New Croatian battle tank

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ghost70

New Member
Some of you gay hear anything about a cooperation between USA and Croatian Army to build a new battle tank in Croatia?
In case of positive answer do you have some picture?

Thanks in advance........... :)
 
S

swerve

Super Moderator
ghost70 said:
Some of you gay hear anything about a cooperation between USA and Croatian Army to build a new battle tank in Croatia?
In case of positive answer do you have some picture?

Thanks in advance........... :)
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Us gay? No, us straight. Speaking only for myself, of course. ;)
 
S

s3kiz

New Member
Twink-Tank X2020? :dbanana

...sry couldnt resist the ongoing humour a simple spelling mistake can create. :)

ghost70, what have you heard? fill us in pls.
(with info, dont think of anything else)


Cheers. :)
 
R

Ragusian

New Member
Hm, the only tank being built in Croatia is M-84D/DEGMAN, which doesn't have anything made-in-USA built in as far as I know. Oh, and Patria AMV, but that isn't a tank and it hasn't entered production yet.

And I'm not gay, too... :D
 
E

eckherl

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
The only cooperation that I can visualize is maybe a communications upgrade so that they can be more compatable with NATO. Other than that I do not see how they would be able to afford such a project.
 
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E

eckherl

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Ragusian said:
That, and the replacement of 125 smoothbore for a german Rheinmetall L55 120 mm gun.
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If you are speaking in terms of the TR-85M1 then it doesnt carry a 125 smoothbore, it carries a 100mm rifled gun. You could not place a L-55 into a TR-85M1 due to the size of the turret and hull.
 
F

FSMonster

New Member
ghost70 said:
Some of you gay hear anything about a cooperation between USA and Croatian Army to build a new battle tank in Croatia?
In case of positive answer do you have some picture?

Thanks in advance........... :)
Click to expand...
Hey there pederchino,

There will be no tank building in Croatia for many years. Degman was canceled a few years ago.
 
R

Ragusian

New Member
Hey there pederchino,

There will be no tank building in Croatia for many years. Degman was canceled a few years ago.
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Degman was cancalled, but a tank called M-84D(based on degman) will probably enter small scale production this year. And there's also a good probability of M-84D being sold to Kuwait.

If you are speaking in terms of the TR-85M1 then it doesnt carry a 125 smoothbore, it carries a 100mm rifled gun. You could not place a L-55 into a TR-85M1 due to the size of the turret and hull.
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A new turret would be fitted to the basic M-84D/DEGMAN body.
 
E

eckherl

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Ragusian said:
Degman was cancalled, but a tank called M-84D(based on degman) will probably enter small scale production this year. And there's also a good probability of M-84D being sold to Kuwait.



A new turret would be fitted to the basic M-84D/DEGMAN body.
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That Kuwait deal if and when it surfaces may only include the upgrade package versus the entire platform. Could you elaborate a little more inregards to the L55 being fitted, is this something that is being tested and if so why the L55 versus L44.
 
R

Ragusian

New Member
eckherl said:
That Kuwait deal if and when it surfaces may only include the upgrade package versus the entire platform. Could you elaborate a little more inregards to the L55 being fitted, is this something that is being tested and if so why the L55 versus L44.
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Yes, the Kuwait deal would include the upgrade package, but it would also include about 65 new built tanks.
As about the turret and the gun, you're asking the wrong man here:) . The Degman/M-84D is a mysterious beast;) . 2 versions exist(of the Degman, both are prototypes), and both have(reportedly) different guns(one has a 120mm, the other 125 mm) and slightly different turrets and equipment. The M-84D is a slightly cheaper version of the Degman, which will be adopted by the Croatian army(and possibly Kuwait). It will enter production/upgrades this year. You can see a lot of pictures of M-84D/M-95 Degman in assembly and in testing, just Google.
 
E

eckherl

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Ragusian said:
Yes, the Kuwait deal would include the upgrade package, but it would also include about 65 new built tanks.
As about the turret and the gun, you're asking the wrong man here:) . The Degman/M-84D is a mysterious beast;) . 2 versions exist(of the Degman, both are prototypes), and both have(reportedly) different guns(one has a 120mm, the other 125 mm) and slightly different turrets and equipment. The M-84D is a slightly cheaper version of the Degman, which will be adopted by the Croatian army(and possibly Kuwait). It will enter production/upgrades this year. You can see a lot of pictures of M-84D/M-95 Degman in assembly and in testing, just Google.
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Yes they have stated interest in additional purchases, hopefully it will pan out, Kuwait is very content with their initial M-84 order and would like to get them upgraded to pose a counter/challenge that would have the potential to materialize in that region. For the length of the L-55 I just cannot see them going with it, L-44 would fit nicely as Ukraine has shown us, it can be done with a nice bustle auto loading system to boot.
 
X

X6958

New Member
The M-84 Degman looks pretty good, but the basis for it's design is the T-72, nothing American about that, other then the fact that they've blown up alot of them. The M-84 does look good though, a 125 smoothbore, ERA, composite armour (I think).
 
A

AegisFC

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Stop double (and triple) posting images in different threads about the same armed force, pick the most appropriate thread and post them their.
 
M

mic of orion

New Member
ghost70 said:
Some of you gay hear anything about a cooperation between USA and Croatian Army to build a new battle tank in Croatia?
In case of positive answer do you have some picture?

Thanks in advance........... :)
Click to expand...

To answer your question, NO Croatia is not cooperating with US on new tank, at least not to my knowledge. Croatia has 2 M84D and 2 M95 (prototypes) but due to w/e reason production of M95 never took off. the design of the tank was awesome, pretty nice turret as well, 3.2x4m was then size of 120mm L44 turret, than you add extra reactive armor...

M84 upgrade was chosen as cheapest and easiest alternative, procurement of L2A4's was also mentioned, but nothing happened with that deal either.

M84A4' fleet might be upgraded to a D standard at cost of 2.5 million USD per tank, but this process also depends on will of Kuwait to buy new M84D's. M84D uses Israeli Reactive armor and slat armor at the back, Israeli designed ammo and French/Slovenian optics and Norwegian remote firing station (protector). Also few other bits, but overall tank was brought to the 3rd Gen tank, only negative side of all this is the fact M84 is basically T-72 tank, and IMHO Croatia should scrap these Russian rust buckets and replace them with Leo 2A4's and than upgrade these to A6 when money is available.

Croatia did buy 126 Patria AMV's and this number will most likely rise to 252 vehicles by 2015 (additional 126 vehicles will definitely be purchased after 2012) and Croatia just purchased 70 additional Iveco LMV's which are to be armed with Kongsberg Protector turrets. Additional Iveco's might be purchased after 2010.

Of the tanks, Croatia has 80 M84A4, 2 M84D and M95, and additional 20 M84D tanks might be ordered...

Overall Croatia can't afford construction and development of new tank, to expensive, Croatia is rather small country with 4.5 million inhabitants, GDP of 80 billion USD and Defense budget of less than 1.2 billion USD. :)
 
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