. I heard the MK4 is being aimed at the USMC but their NOT TALKING so its impossible to determine if anything is going on with the IAR. The IAR could just end up going nowhere and be canceled like the XM8, XM29, XM25 and XM307/312 was dropped.

 

[gary1910]

Well if the MK5 does not have any 100 round mags and only 30 round mags(Why would they do that???) then it does not meet the requirements for the USMC as they said the IAR must come with a 100 round mag. I heard the MK4 is being aimed at the USMC but their NOT TALKING so its impossible to determine if anything is going on with the IAR. The IAR could just end up going nowhere and be canceled like the XM8, XM29, XM25 and XM307/312 was dropped.

Colt LMG ( M-16A2 with heavy barrel, hydraulic buffer ,open bolt etc) is also using the 100rds C-Mag, so I dun see that a problem.

In fact, the original entry for U100 is the Mk4 with foldable butt, P-rail etc, but it was further modified to Mk 5 to cater for this competition.

 

[F-15 Eagle]

Colt LMG ( M-16A2 with heavy barrel, hydraulic buffer ,open bolt etc) is also using the 100rds C-Mag, so I dun see that a problem.

In fact, the original entry for U100 is the Mk4 with foldable butt, P-rail etc, but it was further modified to Mk 5 to cater for this competition.

Is it true that the c-mag has reliability problems or is that just a roomer?

 

[gary1910]

Is it true that the c-mag has reliability problems or is that just a roomer?

I never try a C-Mag before, but there was a report that said there is frequent jamming,true or not & how serious is it, I don't know.

Anyway, Mk4 with ST Engg's 100rds mag was modified to Mk5 with mag housing similar to the M-16 etc, was the result of the American request/requirement as told by ST Engg's sales rep during SA2008.

One thing, having C-Mag compatibility will be much more standardisation as the C-Mag can be used on all the 5.56 weapons in the US inventory, whereas ST Engg's 100rds mag could not be used except for U100 Mk2~4.

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

Deleted

 

[SMGLee]

IAR is delay but still on going.

the required 100rds drum and QD barrel are eliminated from the requirement.

the 100rds drum used by Ultimax are not going to be the standard Beta C, it is a redeveloped Beta style drum that is more like the original C drum before Beta butcher it.

Only competitor left are FN, LWRC and Ultimax...last I heard the Ultimax is hard to beat.

 

[F-15 Eagle]

IAR is delay but still on going.

the required 100rds drum and QD barrel are eliminated from the requirement.

the 100rds drum used by Ultimax are not going to be the standard Beta C, it is a redeveloped Beta style drum that is more like the original C drum before Beta butcher it.

Only competitor left are FN, LWRC and Ultimax...last I heard the Ultimax is hard to beat.

What is your source? They did not eliminate the 100 round mag requirement because they have to have 100 rounds for the support role. 30 rounds is just not enough. The IAR will use a 100 round mag in addition to the 30 round mags.

 

[SMGLee]

The 100rds drum is still needed, but as part of the initial qualifer to have a 100rds drum was dropped.

 

[F-15 Eagle]

The 100rds drum is still needed, but as part of the initial qualifer to have a 100rds drum was dropped.

Wait I must be stupid because I still don't get it.

So their still going to use a 100 round drum or C-mag on the IAR right? I know the Ultimax has one but does the LWRC or FN have one as well?

 

[SMGLee]

the 100 will be modified to take a Beta like C drum which is more akind to the original C drum design by Jim sullivan.

the 100 rds is still required, but the line item was taken out in the initial RFQ.

Not sure what the heck FN submitted...the LWRC will also have a 100rds C Drum.

 

[F-15 Eagle]

the 100 will be modified to take a Beta like C drum which is more akind to the original C drum design by Jim sullivan.

the 100 rds is still required, but the line item was taken out in the initial RFQ.

Not sure what the heck FN submitted...the LWRC will also have a 100rds C Drum.

OK cool they will still have the 100 round mag because they need that kind of fire power.

I also saw Colt has a IAR that it looks like a modified M4 but with a scope and a 100 round Beta C-mag. It looks kinda cool i'll try to look for some images for you.

This might sound dumb but what is a line item?

 

[SMGLee]

The Colt entry was basically a piston driven model 1020 with a QD barrel.

Line item, like points, bullets in a document... the line with the QD barrel abd monolithic rail wqas remove which helped LWRC getting back into the mix.


I think the best available system for IAR for Picatinny Arsenal is the U100. it is a great weapon even if it is 20 years old.

 

[Chino]

IMO, if they adopt the LWRC, they'll have a damn good assault rifle. The LWRC must be the first rifle to truly achieve the AR holy grail of being able to handle both semi and full auto well. Infact, they should replace all M16 and M4 with the LWRC.

However, if they adopt the U100, they'll have a damn good SAW to replace the Minimi. It has the lightness and compactness (para) for assault, and QCB for defensive work.

 

[SMGLee]

IMO, if they adopt the LWRC, they'll have a damn good assault rifle. The LWRC must be the first rifle to truly achieve the AR holy grail of being able to handle both semi and full auto well. Infact, they should replace all M16 and M4 with the LWRC.

However, if they adopt the U100, they'll have a damn good SAW to replace the Minimi. It has the lightness and compactness (para) for assault, and QCB for defensive work.

What do you base on your opinion of the LWRC? have you shot one? It is a good AR upgrade, but how it is better in semi and full auto? in reality the DI gas M4 are better in felt recoil then a piston driven M4.

how is it that a LWRC should replace all M16 platform?

as far as 100 replacing the SAW, have you read the IAR requirement? it is supposed to supplement the SAW, not replace it....

 

[F-15 Eagle]

What do you base on your opinion of the LWRC? have you shot one? It is a good AR upgrade, but how it is better in semi and full auto? in reality the DI gas M4 are better in felt recoil then a piston driven M4.

how is it that a LWRC should replace all M16 platform?

as far as 100 replacing the SAW, have you read the IAR requirement? it is supposed to supplement the SAW, not replace it....

Actually he is right. The LWRC is not meant to be a squad support weapon no matter how much LWRC wants it to be. It would be good to replace the M4 but not the M16.

The marines want the IAR to replace the SAW in all infantry battalions but it will still serve in the stationary and vehicle positions along with the M240(which is a damn good weapon ).

I don't know what the Army will do so far, I guess they will stick with the SAW unless someone knows something that I don't.:unknown

 

[SMGLee]

Actually both of you are wrong, LWRC has some aspect that could make the M16 platform more feasible in operation, but for general infantry, the current system in the M16/M4 variants are more than suitable. Only when the M16 system operate beyond the capability of its original designer then you atart to run into problems. and those are usually within the Spec ops operating perimeter.

As far as the IAR, it started as a Picatinny proposal, and the idea is to add more sustain firepower with in the fire squard that operate in confined AO where the SAW tend to be more difficult to operate.

The Infantry Automatic RIFLE, not Machinegun is mean to be a supplement to the M249.

 

[F-15 Eagle]

Actually both of you are wrong, LWRC has some aspect that could make the M16 platform more feasible in operation, but for general infantry, the current system in the M16/M4 variants are more than suitable. Only when the M16 system operate beyond the capability of its original designer then you atart to run into problems. and those are usually within the Spec ops operating perimeter.

As far as the IAR, it started as a Picatinny proposal, and the idea is to add more sustain firepower with in the fire squard that operate in confined AO where the SAW tend to be more difficult to operate.

The Infantry Automatic RIFLE, not Machinegun is mean to be a supplement to the M249.

You could be right, but if the USMC does chose an IAR it will most likely be the Ultimax 100 MK4 and it is considered to be a magazine feed light machine gun.