What Assault Rifle - British Army Should Replace SA-80 A2 With?

[shanes_world_05]

well see after the recession

Hey guys,
You all have good points. I think the change in weapon will follow change in calibre which in turn will follow firstly recessionary concerns receeding, Nato discussion and agreement, other defence acquisitions getting there priority meet.
6.5 and 6.8 must be the favourites but LSAT is certainly a major contender.
Came across this one though and I dont get how something so small and conceptually so simple can deliver on so much so take it with a grain of salt. Although it comes from Sweden and they are pretty clever there.
the new 6.5x25 CBJ cartridge

If it does work it would be a blessing to carry. But let me know if you know something about this, it has me curious. Just seems strange it can out penetrate 7.62 nato with recoil like 9mm.
Author of the website reckons its still alive in development.

Cheers

Shane

 

[Toby]

they wont change it for along time the budget is being cut and the tory in charge of defence now favors the navy the army will have cuts and will struggle keeping projects like fres let alone spending money on a new gun i think there wont be a new standard issue rifle for 10 years and by then who knows what kind of weapons and calibres will be around then. The sf have plenty of toys but standard issue wont change because the l85a2 is a good weapon why replace it with a tavor there very similar anyway. and just no to the ak just no.. although i like aks... just no lol

 

[King_Typhoon]

i'd say anything we would use next would be with 7.62 or similar i havent yet seen anyone mention the ACR

I am sure that british their not issues ACR design, because it was USA seek future assualt rifle for replace M4 and M16. (ACR vs SCAR-L, etc etc)

The UK isn't likely to break from the NATO standard for a variety of reasons (politics, logistics, cost, tactical concerns (sound of rifle causing potential blue-on-blue), etc.). AKs, are at this point...highly unlikely.

i agreed that UK wont break NATO standard. that why i recommeced re-evalution round 9mm (pistol or submachine) also 5.56mm (assualt rifle), 7.62mm (machine gun) still it far away realism for re-evalution parts as they often slow progress.

p.s. personal - i think NATO are go slow disband soon, as they go quiet because (1) cold war are over for long time (2) often other countries against veto for iraq or afghan war.

i think they should go closed NATO and set up International alliance treat orgainse some thing like that (IATO) or worldwide protection treat.

only threat is, as we live in terriosim

we all not in threat like soviet was in cold war. just rogue countries or terriosim that all.

agreed or disagreed?

(hope you understand what i mean as my english are poor.... other note i am not expert just surf hobby of war stuff.)

 

[IronsightSniper]

AK-47

:d

 

[a30challanger]

L85A2 is not reliable enough. HK G11, the caseless one, may be a good choice. accuracy, light weight, high shooting speed, you name it. the only weakness is expenditure, around $2000 each rifle. but it could reduce for mass production.

There is no need to replace the SA80 it is perfectly fine although it was never as good as the SLR and why would the MOD replace it they have spent years perfecting it and chuck money down the drain?

 

[Abraham Gubler]

The contract for the G11 (initial contract: 350,000 rifles) was cancelled in 1990, and the system has been dead since then. No development, no production, neither weapon system nor ammunition.

Not quite. Dynamit Nobel sold a tech package to the US for caseless ammo which has been developed a bit as part of the LSAT program.

But to the question at hand. Any future rifle being considered by first world players will be a digitally integrated rifle (Electronic Architecture). Like the new Australian EF88 that is ready to go but given a few year delay by the last government budget.

 

[winnyfield]

There is no need to replace the SA80 it is perfectly fine ... why would the MOD replace it they have spent years perfecting it and chuck money down the drain?

The production line for SA80s have been closed for many years - A2 model were refurbished rather than new builds. A bespoke rifle that no-one else uses, it gonna be increasingly hard to maintain.

 

[StobieWan]

Very true -there's no pressing need right now - troop acceptance is high, we've just spent a ton of cash on rail systems, new sights etc on the thing as a stream of UOR's and it works fine - but it's no longer in production.

Commissioning new receivers might be possible as a production run but it'd be possibly cheaper to buy a new weapon.


FN2000 anyone ? Something bullpup seems sensible, given we've got a user base already used to the layout and who appreciate the ease of handling in close quarters.

 

[Bonza]

I'd say there's any number of 5.56mm rifles on the market that would suffice, but really at this point I expect the larger militaries of the world would rather see out the service life of their current generation of weapons and spent the money on something that's more of a step forward, rather than replacing "like for like"... it'll be interesting to see what comes out of programs like LSAT, etc.

 

[StevoJH]

Epic thread necromancy anyone?

 

[StobieWan]

Ah, come off it - four years isn't even close to a record around here

 

[sgtgunn]

If the UK was looking to replace the L85A2 my recommendation would be either the HN SCAR or the H&K 416, but I'm not sure if either weapon offers a significant enough advanatge over the L85A2 to warrant the expense.

Adrian

 

[StobieWan]

If the UK was looking to replace the L85A2 my recommendation would be either the HN SCAR or the H&K 416, but I'm not sure if either weapon offers a significant enough advanatge over the L85A2 to warrant the expense.

Adrian

I think we're quite a way from replacing the L85A2 - it's reputation is now quite good amongst the forces so we've plenty of time to ruminate on choices.

With luck the results of the LSAT testing will be known and we can make a substantial leap forward as opposed to just "same again with a different handle"

 

[Chino]

...but I'm not sure if either weapon offers a significant enough advanatge over the L85A2 to warrant the expense.

Adrian

IMO the answer is a very definite "no".

Sidetracking...

... the French are allegedly in the process of picking a replacement for their FAMAS bullpup. It would be very interesting to find out the outcome as it'll re-ignite the age-old debate about... Oh, I better not go there.

 

[sgtgunn]

I think we're quite a way from replacing the L85A2 - it's reputation is now quite good amongst the forces so we've plenty of time to ruminate on choices.

With luck the results of the LSAT testing will be known and we can make a substantial leap forward as opposed to just "same again with a different handle"

I'm really excited by the LSAT LMG. The prospect of a M249 replacment that weighs under 10 pounds and has greater accuracy and less recoil is pretty awesome. I really hope that the US Army rides the LSAT/telescoping cased ammo bomb to the target and fields a weapon system. Lately it seems like the US MO is to spend a ton of money, develop a system over a decade and cancel it right before production becuase its either too expensive now or the "requirement has changed"...

Adrian (former M249 Gunner)

 

[masio]

m4

all we need is a different rifle.

there is no need for a 7.62 for what we need it for.
simply because our current military function is peace keeping not go in a kill everyone.

the 5.56 might not go a far but it wont go through the target. 9 times out of 10 the peron you are trying to kill is in front of something you cant damage E.G another soilder, hostage, aircraft and cilians

add a new rifle like we did that uses the 7.62 for when we need it

just change the sa 80 to an m4

 

[RobWilliams]

Why?

The L85A2 is now everything the British Army wanted; a reliable, light + short 5.56 rifle which came with a 4x scope as standard and can pack a UGL. Now the front of the weapon is covered with picatinny rails and the result is they're becoming pretty customisable and you can put pretty much any accessory - I assume - that an M4 can carry because of this

Why does the UK "need" the M4 as you put it, you seem fairly determined in this point.

 

[masio]

Why?

The L85A2 is now everything the British Army wanted; a reliable, light + short 5.56 rifle which came with a 4x scope as standard and can pack a UGL. Now the front of the weapon is covered with picantinny rails and the result is they're becoming pretty customisable and you can put pretty much any accessory - I assume - that an M4 can carry because of this

Why does the UK "need" the M4 as you put it, you seem fairly determined in this point.

well sa 80 do not work for me. i'm a lefty so they really dont work for me even the left handed varant. i see your point but with the history of the A1 i dont trust it. and are you talking about the ACOG or SUSAT

 

[RobWilliams]

SUSAT was the standard 4x optic for the SA80 and the optic on the attached images was mostly the ACOG which was a latter development for the L85

To look at the A1 and use that as the basic model of the A2 is illogical, H&K (then owned by British Aerospace I think) was contracted to improve the internal mechanism of the A1 which was shocking. The result is a weapon that has an incredibly high reliability in harsh environments demonstrated in Afghan.

Here's a brief video on what Andy McNab thinks about it, if you like the man or not either way he was in the SAS so his opinion on firearms - to me - seems like a solid judgement as i've personally had zero experience with the SA80 series, or in fact any type of full automatic weapon.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fcCaIOgB-U"]Andy McNab Explains the SA80 - YouTube[/nomedia]


So the primary reason you believe the entire British Armed Forces (Army, Marines, RAF Regt, everyone) should change their surface rifle because you as a left handed shooter can't get on with the weapon? I never even knew a leftie version existed, always thought it was a case of if you use it left handed you're gunna get hot cartridges ejecting into your face.

That doesn't do it for me mate, not by a long shot.

 

[masio]

I still see your point and I'm not saying anything you said is wrong but pretty much all military personnel I know have said they don't like it and its a good rifle and for sas bloke uses it for is perfect for his use. I'm just saying it should be change due to what our every day solider wants because he had to trust it. And by the way my uncle nearly got kill by one so I'm not going to support it.


P.S there is fallacy in your argument