B-2 Crashes in Guam

[RubiconNZ]

Well just read this from BBC:

A US B-2 stealth bomber - one of the most expensive military aircraft in the world - has crashed at an air base on the Pacific island of Guam.

The United States Air Force (USAF) said both pilots had ejected safely before the plane came down at Andersen Air Force Base, shortly after take-off.

A spokeswoman said it was the first time a B-2 had crashed.

B-2 bombers, which can evade most radar signals, cost about $1.2bn (£610m) each to build.

They have a range of 6,000 nautical miles (11,112 km) without refuelling and have seen service in Kosovo, Iraq and Afghanistan.

Thick, black smoke could be seen coming from the wreckage following the crash.

Lieutenant Colonel Doug Smith from the USAF told the BBC that the crash would be investigated.

"The two pilots... ejected prior to the crash. One of them was medically evaluated and released and the other is in a stable condition at a naval hospital," he said.

Guam is a US territory 3,700 miles south-west of Hawaii. Its capital is Hagatna.

USAF B-2 Stealth Bomber Crashes on Guam

Well it is has been a terrible week for the USAF, first a pilot killed in the F-15 crash, and now the loss of a B-2 with one pilot seriously injured. Hopefully he will pull through.A heavy loss, there are only now 20 operational B-2's.

Although the incidents are clearly separate I wonder if this may point to the USAF suffering under a high op tempo with perhaps insufficient maintenance, early days I know but it does make me wonder.

 

[thorpete1]

thats a big occurence for the USAF. A B-2 is going to be hard to replace on there order of battle.

Wonder if they can build a new one or will they replace it with 4 F-22's or a squadron of F-35's

Prehaps this crash might even spur along the development of the US's next heavy bomber, depending on the crashs circumstances of course.

cheers

 

[RubiconNZ]

Update With Pictures

Fox New has this to say:

HAGATNA, Guam — The Air Force on Saturday was investigating the cause of a crash in which a B-2 stealth bomber plunged to the ground shortly after taking off from an air base in Guam on Saturday, the first time one crashed, Air Force officials said.

"We recovered both pilots in good health," retired Air Force Capt. Chuck Nash told FOX News of the crew members, who ejected from the bomber before it crashed.

The billion-dollar aircraft was taking off with three others on their last flight out of Guam after a four-month deployment, part of a continuous U.S. bomber presence in the western Pacific. After the crash, the other three bombers were being kept on Guam, said Maj. Eric Hilliard at Hickham Air Force Base in Hawaii. There are only 21 B-2 stealth bombers in existence.

"Today's crash represents 5 percent of that B-2 stealth bomber inventory," Nash said.

At least one B-2 bomber had taken off safely from Andersen Air Force Base but was brought back when another aircraft plunged to the ground.

There were no injuries on the ground or damage to buildings, and no munitions were on board. Each B-2 bomber costs about $1.2 billion to build, and there are only 21.

Thick, black smoke could be seen billowing from the wreckage at Andersen, said Jeanne Ward, a resident in the northern village of Yigo who was on the base visiting her husband.

Ward said she didn't witness the crash but noticed a rising plume of smoke behind the base's air control tower.

She said crowds began to gather as emergency vehicles arrived. "Everybody was on their cell phones, and the first thing everyone wanted to know was did the pilots make it out in time," she said.

The Air Force, without identifying the pilots, said one was medically evaluated and released, and the other was in stable condition at Guam Naval Hospital.

A board of officers will investigate what caused the bat-like aircraft to crash at 10:30 a.m., shortly after taking off from a runway. It was the first crash of a B-2 bomber, said Capt. Sheila Johnston, a spokeswoman for Air Combat Command at Langley Air Force Base in Virginia.

All 21 stealth bombers are based at Whiteman Air Force Base in Missouri, but the Air Force has been rotating several of them through Guam since 2004, along with B-1 and B-52 bombers.

The rotations are designed to boost the U.S. security presence in the Asia-Pacific region while other U.S. forces diverted to fight in the Middle East.

The B-2 was first publicly displayed in 1988 and took its first flight a year later. The first bomber was delivered to Whiteman in 1993.

The bombers on Guam were scheduled to return to Missouri now that six B-52s from the 96th Bomb Wing at Barksdale Air Force Base, La., have arrived to replace them.

The distinctive B-2 is described as a "multi-role bomber" that blends stealth technology with a highly efficient aerodynamic design. It is able to deliver large payloads at great range and has been used in combat over Kosovo, Afghanistan and Iraq.

The accident occurred 11 days after a Navy plane crashed into the ocean about 20 miles northeast of Guam's Ritidian Point. Four aircrew members ejected from the EA-6B Prowler electronic warfare aircraft and were rescued by helicopter.

Guam is a U.S. territory 3,700 miles southwest of Hawaii.

The B-2 can deliver conventional and nuclear munitions and its "stealth" characteristics allow it to penetrate an enemy's most sophisticated defenses, according to GlobalSecurity.org.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

 

[F-15 Eagle]

Ah man now they only have 20 B-2s instead of 21. Now I'm really depressed. Maybe they might build a new one and add funds for it in the 2009 defense budget, I doubt it though. Jets crashing is not new for the Air force these days. Its like a jet crashes every week now...a little frightening.:shudder I would not be surprised if another one will crash next week.

 

[RubiconNZ]

While I am not suggesting it or even thinking it likely I do wonder if the US has the capability to resurrect the B-2 assembly line, perhaps there is some reserve capability to do so in case of a full scale war, it would seem having NO capability to quickly build a bomber class, perhaps they would rely first on restoring the boneyard fleets first.

 

[thorpete1]

If they plan on restoring some of there boneyard fleet to cover for the loss of the B-2, they should get the EF-111's flying again to help cover the older bombers. Who in the USAF had the stupid idea of retiring them anyway, SOJ was cancelled/put on hold and now they have to rely on the navy for EW.

 

[Pro'forma]

This young chenese men know nothing.
So sadly.
New disaster squad training videos.
Prepare well.

 

[Todjaeger]

While I am not suggesting it or even thinking it likely I do wonder if the US has the capability to resurrect the B-2 assembly line, perhaps there is some reserve capability to do so in case of a full scale war, it would seem having NO capability to quickly build a bomber class, perhaps they would rely first on restoring the boneyard fleets first.

From this reference at Globalsecurity, it would appear that the B-2 production line has been closed done. Estimates listed a startup cost of US$2-4 billion to establish the production capacity, though NG had offered circa-2001 a 40 aircraft production run at US$735 million each. However, AFAIK Northrup Grumman no longer has the production facilities to construct an entire aircraft, so it is unclear whether they would be able to restart construction.

Instead, if it was felt that more B-2 Spirits were needed, perhaps Boeing could initiate production with assistance from Northrup Grumman.

On the other hand, given economic concerns, as well as IMV substantial pressure on the US defence budget given current operations as well as development programs throughout the services, I am not certain that the funds to purchase replacement B-2s could be gotten without robbing Peter to pay Paul.

As for taking aircraft out of Davis-Motham, there are no aircraft there that can fufil the role a B-2 can play. While there might be long-range strategic aircraft that can be reactivated, there are none that displays (err does not display rather) the LO capabilities of a B-2. Also, an F-22, or even several of them, does not replace a B-2 either having far less range and payload capacity.

An interesting question with regards to this, would be how long would it take before the loss of a B-2 began being felt operationally. Similarly, how long would it take for a replacement aircraft to enter service?

I have a feeling that the USAF might be forced to restructure unit assignments and aircraft taskings and otherwise make do, given how long it would likely take for an aircraft to be finished, once the decision to start production was made.

-Cheers

 

[thorpete1]

wether the US pulls aircraft out of the boneyard, replaces the lost B-2 with F-35's of F-22's or starts up the B-2 production line, its all going to cost a lot of money. Prehaps hte money could go towards the USAF's future bomber program and get a newer, cheaper, easier to maintain stealth bomber.

 

[SlyDog]

From .
As for taking aircraft out of Davis-Motham, there are no aircraft there that can fufil the role a B-2 can play. While there might be long-range strategic aircraft that can be reactivated, there are none that displays (err does not display rather) the LO capabilities of a B-2. Also, an F-22, or even several of them, does not replace a B-2 either having far less range and payload capacity.

But is it to remote to solve the loss of the B-2 by compensate it by let say 2 B-1 whith in turn being compensated by few F-22 ?

 

[kiwifighter300]

If I'm not mistaken (and I could be). The B-52's in the bone yard are in five pieces each and the remaining B-1 (26, I believe) have been (or are being) stripped of useful parts, so I doubt that they would fly again.

Cheers

 

[SlyDog]

Ayayay, that´s bad, I didnt had a slitest idea about it..well that tells me that I have very limited knowlage in this area.

 

[Todjaeger]

But is it to remote to solve the loss of the B-2 by compensate it by let say 2 B-1 whith in turn being compensated by few F-22 ?

There is also the question of how effectively other aircraft can fufill the role a B-2 has/can have. In terms of range and payload, yes, a B-1 can serve more or less the same role that a B-2 does. Similarly, a VLO F-22 can penetrate IADS. What the subsitute aircraft cannot all do, is meet the combination of range, payload and LO/VLO characteristics that a B-2 can.

If the mission parameters are such that a bomb truck is required, but will not need to penetrate enemy air defences, then a B-1 or B-52 would do quite well, particularly if it needed to be done from long range. If limited strikes on a well defended target nearby was the mission, the assuming suitable basing was available, F-22s could be used. However, if no appropriate forward bases were available and/or large quantities of ordnance were needed, either which had to be brought through minimal detection, then a B-2 is called for.

Now if current B-2s in inventory are being used in areas where the LO characteristics are not needed, then perhaps activating other aircraft more appropriate to the mission might reduce some strain the loss of a B-2 could cause. Again, this is assuming that any replacement aircraft are available or could be gotten. Given what the state of the current inventory seems to be, as well as what is in the order pipeline and boneyard, the idea of replacement aircraft seems dim, at least in the near (next 5 years) term.

-Cheers

 

[F-15 Eagle]

I would expect that they could do one of 3 things:

1. They could try to rebuild the crashed bomber.(they have been able to rebuild crashed jets before)
2. Restart the production line.
3. Buy 4 or more F-22s to replace the crashed B-2.(most likely scenario)

Once they figure out the cause of the crash then they really need to consider the replacement for the crashed B-2 bomber.

 

[bm-21]

If they plan on restoring some of there boneyard fleet to cover for the loss of the B-2, they should get the EF-111's flying again to help cover the older bombers. Who in the USAF had the stupid idea of retiring them anyway, SOJ was cancelled/put on hold and now they have to rely on the navy for EW.

Thay can't, all are owned by the Australian government and most have been stripped by Australian govt. at the boneyard for parts. F-111s and Ef-111s and Fb-111s

 

[Todjaeger]

Thay can't, all are owned by the Australian government and most have been stripped by Australian govt. at the boneyard for parts. F-111s and Ef-111s and Fb-111s

The F-111s in service belong to the RAAF, having purchased a total of 35, including a number for spares. IIRC there are approximately 17 still in service in Oz, but that number is to be winding down until retirement in ~2010.

At the time of retirement from the USAF in 1996, there were ~225 in service. It is likely that a number of airframes are still sitting in Davis Motham, but it is very questionable as to how effective (cost/time-wise) it would be to have them refurbished. Given the airframe age, as well as new developments in weapons, avionics and engines, the aircraft would virtually need to be rebuilt.

Such an undertaking would be expensive, as well as time consuming unless some sort of critical need fast track acquisition could be done. Even then, time would be needed to design the upgrade, select the airframes for rentry in service, then implement the upgrades.

Also, even with this being done successfully (if that is possible), the upgraded F-111 still will not have the range, payload or IADS penetration capabilities that a B-2 has.

-Cheers

 

[Todjaeger]

I would expect that they could do one of 3 things:

1. They could try to rebuild the crashed bomber.(they have been able to rebuild crashed jets before)
2. Restart the production line.
3. Buy 4 or more F-22s to replace the crashed B-2.(most likely scenario)

Once they figure out the cause of the crash then they really need to consider the replacement for the crashed B-2 bomber.

Given the fact that the pilots ejected, and the plume of smoke visible in some of the pictures and statements witnesses have made about the aircraft going down right after takeoff, it is likely that it crashed and burned. It would therefore be reasonable to expect significant damage to the overall structure as well as individual components. Even at a per unit cost of US$1.2 billion, it might be too much to repair, since whole sections might require replacement, particularly if the frame cannot be returned to the same shape and structural integrity.

As for using F-22's as replacements... I do not see that as being a viable option, unless the B-2 fleet is restricted solely to long range stealthy strikes, which is something the F-22 cannot emulate without onerous AAR support. That in and of itself could reduce the usefulness of the F-22's VLO features since the tankers might be spotted.

As for resuming production, as mentioned there would be problems getting series production restarted. What might be possible is for some of the maintenance/machining and support units to "handcraft" a replacement B-2. It would likely be time consuming to do and have a higher per unit cost when compared to the per unit cost spread across the initial order, but should have a lower total program cost than a new 40 plane B-2 order (~ US$30 billion in 2001 dollars would be my estimate).

-Cheers

 

[F-15 Eagle]

Given the fact that the pilots ejected, and the plume of smoke visible in some of the pictures and statements witnesses have made about the aircraft going down right after takeoff, it is likely that it crashed and burned. It would therefore be reasonable to expect significant damage to the overall structure as well as individual components. Even at a per unit cost of US$1.2 billion, it might be too much to repair, since whole sections might require replacement, particularly if the frame cannot be returned to the same shape and structural integrity.

As for using F-22's as replacements... I do not see that as being a viable option, unless the B-2 fleet is restricted solely to long range stealthy strikes, which is something the F-22 cannot emulate without onerous AAR support. That in and of itself could reduce the usefulness of the F-22's VLO features since the tankers might be spotted.

As for resuming production, as mentioned there would be problems getting series production restarted. What might be possible is for some of the maintenance/machining and support units to "handcraft" a replacement B-2. It would likely be time consuming to do and have a higher per unit cost when compared to the per unit cost spread across the initial order, but should have a lower total program cost than a new 40 plane B-2 order (~ US$30 billion in 2001 dollars would be my estimate).

-Cheers

The F-22s are the only option to replace the crashed B-2. Its not the best but it is better than nothing and the Air Force will do anything to get more F-22s. Like in 2006 they wanted to retire 38 B-52s, all U-2s, and a few other types, that was rejected by Congress in the end though. I don't see the Air Force restarting the B-2 production line after 15 years and there is no point ether. A few more F-22s is the best option until the 2018 bomber comes online.

 

[Atilla [TR]]

I personally think they are not going to replace it with anything. Think about it they got 20 only lost one how much is one going to make a difference?

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

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