PAK-FA Cancelled???

[rjmaz1]

if the new regarding the pakfa cancellation was true ,then there would have been some reaction from the indian side,considering that they signed a memorandum of understanding with the russian at the highest level for the development of the fifth gen aircraft.

This has been mentioned twice now.

The Russian PAK-FA is not the exact same aircraft that Russia is working on with India. They are apparently similar but with many differences.

Russia may have realized it cannot afford to develop two similar 5th generation fighters even if one of them has financial assistance from India and they share similar systems. The joint development with India may produce a fighter thats good enough for their needs.

Its interesting that the Engines that would most likely have been used on both aircraft is getting a pay out. That suggests that either both projects have been cancelled, the story is false or the India/Russia fighter doesn't use the same advanced engines. Its possible that the India/Russia version uses normal AL-31 engines, thats only speculation on my behalf.

Most of the Russian stuff is only rumors so we cant be that certain. The Russian and indian version may be so similar Russia has just decided to cancel its version which then resulted in misinformed rumors that everything has been cancelled.

I'll sit on the fence for now.

 

[Feanor]

The article is a fraud. I can't find a single source that says this. Chances are that no such announcements have been made.

 

[Scorpion82]

It is already said at key, that this article is a fake. I think there is no need to further discuss this. BTW the russian and indian versions of the PAK FA mainly differ in terms of some mission equipment/avionics, but they are basically the same aircraft. The intended propulsion is the AL-41F1 with 155 kN reheat thrust, but the prototypes will be initially powered by the article 117S also used by the new Su-35, as the AL-41F1 isn't ready by that time.

 

[F-15 Eagle]

How do you guys know if the article is fake or not?

 

[windscorpion]

Well the fact none of the major aerospace or defence news sites are reporting on this might be a hint.

 

[F-15 Eagle]

Well the fact none of the major aerospace or defence news sites are reporting on this might be a hint.

True I could not find anything other than on various talk forums about the PAK-FA being cancelled. So right now its unconfirmed and I'll just wait and see if this is true or not, as only time will tell.

 

[otester]

Wise move, even if they developed an aircraft equal or better than the F-22 / F-35II, RuAF (and even the USAAF) would still have the problem of locking on to each other at BVR range (+12km).

I think Russia should focus on radar development, starting a $20 billion project on that makes more sense than a $20 billion aircraft project. Although an aircraft project could still be a good idea as I'mm explain below but with reduced expense.

The radar project requirements would be to produce a radar compatible with the Su-27 family that could detect 0.025m² (RCS) targets at 100km and then extend upon that.

Meanwhile extending on the Su-27 deisgn to produce an aircraft with a reduced RCS, 0.01m² or less. RCS should not be total top priority so if reducing it really inflates costs then it's really not really something to worry about as numerical superiority.

The R-77M1 would also enjoy the benefits of the radar project as its seeker could be upgraded as well.

 

[Scorpion82]

I think Russia should focus on radar development, starting a $20 billion project on that makes more sense than a $20 billion aircraft project.

Ah yes and this radar will also ensure survivability over the battefield against an andvanced IADS... :roll:

The radar project requirements would be to produce a radar compatible with the Su-27 family that could detect 0.025m² (RCS) targets at 100km and then extend upon that.

The N-035 Irbis is already said to be able to detect a 0.01 m² target at 90 km, nonseless this won't help you if the stealth aircraft's RCS is even lower and it will launch a 100+ km missile like the AIM-120D at you...

Meanwhile extending on the Su-27 deisgn to produce an aircraft with a reduced RCS, 0.01m² or less. RCS should not be total top priority so if reducing it really inflates costs then it's really not really something to worry about as numerical superiority.

Totally impossible to achieve such an RCS with the Su-27 you would have to design an almost new if not entirely new aircraft to achieve such a RCS.

 

[Vajt]

It has pretty much been established from other sites that this was a fake story. So now I'm still looking forward to MAKS 2009...maybe we'll finally see something then!

-----JT-----

 

[otester]

Ah yes and this radar will also ensure survivability over the battefield against an andvanced IADS... :roll:



The N-035 Irbis is already said to be able to detect a 0.01 m² target at 90 km, nonseless this won't help you if the stealth aircraft's RCS is even lower and it will launch a 100+ km missile like the AIM-120D at you...



Totally impossible to achieve such an RCS with the Su-27 you would have to design an almost new if not entirely new aircraft to achieve such a RCS.

I stand corrected, thank you for the information on the Irbis, I had not heard of it before.

 

[nevidimka]

I hope this story is fake, coz its a great loss to world aviation if Russia doesnt continue to produce its marvelous jets.

 

[ozirislucio]

Brazil and Russia to develop top-line jet fighters

By MARCO SIBAJA
Associated Press Writer

Latin America News

Brazil and Russia to develop top-line jet fighters

BRASILIA, Brazil (AP) -- Brazil and Russia signed an agreement on Tuesday to
jointly develop top-line jet fighters and satellite launch vehicles.

Brazil's Strategic Affairs Minister Roberto Mangabeira Unger told reporters the agreement will lead to the development of fifth-generation jet fighters that are built using sophisticated engineering, such as composite materials, stealth technology and advanced radar.

The agreement signed by Unger and the deputy secretary of Russia's Security Council, Valentin Sobolev, includes the construction of rockets capable of hurling several kinds of satellites into space.

Brazil builds its own small and medium sized rockets that are launched from the Alcantara base in the northeastern state of Maranhao.

The base is considered an excellent launch site because it is located just 2.3 degrees south of the equator, the line at which the Earth moves the fastest, helping propel rockets into space with less fuel.

The Brazil-Russia agreement also calls for advanced training in the field of cybernetics, which Mangabeira said was "essential for the defense and the technological evolution of our industry."

The agreement involves the transfer of technology, something Brazil has always insisted on.

Earlier this year, France aid it would transfer technology to the Brazil for construction of the Scorpene attack submarine, helicopters and the Rafale fighter plane.

The Scorpene is a conventional attack submarine, but Brazilian officials have said they want the diesel-powered vessel to serve as a model for the development of a Brazilian nuclear submarine that would be the first in Latin America.

© 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. Learn more about our Privacy Policy.

 

[ozirislucio]

Together Brazil in Pak-Fa.

 

[Viktor]

PAK-FA project is running smothly (two of the prototypes are being build as we speak) ... so dont belive such news ...

Indian PAK-FA is something like PAK-FA (MKI) most probable with foreign equipment to some extend nothing more !!!

Now Brasil is in and that wont be the end for sure ...

more to it ... Russia will most likely (Mig.corp) build its version of lightweight 5th generation fighter


-> Also new stealth strategic bomber is in development (PAK-DA) so there is no sence to cancel 5G fighter but continue with stealth bomber development ... I guess money is no object there and Russia will by 2020 get its existing airplanes mdoernized and by 2015 two new 5G fighters

The lightweight fighter of the 5th generation will be created on the base of the technologies of the heavy promising destroyer




MOSCOW, on 16 April. (ARMS- TASS). The lightweight fighter of the 5th generation will be created on the base of the technologies of heavy promising destroyer (tonics. in Fig. to the right), developed at present, reported korr.ARMS- TASS the President of the united aircraft construction corporation (OAK) Aleksey Fedorov, who visited the 10th international salon"engines 2008".

"today in Russia all financial, intellectual, technical and production resources of the aircraft industry are concentrated on the program of the creation of the heavy destroyer of the 5th generation. We cannot pulverize them and must complete this program. Only after this it is possible to examine a question about the creation of light promising destroyer on the base of the obtained technologies ", it noted A.Fedorov.the pack -fa

According to him, to the moment of making a decision about the creation of light promising destroyer for the market will be proposed the destroyer MiG-35 (in the photograph below to the left), in which some technologies of the 5th generation are already today realized, including onboard radar with the impulse phased antenna cascade.

MiG-35 In the opinion of the leader OF OAK, Russia with the creation of the destroyers of the 5th generation, obviously, will go by that way, by which go the United States. Was there first created the heavy destroyer F -22 Of "reptor", and then on the base of its technologies began to be created lightweight fighter F -35 "the Lightning -2", which has the higher export capabilities.

MOSCOW, on 16 April. (Korr.ARMS- TASS). The Air Force of Russia do not plan in the immediate future to adopt for military service the lightweight fighter of the 5th generation.

 

[Holt_Allen]

What exactly do we know regarding the expected capabilities of the PAK-FA? I had always assumed it was going to be a Russian 5th generation air superiority fighter similar to the F-22A Raptor in performance. Now that Russia is signing deals with India and others, I am beginning to think it will have more in common with the multirole F-35 Lightning II. Can anyone clarify the expected role and performance of this plane for me?

 

[Scorpion82]

-> Also new stealth strategic bomber is in development (PAK-DA) so there is no sence to cancel 5G fighter but continue with stealth bomber development ... I guess money is no object there and Russia will by 2020 get its existing airplanes mdoernized and by 2015 two new 5G fighters

Money does matter, even in the US which has much more of it. Don't think Russias financial resources are infinititiv now were their economics has grown. In addition I can't see 2 (two) new 5th generation fighters entering service by 2015. Most current sources speak about series production starting in 2015 for the PAK FA, that means you are unlikely to see any PAK FA being delivered to operational units before late next decade. And the so called light fighter doesn't exist in any form either, if it will be develope it will follow a couple of years later!

 

[Viktor]

What exactly do we know regarding the expected capabilities of the PAK-FA? I had always assumed it was going to be a Russian 5th generation air superiority fighter similar to the F-22A Raptor in performance. Now that Russia is signing deals with India and others, I am beginning to think it will have more in common with the multirole F-35 Lightning II. Can anyone clarify the expected role and performance of this plane for me?

What does it matter PAK-FA will be sold to Brasil and India so it has to be more like F-35 ... ??? Dont understand you... PAK-FA is designed to be air-superiority unlike F-35 and like F-22 ...

 

[Viktor]

Money does matter, even in the US which has much more of it. Don't think Russias financial resources are infinititiv now were their economics has grown. In addition I can't see 2 (two) new 5th generation fighters entering service by 2015. Most current sources speak about series production starting in 2015 for the PAK FA, that means you are unlikely to see any PAK FA being delivered to operational units before late next decade. And the so called light fighter doesn't exist in any form either, if it will be develope it will follow a couple of years later!

Well there is difference within Russian and US plan. US basicly produced two compleatly different 5th generation fighters and its cost of development and time has gone wild... Russia I belive already tested most of the parts for PAK-FA prototype and 2 of them are being buld. Making another Russian 5th generation fighter will again take mutch less money and time cozz it will esencialy be same as PAK-FA but scaled down one engine fighter.

 

[Scorpion82]

Well there is difference within Russian and US plan. US basicly produced two compleatly different 5th generation fighters and its cost of development and time has gone wild... Russia I belive already tested most of the parts for PAK-FA prototype and 2 of them are being buld. Making another Russian 5th generation fighter will again take mutch less money and time cozz it will esencialy be same as PAK-FA but scaled down one engine fighter.

That is nonsense. The F-22 and F-35 are developed by the very same manufacturer. The F-35 uses a lot of technologies/experiences from the F-22, yet it is still a different aircraft requiring a lot of work to be done again. Claiming that most technologies of the PAK FA are already completed is wishful thinking and unrealistic, sure some work has been done, but 2 prototypes for such a complex aircraft mean this aircraft is a) not going to be competitive to the F-22 or b) requiring a lot of time until development and testing is done. The Russians are hardely able to fund both types right now and even if the light fighter will be based on the PAK FA there will be a couple of differences and a lot of work will stil be required. I also can't see all the stuff going from the PAK FA to the LFI if the later one is developed by a different manufacturer. BTW money is one thing, work which have to be done another. And you can hardly compare these costs without taking into account that the Russians defence budget is not even 1/10 of that of the US.

 

[ROCK45]

Pak-fa

Viktor
What does it matter PAK-FA will be sold to Brasil and India so it has to be more like F-35 ... ??? Dont understand you... PAK-FA is designed to be air-superiority unlike F-35 and like F-22 ..

.
How do you know this and what do you base this on?

Well there is difference within Russian and US plan. US basicly produced two compleatly different 5th generation fighters and its cost of development and time has gone wild..

Russia hasn't shown it can get past Flanker design how do you know Russia's R&D cost won’t go wild designing and building a 5th generation aircraft? There's a huge gap in producing a prototype or "parts" used for a planned prototype, then really making a test bed aircraft where production can be based off of. Viktor I'm not saying Russia can't produce a 5th generation fighter but I don't think one can't get around the money and time needed to do it. R&D is costly and time consuming and remember both the F-22 and F-35 are 20+ years more advance then the F-117. The way you say it you make it sound like Russia has a way to bypass 20+ years of costly R&D money and time while you're still flying Flankers and not even up to an F-117 level of stealth yet. I think if Russian aircraft makers and most likely the government kept funding constant that Russia can and might have already produced a 5th generation aircraft already.