Taiwan and the PRC

[f-22fan12]

so if it did not declare independence,everything is ok.we just want hold zhe the balance of asia.china never take zhe war first

I personaly think that China's ambitions are more than just to keep the "balance of power" in Asia. I also highly doubt their commitment to the "peaceful rise" policy of your leader. But then again, all countries will try to tip the balance of power in the region in which they are towards them. You can't blame them for trying to make their country more powerful, that's what most governments do. If the U.S. wasn't on Taiwan's side, China would be alot more aggresive.

I also think what the Chinese government wants and beleives is different than what the Chinese people want and beleive. The Chinese are a good people. Just their government can sometimes cause some problems. Like many other countries around the world.

 

[xien]

No, it doesn't. It recognises Beijing as the Chinese government. Find me a UN resolution that says Beijing controls Tibet.



Because Japan's has been fixed at 1% of GDP for ages - it is barely rising at all.

By the way,I want to find out the use of army.Does it to protect our territoriality and people?Chinas territoriality and people are more double of Japan,just like American.then you tell us what size army we should equip.
Second China have 14 neighbours in the land(not include Japan and the others in the sea).ever neighbours you put 10 tanks for defence all together is 140 tanks.

 

[xien]

I personaly think that China's ambitions are more than just to keep the "balance of power" in Asia. I also highly doubt their commitment to the "peaceful rise" policy of your leader. But then again, all countries will try to tip the balance of power in the region in which they are towards them. You can't blame them for trying to make their country more powerful, that's what most governments do. If the U.S. wasn't on Taiwan's side, China would be alot more aggresive.

I also think what the Chinese government wants and beleives is different than what the Chinese people want and beleive. The Chinese are a good people. Just their government can sometimes cause some problems. Like many other countries around the world.

Yes,we still think govement has many problem,but we still know our thing should to be clean by ourself.

 

[xien]

Why does china need tibet anyhow? Let those people free! I think discussing politics are against the rules though guys

Military and Humanitarian Social Bookmarking
cruelbreed.com
cruelbreed.com/forums

Its easy to you,itnot bout your business.Just like American soldiers death at Iraq isnot about my business.

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

Its easy to you,itnot bout your business.Just like American soldiers death at Iraq isnot about my business.

Tibet and Iraq are everyones buisness. Kosovo should clearly illustrate that fact, i.e. the international community does care (in some instances) about military action that does not have a direct effect on them. Allthough Darfur is turning into the single point of shame of the west.

 

[xien]

Tibet and Iraq are everyones buisness. Kosovo should clearly illustrate that fact, i.e. the international community does care (in some instances) about military action that does not have a direct effect on them. Allthough Darfur is turning into the single point of shame of the west.

Yes,we shoule care about evrything,but should use a right way.Iraq and Kosovo is the fact,look what we did,American soldier are still here.

 

[kato]

Kosovo should clearly illustrate that fact, i.e. the international community does care (in some instances) about military action that does not have a direct effect on them.

And it had nothing to do at all that Europe was fearing yet another million refugees from the former Yugoslavian federation.

*cough* *cough*

 

[Musashi_kenshin]

By the way,I want to find out the use of army.Does it to protect our territoriality and people?Chinas territoriality and people are more double of Japan,just like American.then you tell us what size army we should equip.

First of all you're very inexperienced in military affairs if you think that the job of the army is simply to protect land. You don't line your men up on the borders like a ring - you keep them in groups to focus on certain provinces.

Second China is not spending its new money on having x million men in the army. In fact it has always had millions of men in the armed forces even before the large cash injections. So that would suggest China doesn't need to spend so much money just to protect itself.

Second China have 14 neighbours in the land(not include Japan and the others in the sea).ever neighbours you put 10 tanks for defence all together is 140 tanks.

China's neighbours, apart from Russia, are not in a position to pose any military threat to it. They might be able to defend themelves but that's it.

 

[kato]

China's neighbours, apart from Russia, are not in a position to pose any military threat to it. They might be able to defend themelves but that's it.

India?

 

[xien]

First of all you're very inexperienced in military affairs if you think that the job of the army is simply to protect land. You don't line your men up on the borders like a ring - you keep them in groups to focus on certain provinces.
*******************************************************
you must dont know more about China.We have 1.4billion people,so I always
see many foreigh travelers take the photo in the subway.because they have never seen so many persons before.

Second China is not spending its new money on having x million men in the army. In fact it has always had millions of men in the armed forces even before the large cash injections. So that would suggest China doesn't need to spend so much money just to protect itself.
********************************************************
FOR example the incoming of a first soldier is 100$/month before 2006,it increas to 200$ last year.and the rice、meat what the soldier eat and use is also increas 20% last year.


China's neighbours, apart from Russia, are not in a position to pose any military threat to it. They might be able to defend themelves but that's it.
********************************************************
So china keep 1.5million Army soldier now.and reduce the number every year.

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

And it had nothing to do at all that Europe was fearing yet another million refugees from the former Yugoslavian federation.

*cough* *cough*

Well i would like to think there was some moral justifcation for that action. But maybe your right, considering the wests neglect of Africa.

 

[kato]

First of all you're very inexperienced in military affairs if you think that the job of the army is simply to protect land. You don't line your men up on the borders like a ring - you keep them in groups to focus on certain provinces.

Add to that that the terrain in these areas is pretty diverse. The deserts in the Northwest and North lend themselves to maneuver warfare and aerial surveillance far better than mountaineous Tibet or the jungles on the Vietnamese border. Hence you need a diversified army to reflect that too.

On another note, China's military is rather small in fact. As a share of its population - around 0.1 to 0.15%. India is in the same "small" range. For comparison, average armies in the "West" range around 0.3 to 0.35% of population (e.g. in the US, UK, Germany...).

 

[Musashi_kenshin]

India?

India doesn't share much of a land border with China - it would have to go through the mountains or another country.

you must dont know more about China.We have 1.4billion people

So? It doesn't matter whether a city has 1 million or 10 million people in it - it can still be protected by the same number of soldiers.

FOR example the incoming of a first soldier is 100$/month before 2006,it increas to 200$ last year.and the rice、meat what the soldier eat and use is also increas 20% last year.

That does not account for anywhere near most of the spending increases. It's going on more weapons, planes, frigates, submarines, etc.

So china keep 1.5million Army soldier now.and reduce the number every year.

If that is the case as you say then why is the budget increasing so much? That just proves that China is spending the extra money on more weapons, not better pay.

 

[Grand Danois]

Wrt increases in the PRC def budget.

One could hypothesise that some of the increase in expenditure is caused by items that has previously not been accounted for, are now part of the official budget, ie it's the result of increased transparency, as called for by the outside world.

 

[Stryker001]

Its easy to you,itnot bout your business.Just like American soldiers death at Iraq isnot about my business.

Tibet and Iraq are everyones buisness. Kosovo should clearly illustrate that fact, i.e. the international community does care (in some instances) about military action that does not have a direct effect on them. Allthough Darfur is turning into the single point of shame of the west.

Yes,we shoule care about evrything,but should use a right way.Iraq and Kosovo is the fact,look what we did,American soldier are still here.

Remember the world is watching including via satellites, as the Chinese book the art of war the PRC have telegraphed their military response to uprisings in Tibet.

Its the world business becuase of the Olympics, the standard PRC line on domestic issues does not compute. Taiwan would be well aware of the Chinese rule of law over territories. It is Chinese vanity that has lead you down this path.

You speak of Iraq, well one observation from Iraq is the construction and deconstruction of an insurgency, so should see General Petras other thesis on the doctrine of insurgency and counter insurgency warfare.

Further more with Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechnya and most other people’s wars the enemy in the PRC Tibetans actually shot back. That is the difference. NATO will have bases in Afghanistan for sometime to come, so it incorrect to say Russia is the only counter to China in the region.

Baroghil Pass not that it is a considered threat to the PRC, as there is no intent.

 

[xien]

India doesn't share much of a land border with China - it would have to go through the mountains or another country..

More than 1,700 km。

So? It doesn't matter whether a city has 1 million or 10 million people in it - it can still be protected by the same number of soldiers..

Its not right,the fighter always attack the city,city's size is decided by the number fo citizen.How can you use the same number of soldiers to protecet.

That does not account for anywhere near most of the spending increases. It's going on more weapons, planes, frigates, submarines, etc

OK,China's region is third of the world,but only 300 SU-27/30.Maybe is better than Taiwan.but not better than Japan.

If that is the case as you say then why is the budget increasing so much? That just proves that China is spending the extra money on more weapons, not better pay.

Tell you one truth,maybe you never think it is true.The soldier feed pigs themselves,just because the low budget 5 years ago.

 

[f-22fan12]

India?

India has the capability to do more than just defend itself, so yes one COULD consider it a threat. Apart from that, I'm pretty sure that India has no interest in initiating a conflict with the PRC. If you look at the history in that region, India never attacked China. More like China attacked India. India is, in my view, the victim of Pakistani/Chinese aggression. If anyone has something to fear it would be India. Their past conflict with the PRC gave them a bloody nose, and served as a wake up call to modernize their military. Now, thanks to their booming economy, they will be alright.

 

[f-22fan12]

Xien, you mentioned that China's vast fleet of approx. 300 Su-27/Su-30 may be better than Taiwan's fighter aircraft and air force, that's true. This vast fleet is also better than Japan's air force. The JASDF operates no more than 210 F-15s total. They also have about 90 F-2 fighters. The 210 F-15s and 90 F-2s are basically the only Japanese planes comparable to China's Su-27s and Su-30s. The JASDF also has some old F-4s but on a related note the PLAAF has hundreds of older aircraft comparable with the F-4.
You also fail to mention China's J-10 fleet of aircraft. These are arguebly comparable to the F-2s of the JASDF.

Again, I'm not against the PRC or the Chinese people, as I have said before they are a good people. I just want to present the facts in and accurate manner.

 

[Firehorse]

Taiwan elevates aboriginals to downplay Chinese roots
Taiwan is home to some 470,000 aboriginals who have linguistic and genetic ties to Austronesian ethnic groups such as peoples of the Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia and Madagascar. ..Analysts argue that government's efforts to raise the status of the indigenous population has less connection to newfound cultural sensitivity than to a politicized campaign aimed at cementing Taiwan's claims to be an independent country rather than part of China as claimed by Beijing.
"The promotion of aboriginal culture is very much a part of the de-sinification effort," said Shelley Rigger, an East Asian politics expert at Davidson College in the United States. "Aboriginal peoples are the foundation for the argument that Taiwan is a 'creole' nation, not a predominantly Chinese society." ..About 98 percent of Taiwan's 23 million people trace their ancestry back to China, which has claimed Taiwan since it broke away during the Chinese civil war in 1949 and pledged to take it back by force if necessary. ..Officials are also offering aboriginal envoys to South Pacific nations that share an ethnic lineage, and they seek to open a Taiwan-Pacific aboriginal dialogue mechanism.
"We aren't a stray race," said Atung Yupas, spokesman for the Taiwan government's Council of Indigenous Peoples. "We are a mainstream group of people."
China, which actively seeks to discredit Taiwan's efforts to define itself as non-Chinese, is not sitting idly by, academics and officials say.
Since the mid-1980s, Beijing has quietly sent private citizens to Taiwan and invited aboriginal visitors over to suggest they declare themselves an ethnic minority rooted in China, they say.
But aboriginals usually side with Taiwan in its conflict with China as they see it as their best hope to carve out an identity.
"To get rid of sinification is consistent with the cause of aboriginals," said Maraos, an aboriginal who works as a marketing director in Taipei. "We are the real natives of Taiwan. It's a very clear concept."

Although most of the population there is from mainland China, the island has been politically and culturally seperated from her since for almost 50 years! That's comparable with the division of Korea!
IMO, the Tibet issue will have to be resolved one way or the other before cross-strait relations go either way.

Meanwhile, as I expected,

JAPAN would step away from its official pacifist position and put its military on alert if there was a serious incident in the Taiwan Strait, a senior official said today.

 

[tphuang]

alright, just a little closure on the Chinese defense budget, since the DoD propaganda has pretty much gotten to everyone. They are getting lazy to the point that they just apply the 2 to 3 times multiplier factor and not even bother to really assess the situation anymore
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,542506,00.html

SPIEGEL: Many experts believe that the official budget figures are vastly understated. Do they include the costs of military research and of the People's Armed Police and the space program?

Chen: They do include the costs of research, but not for the People's Armed Police. Only the military portion of our space program is paid for under the defense budget.

Of course, the only other area quoted by DoD was military purchase from other countries. And in the recent years, that has been non-existent. So, what we can say is that the only thing the Chinese budget doesn't include is PAP and possibly part of the space program that would be considered military by Western countries, but not military by PLA.

If you don't think China is spending more money on its troops, then that's a huge mistake. In fact, I find China threat people to focus way too much on the new hardware, but not enough time on paying their troops better and training them better. More resource allocated to recruitment means better training and more educated officers. This could be even more important than having the new hardware. And the other thing to consider is that the recent inflation in China is 8.7% and the salary increase is even greater than that. When you consider these numbers, having a 17.6% increase in budget is not as large as some people make it out to be.