What Assault Rifle - British Army Should Replace SA-80 A2 With?
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Have you even used a L85A2?
It doesn't need replacing and there is nothing wrong with it except it's weight.
It's also a little harder to maintain because it's more complex internaly.
Other than that it's more accurate and hit's harder than an M-16 and it's more reliable...
L85A1 was supposed to have been rubbish though, forever jamming...
It doesn't need replacing and there is nothing wrong with it except it's weight.
It's also a little harder to maintain because it's more complex internaly.
Other than that it's more accurate and hit's harder than an M-16 and it's more reliable...
L85A1 was supposed to have been rubbish though, forever jamming...
quite a good site on the weapon here with some of its recent upgrades and pictures....www.world.guns.ru/assault/as22-e.htm
If, the government was foolish enough to replace something they have spent so much time and money but rather little effort as they brought H&K in on it. I recommend the Steyr AUG A3 (not the Australian version the Steyr Version), it has the best mult-role ability, eg sniper, grenade laucher etc.
I wish Australia should upgrade to this form of the A3 but it has somthing to do with the license it has to produce the Steyr and the fact that the government wants to do it in Aus because they want to make themselves and the public feel better.
I wish Australia should upgrade to this form of the A3 but it has somthing to do with the license it has to produce the Steyr and the fact that the government wants to do it in Aus because they want to make themselves and the public feel better.
lonelytoad
New Member
L85A2 is not reliable enough. HK G11, the caseless one, may be a good choice. accuracy, light weight, high shooting speed, you name it. the only weakness is expenditure, around $2000 each rifle. but it could reduce for mass production.
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Are you kidding? The G11 is a dead duck for anyone and that includes the German Army..............its been dead as a weapon system for about 8 or so years now!
The L85A2 is good enough, certainly better than M4 and its tendency to jam BUT I'm NOT a User, go ask them what needs to be replaced when.........the rest of us are just REM-F's...........
lonelytoad
New Member
G11 is not dead. G11 was and is a trend. It is still in service in German special troops. It was not put into mass production only because of the reunion of Germany. German government thought that there was no demand for such powerful infrantry soldier system, which now seems a stupid decision. They also hoped that they could have used the low cost AK tech from East Germany to find a cheper rifle for German soldiers. Unfortunately, this idea was vetoed because both West and East German dislike AK, the symbol of cold war and iron curtain.
:smokie But I agree with you that MOD should let the army man make the decision.:smokie
:smokie But I agree with you that MOD should let the army man make the decision.:smokie
Good joke.
There are about 500 to 1,000 G11 rusting away in some depot or another (err, or whatever plastic does) if they aren't scrapped, and that's it.
The G11 has never been in German service beyond the initial trials with some 600 rifles in 1989 (roughly).
The contract for the G11 (initial contract: 350,000 rifles) was cancelled in 1990, and the system has been dead since then. No development, no production, neither weapon system nor ammunition.
The AK74 however was in Bundeswehr service for about 2-3 years initially, in units in Eastern Germany, before the big 1993 drawdown. Was designated "MP74" in service, i.e. a SMG, not a rifle.
There are about 500 to 1,000 G11 rusting away in some depot or another (err, or whatever plastic does) if they aren't scrapped, and that's it.
The G11 has never been in German service beyond the initial trials with some 600 rifles in 1989 (roughly).
The contract for the G11 (initial contract: 350,000 rifles) was cancelled in 1990, and the system has been dead since then. No development, no production, neither weapon system nor ammunition.
The AK74 however was in Bundeswehr service for about 2-3 years initially, in units in Eastern Germany, before the big 1993 drawdown. Was designated "MP74" in service, i.e. a SMG, not a rifle.
@lonelytoad:
I'm sorry, but I've never read such a mistake-laden post in the entirity of this Forum. No offence, but not a single of your statements is true, except for the fact that the G11-project was cancelled due to the end of the cold war.
- No G11 in German service (not a single one! Neither in Special nor regular forces)
- If that was a "stupid decision" is of course a matter of everyones own opinion, but the G11 was not without flaws and far from being a perfect rifle.
- The Bundeswehr never wanted the AK as standard issue rifle, and if they wanted, there would be no problem with it. I think several units of the Ex-NVA used the AK for a couple of month or longer after the reunion.
€dit/ Dang, too late...
I'm sorry, but I've never read such a mistake-laden post in the entirity of this Forum. No offence, but not a single of your statements is true, except for the fact that the G11-project was cancelled due to the end of the cold war.
- No G11 in German service (not a single one! Neither in Special nor regular forces)
- If that was a "stupid decision" is of course a matter of everyones own opinion, but the G11 was not without flaws and far from being a perfect rifle.
- The Bundeswehr never wanted the AK as standard issue rifle, and if they wanted, there would be no problem with it. I think several units of the Ex-NVA used the AK for a couple of month or longer after the reunion.
€dit/ Dang, too late...
lonelytoad
New Member
Thank you Kato and David to correct my wrong information about G11, anyway.I didnot intend to use the stupid "stupid" word in an offensive way. Only because I like G11 very much. After all, caseless tech is a breakthrough like small cal. bullet. It could have changed the complexion of single soldier sytem if it was not ceased. Even though it had flaws and weakness at that time.
lonelytoad
New Member
There was a test. If you want to reduce influence from recoile to minimum level 3-round bursting, the rate of firing should exceed 2000 rpm. That was what G11 reach at that time.
What would you replace it with and why? Or are you another know-it-all, who read an article in the Guardian and suddenly knows everything about the L85?
So far on this thread, I have read rubbish, from people who clearly have never used the L85.
So here's my view. I found the L85A1/2 (SA-80) a cumbersome, heavy and complicated piece of kit. It demanded constant attention, a thorough cleaning and a thoughtful person at the end of it.
When looked after however and in the hands of a British Soldier, it's battle-winner - as prooven. And with the A2 upgrade by BAE/HK, the British Infantryman has a weapon that is not only combat proven but combat trusted.
Give the G11 to our one of our boys in Helmend Province, Afghanistan.
You'll get it back unused and with kisses.
Atilla [TR]
New Member
Magpul Masada, HK G41, MKE Mehmetcik 1, But yeah Stery Aug maybe was the way to go at the time maybe still the best choice.
Yeah, I voted too soon, I voted for the Scar :nutkick and then hoped onto the steyr website, not only does the A3 look awesome check out the roles it can fill. You have to love a weapon that looks like its from 50 years in the future, love those sexy curves. The sniper variant is very interesting especially if one was to adopt a designated marksman or want to be able to pick someone off and then shoot full auto at another target.
Atilla [TR]
New Member
Actually HK is not owned by BAE anymore. I do not remember where but it was sold to a GErman holding company. Mehmetcik 1 is not identical to the HK 416. But it has a piece of all M4's from the Canadian designed scope.It uses a different kind off metal (inter alia) that HK does not use, of course this one is much superior and much better in the cold or the heat which is needed for Turkeys wide range of temperatures and the brits could use it in Iraq, and it does not expand as quickly as other metals, and much more resistant to the elements (i.e snow, dirt, tiny pebbles of rocks, sand). If you want more info on the Mehmetcik 1 you can go on to a forum I created, New rifle for the Turkish armed forces link:http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7301. The Masada is a work of art! It is made by Magpul corporation in the U.S and it does everything that the American armed forces wants. Every single part of it has been made for combat from the ground up, it is very light and has a free floating barrel and the and it can be converted to any major combat rifle ammo in seconds with such and easy way to change the barrel. It can be taken apart in no time at all and is very easy to clean. The piston pressure can be changed for the amount of recoil you want.