Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates
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Are vultures circling the AWD program?
In today's Australian an article by Allan Behm (actually about the Seasprite program and program management) included the following comment about the AWDs:
Why would a program that involves constructing a proven design be a high risk? Is "Australianisation" involving too many changes? If this is the case I think it is a pity the RAN didn't just buy off the shelf Arleigh Burkes. If it had it could have saved more than a billion dollars on the FFGUP stuff up and used some of that money to improve retention to raise the extra personnel that would be have been needed to man the ABs.
I know its easy to be wise after the event!
Let's hope the report in The Australian is just another beat up.
Tas
In today's Australian an article by Allan Behm (actually about the Seasprite program and program management) included the following comment about the AWDs:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...8-7583,00.html
Why would a program that involves constructing a proven design be a high risk? Is "Australianisation" involving too many changes? If this is the case I think it is a pity the RAN didn't just buy off the shelf Arleigh Burkes. If it had it could have saved more than a billion dollars on the FFGUP stuff up and used some of that money to improve retention to raise the extra personnel that would be have been needed to man the ABs.
I know its easy to be wise after the event!
Let's hope the report in The Australian is just another beat up.
Tas
Ozzy Blizzard
New Member
T'would have provided more capability too. Go figure . I think cancelling a project of this scope would be out of the question, and would do nothing to combat inflation given the mid term costs (rather than short term).
. I think cancelling a project of this scope would be out of the question, and would do nothing to combat inflation given the mid term costs (rather than short term).
I can't see any way that the government will cancel this project. For one thing it would earn the wrath of the SA government which is also Labor. In addition the selection of the F-100 design was strongly supported by the Labor Party when in Opposition. The project is important for employment and for the generation of skills in the Oz workforce. What may be needed, perhaps, is a careful vetting of any changes being considered as part of the 'Australianisation' of the design. IMO the navy also needs to avoid getting 'too cute' (like the decision to use a two man crew in the Seasprite helo).
Tas
Ozzy Blizzard
New Member
Perhapse the frase 'risk averse' should be Mr Fitzgibons motto (and rightly so to some extent after disaster's of the calibur of seasprite and to a lessor degree FFGUP & M113). I wonder how large the "Australianization" was going to be? I thought it was limited to a slighly larger hanger, more fuel + a few other bits and pieces?
My understanding is similar to what AD said earlier. I expect that it will be limited to a (slightly) bigger helo hangar (sufficient to support a UAV as well as a helo), more fuel, 25mm Typhoon and 12.7mm "Mini-Typhoon" guns for defence against swarm attacks, Nulka and different radars. The design allows for a CIWS but as the RAN seems to have gone a bit cold re the fitting of CIWS to its ships (relying instead on ESSM) I expect this may be ommitted. Another alternative might be the use of upgraded ex FFG Vulcan Phalanx mountings. I expect that the integration of different weapons, radars, etc, so that they all work properly together will be the biggest challenge. Just look at the FFGUP! :shudder
Tas
t68
Well-Known Member
Hi guys
I can understand the spares going to New Zealand, but the airframes going back to Kaman?
Did we buy the air frames outright or was it a deal with Kaman to purchase and fit the equipment and then buy?
If it was the latter of the 2 then would Kaman own the spares as well?
It was a pity the gamble did not pay off I think it would have been a sweet little helicopter
What was the major problem with acceptance?
Would it have been easier to integrate if we bought new airframes and avionics to match the new systems requirements?
Why can’t they be returned to original and be giving to a government department that might have need for them such as rural fire service so that they could be use as a spotter in the high fire danger areas (or something similar which could make use of) that’s if we actually do own them only a thought .
Regards,
Tom
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I could of swore that the RAN was looking at fitting more VLS cells on the AWD's in addition to those other goodies.
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
My understanding is that the F-100 cannot accomodate any futher "strike length" Mk 41 VLS cells.
Therefore any further cells added (if it's even possible) will only be for ESSM. I haven't seem any official announcements one way or the other however.
Regards
AD
HMAS Sydney II found at last
At long last the search for the WW2 cruiser HMAS Sydney has ended, just a day after the find of the wreck of the German raider HSK Kormoran.
This is an historic day for the RAN and will bring closure to surviving family members. Unfortunately, there are many like my Uncle Jack, whose son was on Sydney but who sadly has already passed on.
RIP fellas.
Tas
At long last the search for the WW2 cruiser HMAS Sydney has ended, just a day after the find of the wreck of the German raider HSK Kormoran.
http://www.defence.gov.au/DefenceBlog/2008/0317_0323.htm#SydneyFound
This is an historic day for the RAN and will bring closure to surviving family members. Unfortunately, there are many like my Uncle Jack, whose son was on Sydney but who sadly has already passed on.
RIP fellas.
Tas
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Ozzy Blizzard
New Member
Wow, i cant beleive they finaly found her! I guess we'll know what actually got her soon? I'm sorry to hear about your Uncle Tas, i didnt know anyone connected with HMAS Sydney. A historic but sad day...
RIP those brave boys.
From the Department of Defence website: 'Fleet proficiencies improves as Concentration Period concludes
14 March - In the largest Australian domestic maritime exercise of its nature, three phases of training in a two-week program off Jervis Bay have concluded with the Royal Australian Navy’s Fleet Concentration Period 2008.
Task Group Commander Captain Peter Laver said hundreds of Royal Australian Navy personnel who started the exercise are now more proficient and confident in their duties.
“Overall we performed a huge range of activities, both in a geographical sense and in the evolutions we are now skilled up to do,” Captain Laver said.
“Some of the things we did were exceptionally complex, probably the first time many crews have conducted some of these difficult and challenging tasks.
Twenty-two Australian ships, along with aircraft from the Royal Australian Air Force, Royal New Zealand Air Force and the New Zealand and French Navy’s were involved in the six week program to enhance mariner and warfighting skills in the fleet.
The Fleet Concentration Period featured a graduated training program. The exercise started off with basic activities within ships that are relatively easy to conduct – allowing crew to practice their job the right way in a safe environment.
Building on that experience, more advanced activities were attempted in Phase 2, still in an environment where each activity was conducted as a discreet mission.
“The last stage was to integrate everything learned within the context of a scenario that required people to conduct tasks at short notice within a notional operational environment,” CAPT Laver said.
“And to raise the stakes, different activities were conducted at the same time with emergency drills as well."
CAPT Laver said the recent experience had prepared RAN ships and personnel to go onto even more complex exercises like CROIX DU SUD in Noumea and RIMPAC off Hawaii.'
Twenty-two RAN ships? Sounds like a mighty big exercise
14 March - In the largest Australian domestic maritime exercise of its nature, three phases of training in a two-week program off Jervis Bay have concluded with the Royal Australian Navy’s Fleet Concentration Period 2008.
Task Group Commander Captain Peter Laver said hundreds of Royal Australian Navy personnel who started the exercise are now more proficient and confident in their duties.
“Overall we performed a huge range of activities, both in a geographical sense and in the evolutions we are now skilled up to do,” Captain Laver said.
“Some of the things we did were exceptionally complex, probably the first time many crews have conducted some of these difficult and challenging tasks.
Twenty-two Australian ships, along with aircraft from the Royal Australian Air Force, Royal New Zealand Air Force and the New Zealand and French Navy’s were involved in the six week program to enhance mariner and warfighting skills in the fleet.
The Fleet Concentration Period featured a graduated training program. The exercise started off with basic activities within ships that are relatively easy to conduct – allowing crew to practice their job the right way in a safe environment.
Building on that experience, more advanced activities were attempted in Phase 2, still in an environment where each activity was conducted as a discreet mission.
“The last stage was to integrate everything learned within the context of a scenario that required people to conduct tasks at short notice within a notional operational environment,” CAPT Laver said.
“And to raise the stakes, different activities were conducted at the same time with emergency drills as well."
CAPT Laver said the recent experience had prepared RAN ships and personnel to go onto even more complex exercises like CROIX DU SUD in Noumea and RIMPAC off Hawaii.'
Twenty-two RAN ships? Sounds like a mighty big exercise
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
Indeed.From the Department of Defence website: 'Fleet proficiencies improves as Concentration Period concludes
14 March - In the largest Australian domestic maritime exercise of its nature, three phases of training in a two-week program off Jervis Bay have concluded with the Royal Australian Navy’s Fleet Concentration Period 2008.
Task Group Commander Captain Peter Laver said hundreds of Royal Australian Navy personnel who started the exercise are now more proficient and confident in their duties.
“Overall we performed a huge range of activities, both in a geographical sense and in the evolutions we are now skilled up to do,” Captain Laver said.
“Some of the things we did were exceptionally complex, probably the first time many crews have conducted some of these difficult and challenging tasks.
Twenty-two Australian ships, along with aircraft from the Royal Australian Air Force, Royal New Zealand Air Force and the New Zealand and French Navy’s were involved in the six week program to enhance mariner and warfighting skills in the fleet.
The Fleet Concentration Period featured a graduated training program. The exercise started off with basic activities within ships that are relatively easy to conduct – allowing crew to practice their job the right way in a safe environment.
Building on that experience, more advanced activities were attempted in Phase 2, still in an environment where each activity was conducted as a discreet mission.
“The last stage was to integrate everything learned within the context of a scenario that required people to conduct tasks at short notice within a notional operational environment,” CAPT Laver said.
“And to raise the stakes, different activities were conducted at the same time with emergency drills as well."
CAPT Laver said the recent experience had prepared RAN ships and personnel to go onto even more complex exercises like CROIX DU SUD in Noumea and RIMPAC off Hawaii.'
Twenty-two RAN ships? Sounds like a mighty big exercise
It ain't called the, "Fleet Concentration Period" for nothing...
Grandstrat
New Member
I can see that most of the LCH's were there and a load of Huon's, was this the extent of it?
Does anyone know which ships where involved?
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
HMAS Melbourne, HMAS Parramatta, HMAS Kanimbla, HMAS Tobruk, HMAS Collins, HMAS Brunei, HMAS Warramunga, HMAS Gascoyne, HMAS Pirie, HMAS Norman, HMAS Sirius are the platforms deployed by RAN that I have been able to find so far.
Basically every capability maintained by RAN was exercised.
HMNZS Te Mana also took part...
Is it a regular event?
RubiconNZ
The Wanderer
Yup, Annual occurrence.
I believe the Aussies do this exercise on an annual basis. Later in the northern hemisphere spring some of their ships will be exercising with the US Navy's RIMPAC exercises off Hawaii. RIMPAC usually include ships from almost every Pacific nation, from Asia, to Australia, and even to South America and North America. Pearl Harbor turns almost into an international fleet review, well of Pacific nations.
RubiconNZ
The Wanderer
Though slightly off topic I think it time the RNZN did some lobbying to get an invite, it wouldn't do anything but improve allied interoperability.
It would also be nice if New Zealand offered an invitation to a American submarine or frigate or destroyer. I read recently that our aircraft carriers are too deep in draft to visit Auckland. I am sure an aircraft carrier battle group visiting eastern Australia would be more than happy to send either a frigate or a destroyer or a submarine to Auckland.
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