Taiwan and the PRC

[Stryker001]

While that is true over the whole of the force, the core elements are well trained and as equipped as any other force in the region, except Russia and NATO.

Japan believes the latest poisoning was intentional and the PRC hide behind the vast regional Government system to not except responsibility. We all know that a communist country is well controlled. This has more to do with resent Japanese statements in relation to the Self-Defense Force, than Taiwan.

Many in the US believe the poisonings linked to a greater PRC strategy, when considering that the US do not directly interfere with Tibet, it appears a one way street.

The mass poisoning of people came to the surface in 2005, now it's 2008 you have problems in Tibet and worldwide. In fact the PRC has blown the Olympics yes it will go ahead people will turn up 43 is coming; reason why the US stands besides the Chinese people and freedom he may even do a little dance for you. However, what you desired most has been taken from you.

 

[xien]

India has the capability to do more than just defend itself, so yes one COULD consider it a threat. Apart from that, I'm pretty sure that India has no interest in initiating a conflict with the PRC. If you look at the history in that region, India never attacked China. More like China attacked India. India is, in my view, the victim of Pakistani/Chinese aggression. If anyone has something to fear it would be India. Their past conflict with the PRC gave them a bloody nose, and served as a wake up call to modernize their military. Now, thanks to their booming economy, they will be alright.

Who know the truth?In China we always be told that India attack our border.Maybe In India they were told that China attack their border.But as a chinese we always think the great threat is from the east not the west.so I think either China or India has no interest in initiating a conflict with each other.

 

[csubaicai]

India has the capability to do more than just defend itself, so yes one COULD consider it a threat. Apart from that, I'm pretty sure that India has no interest in initiating a conflict with the PRC. If you look at the history in that region, India never attacked China. More like China attacked India. India is, in my view, the victim of Pakistani/Chinese aggression. If anyone has something to fear it would be India. Their past conflict with the PRC gave them a bloody nose, and served as a wake up call to modernize their military. Now, thanks to their booming economy, they will be alright.

I do not understand why the topic of this thread turned to China-India's relation?Anyway,I have been Bangladesh for almost half a year,I got well know one fact,that is seldom people living in South Asia around India particularly in Bangladesh like India ,and the people living in Bangadesh around me are so kind to me-a young guy from China.

 

[csubaicai]

The ROC title is remenance of nationalist china being a sore looser. The fact is that economically, politically, militarilly, internationally & legaly (domestically) Taiwan is a seperate entity to China and has been for 50 years.

At least until 1996,even the governor of Taiwan disagreed to your conclusion above,and I am able to easily find many evidence to prove that Taiwan have been closly connected to PROC,if you are glad to read the original files from both sides of the strait.Especailly in economical field,Taiwan has highly depended on PROC in nowadays,and this conclusion has been accepted by more and more people in Taiwan even including Mr.Xie Chang Ting,who properly will be the so-called 'president' in next five years.

Ethnicity alone is no justification, Australia and the UK are ethnically very similar, same as Canada. Does that give the UK a right to invade Australia, or Australia to Canada? Guys the civil war is over, the communist party won and is the legitimate government of China, that has been recognised by most of the world since the 70's. However this lingering contention by Taipei and Bejing is a remenant of the past. Realistically Taiwan IS a seperate entity in all the ways that mater. On the ground a "formal" declaration of indipendance would change nothing, in real terms they have been an indipendant nation for half a century. The fact is that while the majority of the Taiwanese people want indipendance or at least the status quo fighting a currently unwinable war over it is pointless IMHO.

No one has ever said 'Ethnic is the key point why Taiwan is one part of China',the key point is the fact that Taiwan was,is,and will be one part of China,PROC have her right to response any provocative action to her integrality.

 

[csubaicai]

Although most of the population there is from mainland China, the island has been politically and culturally seperated from her since for almost 50 years! That's comparable with the division of Korea!
Meanwhile, as I expected,

I don't know how you could make such a 'brilliant' conclusion,it exsits obvious difference between the division of Korea and the divsion of Taiwan strait.

 

[f-22fan12]

I do not understand why the topic of this thread turned to China-India's relation?Anyway,I have been Bangladesh for almost half a year,I got well know one fact,that is seldom people living in South Asia around India particularly in Bangladesh like India ,and the people living in Bangadesh around me are so kind to me-a young guy from China.

I mentioned India because someone in this discussion mentioned India as a possible threat to China.

 

[Generalissimo]

I don't mean to really introduce politics into this but the result of the Taiwanese election tomorrow will have great bearing on this issue; I predict a victory for the KMT and and greater dialouge between Taiwan and China. However I do not believe that Taiwan will approve of reunificaiton until the political situation in China more closely matches that of Taiwan.

On the military side of things, how do you all think that the election will affect the possible F-16 of Rafale deal the ROCAF has going if the KMT wins?

 

[Schumacher]

I don't mean to really introduce politics into this but the result of the Taiwanese election tomorrow will have great bearing on this issue; I predict a victory for the KMT and and greater dialouge between Taiwan and China. However I do not believe that Taiwan will approve of reunificaiton until the political situation in China more closely matches that of Taiwan. .......

It seems the latest is KMT already won although not official yet.
KMT will most likely focus on economic union/cooperation in their first term. The riskier political convergence will have to wait for the second term.

 

[Firehorse]

Korea is more homogenious than Taiwan, and North Koreans who manage to come to ROK have many problems adjusting to their new life there. I made a mistake- it's been almost 60 years since Taiwan became self-ruled. I've been on both sides of the strait and can assure you that the people are very different!

 

[csubaicai]

Korea is more homogenious than Taiwan, and North Koreans who manage to come to ROK have many problems adjusting to their new life there. I made a mistake- it's been almost 60 years since Taiwan became self-ruled. I've been on both sides of the strait and can assure you that the people are very different!

As a resident in Mainland,I don't agree with you.Can you tell us how many people escape North Korean to South?And I am sure there are almost millions of people of the island now decided to live in their motherland,they come to mainland not because of political pressure and it has been proved by the fact that they like their lives here.
'Korea is more homogenious than Taiwan' is absolutely ridiculous.You have metioned that North Koreans who manage to come to ROK have many problems adjusting to their new life there,Do you know the reasons?One of the problems is that there are many difference in the languages of two Korean,every North Koreans come to ROK have to accept the training by ROK goverment.But we could easily talked to any people from Taiwan without any language training.

 

[Firehorse]

Well, I'm not saying it's the language or training problem for NKs in ROK- it's different culture & economy they have to learn about. Perhaps those Taiwanese who do choose to live in the PRC are motivated by things other than patriotism. There are millions of other "overseas Chinese" that don't rash to leave their current location. The same can be said of Greeks, Russians, Ukrainians, Jews, Armenians, Georgians, Chechens, and some others who don't want to live in their respective historic motherlands.

 

[crobato]

I'm not sure how really different. More and more the mainlanders are acting like Hong Kong and Taiwan people every day.

 

[Schumacher]

.......
On the military side of things, how do you all think that the election will affect the possible F-16 of Rafale deal the ROCAF has going if the KMT wins?

This is interesting, with a China friendlier president in place now, I can see US becoming more concerned with putting more restrictions & controls on tech/knowledge transfer to Taiwan.
On the other hand, if the past is any guide, KMT will want more transfers, newer techs & better prices, i.e. much better deals in general.

 

[Zechariah]

Taiwan is part of China and this principle is supported not only in point of history but also in point of law.And please give up your idea,frankly,it is naive.

I think both of these statements are wrong.
Historically China never much cared about Taiwan.
Even so, in the 1900's Taiwan was ceded to Japan after they defeated China. Legally the island doesn't belong to them either.

 

[Zechariah]

Perhaps those Taiwanese who do choose to live in the PRC are motivated by things other than patriotism.

Yeah, usually an oportunity for profit.

 

[xien]

I think both of these statements are wrong.
Historically China never much cared about Taiwan.
Even so, in the 1900's Taiwan was ceded to Japan after they defeated China. Legally the island doesn't belong to them either.

You are wrong,China defeated Netherland in the 1600's for Taiwan early.

 

[Zechariah]

You are wrong,China defeated Netherland in the 1600's for Taiwan early.

Wait, I'm wrong that China ceded Taiwan to Japan in the treaty of Shimonoseki? That is a fact and cannot be disputed.

I take it your saying I'm wrong that China never really had much interest in Taiwan. I'll admit this is a statement that is less clear cut, but generally agreed upon.

Edit: I had originally wrote kimoseki instead of shimonoseki

 

[xien]

Yes,you know its ceded.that is mean you have no choice.If you know more about chinese history,you can find the north of China is controled by Russia,the east of China is controled by German,the south of China is controled by France,the west of China is controled by other counties.in 1900's.Its not the China have no interest in Taiwan,is the only part can be ceded.

 

[csubaicai]

I think both of these statements are wrong.
Historically China never much cared about Taiwan.
Even so, in the 1900's Taiwan was ceded to Japan after they defeated China. Legally the island doesn't belong to them either.

I am sure I am right.Because of your ridiculous statment,I am sure you know little about China's history,otherwise you are trying to distribute a wrong information here.
If you care about the island's history,I think it is easy for you to find the historical evidence which is back up to my statements.Briefly,the island has been controled by Ming dynasty at least over 450 years ago.And almost 400 years ago when the Ming dynasty was replaced by the Qing Dynasty,the central governor once lost control of the island,but the island quickly was reoccupied by the central governor.And the most importance is that the current goverment of the island is the goverment which was droven to the island in 1949 from mainland and thus the goverment self is a part of the China's history and it was strongly against the independence until 1996.
I really don't understand where your confindence in your wrong statements comes from?

 

[kato]

Wait, I'm wrong that China ceded Taiwan to Japan in the treaty of Shimonoseki? That is a fact and cannot be disputed.

Article 4
It is recognised that all treaties, conventions, and agreements concluded before 9 December 1941 between Japan and China have become null and void as a consequence of the war.
(1952 Treaty of Taipei)

Article 2
(b) Japan renounces all right, title and claim to Formosa and the Pescadores.
(1951 Treaty of San Francisco)