The one thing I don’t understand is why the Daring couldn’t have been equipped with the Phalanx to start with as 2 type 42 have been rusting away in Portsmouth harbour for a while and they have had there Phalanx removed so why not just fit them to Daring rather than have them lying around do nothing.
The Royal Navy Discussions and Updates
- Thread starter overlander
- Start date
you know what I think would be the best combination would be Goalkeeper's radar combined with a RAM launcher as Goalkeeper Radar is more sophisticated than Phalanx[of corese RAM relies on main Radar systems but what im looking at is a better SeaRam]. Very impressive the IEP better top and more efficient than expected excellent.
all ships also i believe have do have close in weponds 30mm bushmaster RWS [not a typhoon but similar]http://hms-somerset-co.blogspot.com/2007/10/tuesday-9th-october-sharp-shooting-but.htmlspeed
Depending on what rumours you believe, the first of the remaining Type 42s is due to be decommissioned this year, whilst Daring comes on line next year, leaving plenty of time to transfer Phalanx across. I would have thought that as the Type 42's decommission, the Phalanxs will be transferred across to the new ships if newer systems are not bought for the Darings.
I believe that the Type 45s are equipped with 30mm automated gun mounts (you can see them in the pictures - just forward of the Phalanx mounts but a bit higher). Given that I would have thought that RAM would be the preferred choice if money were no object - but the RN already has the necessary Phalanx mounts and placed a contract with Raytheon a year or so ago for upgrades to the latest standard.
The upgrade was for 16 "sets" of Phalanx. I'm assuming that means 16 individual units, in which case I'm puzzled about where those will be going. Assuming 12 go to the Type 45s (2 each), 3 to Ark Royal, 3 to Ocean - we're already up to 18 without considering attrition units and those kept on hand for outfitting some of the RFA ships. Or are there other contracts to cover further upgrades?
WillS
...They used THESE 30mm Cannon's, as they have done for the Type 22 / 23's
http://www.msi-dsl.com/
These tied into the command system will be "sufficient".
I believe that the RN has 20 sets (16 available, 2 hard mounted on the deck in Basra (as stated above), + 2 in maintence / reserve). The Phalanx sets get "rotated"(only a few vessels get them left fitted).
The systems is designed to be a "bolt-on-&-set-up-in-12-hours" job, so that vessels being rotated in & out of "Active zones" get fitted with them.
Most new Build RN / RFA ships over the last 15-20 years have been Phalanx "FBNW" (For But Not With), the pipework & controls for cooling the system, the power supplies & the seat onto which it's mounted are all fitted, making it very easy to just bolt the unit on, connect the hoses & the power cable, & off they jolly well go !
Systems Adict
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Can the 30mm MSI cannons now fitted as standard on most UK ships of the line (T45/23/22's etc.) deal with the threat posed by RPG stand-off attacks or other similar low-tech hand held weapons? Are they set-up in a way to allow for the automatic engagement of threats without any human interface (other than switching to the appropriate mode - manual to auto engagement)?
I note from their web-site they offer a missile / gun combination, described below. It would be nice to see a MSI30MM/RAM combination unit fitted as a secondary weapon on frigates / destroyers and as a primary weapon on minesweepers / patrol vessels. One assumes however that once the missile is fired the mount will stop firing its 30mm to prevent it from destroying its own missile during flight!!
GUN/MISSILE ARRAY - SIGMA
There is growing appreciation of the value of a close range gun/missile array for defence in littoral waters. SIGMA from MSI Defence Systems meets the need.
The DS25/30 series mounting can be fitted with close range, surface-to-air missiles; for example the Mistral, and retain the choice of cannon, sights and control modes.
Important features are:
Saving on above deck space & weight with single footprint
Extended engagement range
Cost effective
I note from their web-site they offer a missile / gun combination, described below. It would be nice to see a MSI30MM/RAM combination unit fitted as a secondary weapon on frigates / destroyers and as a primary weapon on minesweepers / patrol vessels. One assumes however that once the missile is fired the mount will stop firing its 30mm to prevent it from destroying its own missile during flight!!
GUN/MISSILE ARRAY - SIGMA
There is growing appreciation of the value of a close range gun/missile array for defence in littoral waters. SIGMA from MSI Defence Systems meets the need.
The DS25/30 series mounting can be fitted with close range, surface-to-air missiles; for example the Mistral, and retain the choice of cannon, sights and control modes.
Important features are:
Saving on above deck space & weight with single footprint
Extended engagement range
Cost effective
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The missile (RAM anyway, but also Mistral) has a far higher engagement envelope, and would hence be fired considerably before the 30mm gun even comes into play...
Seems there is finally some more movement on C1.. albeit very, very slooooow. :unknown
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=3518657&c=EUR&s=SEA
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=3518657&c=EUR&s=SEA
RPG-7 effective range:
300 meters against moving point targets.
500 meters against stationary point targets.
500 meters is also the maximum range of rocket assisted flight
(which enables a flatter trajectory and more accurate aiming.)
At the maximum range of 920 meters, RPGs self explodes.
The antipersonnel grenades reach over 1100 meters.
RPG-26 and RPG-27: effective range of 200-250 meters for anti-tank, anti-personnel and anti-material missions.
It can be fired at 50 – 2000 (maximum range with ballistic trajectory).
RPG-18 has an effective range of 200 meters,
http://www.defense-update.com/products/r/rpg.htm
http://www.defense-update.com/products/r/rpg-29.htm
30 mm KCB cannons
30 mm/75 GCM Series
30 mm/75 LS-30B and DS30
Range with 0.93 lbs. (0.420 kg) HE Shell
Effective range - anti-surface 10,900 yards (10,000 m)
Effective range - anti-air 3,000 yards (2,750 m)
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_30-75_GCM.htm
US 25 mm/87 (1") Mark 38 Machine Gun System
Range
Effective Range 2,700 yards (2,457 m)
Maximum Range 7,450 yards (6,800 m)
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_25mm_mk38.htm
Swiss Oerlikon 20 mm/70 (0.79") Mark 1
Range.
Elevation With 0.271 lbs. (0.123 kg) HE-I Mark 3 Shells
Range @ 10 degrees 3,450 yards (3,154 m)
Range @ 15 degrees 3,950 yards (3,612 m)
Range @ 20 degrees 4,275 yards (3,909 m)
Range @ 25 degrees 4,525 yards (4,138 m)
Range @ 30 degrees 4,650 yards (4,252 m)
Range @ 35 degrees 4,725 yards (4,320 m)
Range @ 40 degrees 4,775 yards (4,366 m)
Range @ 45 degrees 4,800 yards (4,389 m)
AA Ceiling 10,000 feet (3,048 m)
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_2cm-70_mk234.htm
0.50"/90 (12.7 mm) M2 Browning MG
Range with 1.71 oz (48.5 gm) Bullet
Range Effective: 2,600 yards (2,400 m)
Maximum: 7,400 yards (6,770 m)
AA Ceiling Effective: about 5,000 feet (1,524 m)
Maximum: about 15,000 feet (4,570 m)
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_50cal-M2_MG.htm
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#1. In a word YES, it just depends how good the operator is at shooting the person firing it in the 1st place ! I have doubts whether a 30mm cannon could take out an RPG while in flight !
#2. C'mon guys, thought someone else would have stated the obvious here !
: Standard 30mm cannons have 2 modes :
Manual - an operator sits in the seat & fires the gun.
Automatic - The gun is loaded prior to the action, put into "Remote" & operated from a console in the Op's room.
This "Automatic mode" still requires someone to reload the gun when the belt feed storage is emptied. The Advantage of using the console in the ops room, is that most modern multi-function consoles can display processed radar picture, a TV picture & an IR picture (Layout is probably thus - 2/3's of display occupied by radar video, 1/3 shows x2 Video pictures, one on top of the other).
It also means that a person is not sat there, fearing that they may be attacked, saving the ships crew. In addition, dependant on the quality of the data fed into & sent out of the guns track extractor, the accuracy is usually much better !
The console operator will probably have a foot push to act as the trigger, or possibly a joystick mounted to one side of the console, with a trigger button (Just like playing on you home PC / Games Console). This could probably be set up so that they keep the button / foot push pressed, while the software of the command system analyzes the "range to target" distance, looking for an "open fire" marker & a "cease fire" marker. These markers, one would assume, could be set by the operator, prior to any action to the specific distances of the weapon under control.
Systems Adict
UK aircraft carriers to get approval next week - report
I didn't see this posted good news for the UK's Navy. I thought only one would be made at best. I follow the thread a little bit seem like a lot cuts I hope both make it.
UK aircraft carriers to get approval next week - report
LONDON (Thomson Financial) - The British government is set to give approval next week for the long-delayed construction of two new aircraft carriers for the Royal Navy, according to a report.
The Ministry of Defence (MoD) is expected to formally commit to the 4 billion pound programme next week and to tell the two companies that will build the carriers, BAE Systems Plc (other-otc: BAESF.PK - news - people ) and VT Group Plc, that they can expect to receive a contract in mid-June, the Financial Times' weekend edition reported.
The formation by BAE and VT of a shipbuilding joint venture to build the carriers has been delayed for months by the MoD's indecision about the carriers.
There had been speculation the programme could fall victim to defence cuts, although industry sources say other, less high profile defence projects are now more likely to face the axe.
Meanwhile, the FT and The Sunday Times reported the outgoing chief executive of BAE, Mike Turner, could become the chairman of support services group Babcock International Group Plc.
Turner is in talks with Babcock and would become a non-executive director of the group before taking the chairmanship, The Sunday Times said.
[email protected]
paw/wj
COPYRIGHT
Copyright Thomson Financial News Limited 2008. All rights reserved.
The copying, republication or redistribution of Thomson Financial News Content, including by framing or similar means, is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Thomson Financial News.
Link
http://www.forbes.com/markets/feeds/afx/2008/05/11/afx4994460.html
I didn't see this posted good news for the UK's Navy. I thought only one would be made at best. I follow the thread a little bit seem like a lot cuts I hope both make it.
UK aircraft carriers to get approval next week - report
LONDON (Thomson Financial) - The British government is set to give approval next week for the long-delayed construction of two new aircraft carriers for the Royal Navy, according to a report.
The Ministry of Defence (MoD) is expected to formally commit to the 4 billion pound programme next week and to tell the two companies that will build the carriers, BAE Systems Plc (other-otc: BAESF.PK - news - people ) and VT Group Plc, that they can expect to receive a contract in mid-June, the Financial Times' weekend edition reported.
The formation by BAE and VT of a shipbuilding joint venture to build the carriers has been delayed for months by the MoD's indecision about the carriers.
There had been speculation the programme could fall victim to defence cuts, although industry sources say other, less high profile defence projects are now more likely to face the axe.
Meanwhile, the FT and The Sunday Times reported the outgoing chief executive of BAE, Mike Turner, could become the chairman of support services group Babcock International Group Plc.
Turner is in talks with Babcock and would become a non-executive director of the group before taking the chairmanship, The Sunday Times said.
[email protected]
paw/wj
COPYRIGHT
Copyright Thomson Financial News Limited 2008. All rights reserved.
The copying, republication or redistribution of Thomson Financial News Content, including by framing or similar means, is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Thomson Financial News.
Link
http://www.forbes.com/markets/feeds/afx/2008/05/11/afx4994460.html
its good news but not unsurprising with the Long Leads ordered [I expect the 1st steel will be cut in August]. Now with this ordered we can focus on other programs like MARS, the C1,C2,C3 ship replacement, and the F35 and AEW programs.
windscorpion
New Member
FutureLynx is supposed to be in jeapody, i can't see it though because of the strategic, political and economic implications to the UK helicopter industry. But then again with this government... :
:Not a lot of Labour seats in Somerset. The Liberals & Tories fight it out down there. Yeovil's Liberal, & Labour got 10.5% of the vote in 2005.FutureLynx is supposed to be in jeapody, i can't see it though because of the strategic, political and economic implications to the UK helicopter industry. But then again with this government...
windscorpion
New Member
Yes i know but as for "consequences" i was thinking more of the country as a whole. But then again all governments seem concerned only with their own short term survival.
Super Nimrod
New Member
However, this story in todays Telegraph suggests that money has been found for several projects for the long term including CVF
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1965357/MOD-allowed-funds-for-kit-and-aircraft-carriers.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1965357/MOD-allowed-funds-for-kit-and-aircraft-carriers.html
Although I suspect the money is being borrowed, the fact that several projects are 'safe' for now is excellent news.
I read about Futurelynx in the Telegraph. To be fair i doubted whether it was that easy to just switch helicopter types (or as cheap as $6million per Seahawk).
I read about Futurelynx in the Telegraph. To be fair i doubted whether it was that easy to just switch helicopter types (or as cheap as $6million per Seahawk).