All I will state is that the Al - Khalid is a very capable tank and would prove quite deadly on any future battlefield. The very fact that they could of added additional T-80UDs to their order of battle but instead proceeded with the Al - Khalid says alot for this tank.
Pakistan Army News and Discussions
- Thread starter kashifshahzad
- Start date
I don't think that this fact speaks for or against it. 
That a country chooses an in country produced tank instead of an imported one has at least as much to do with politics, money, jobs and pride as with capabilities.
I don't want to say that the AK is crap or great I just say that just the fact that Pakistan purchased it instead of more T-80UDs is not the best indicator for it's capabilities.
That a country chooses an in country produced tank instead of an imported one has at least as much to do with politics, money, jobs and pride as with capabilities.
I don't want to say that the AK is crap or great I just say that just the fact that Pakistan purchased it instead of more T-80UDs is not the best indicator for it's capabilities.
mysterious
New Member
Then you're missing out on the history of Al-Khalid's development since from what I can remember many aspects of the T-80UDs have been integrated in the Al-Khalid as well as NORINCO's input. To procure T-80UDs and Al-Khalid at the same time would be an overlap as Pakistan Army would simply be getting two beasts with more or less similar capabilities.
Aliph Ahmed
Banned Member
I think what eckherl meant and I find myself in agreement with him is that Al-Khalid is better then T-80UD.
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mysterious
New Member
I was responding to Waylander.
There are reports of an Al Khalid-1 that will enter production sometime 2011...by then the South Korean K2, Turkish MITUP, Japanese TK-X - 4th generation MBTs - will enter service. I wonder how much of an upgrade AK-1 is from the AK...could it be an MBT in the league of the mentioned MBTs (MITUP, K2, TK-X)?
mysterious
New Member
Even with Al-Khalid-1, one thing I think we can speculate with some surity is that the weight of the beast would be kept to around 50 ton mark. Pakistan knows Indian struggles with 55 ton Arjuns so I dont think they'll be interested in making an sort of modifications/upgrades that would significantly increase the tonnage. If the weight does go over 50 ton they'd have to weigh on different options regarding a replacement of the current Ukranian engine [not necessarily a non-Ukranian one, but certainly a more capable one].
I guess the time for a 1500hp engine and better armor technology for the AK-series is approaching - in AK-1 culminating the evolution. There were even reports of Pakistan signing onto the Turkish tank project...I wonder if AK-1 would adopt anything from MITUP. I also wonder if PA would switch to 120mm from 125mm.
@mysterious
Exactly because of this I stated that I didn't intend to talk AK down.
I was just emphasizing my opinion that when a country purchases an indigenous produced tank instead of an imported one it is not an indicator for better capabilities because naturally jobs, money, know-how, industry, independence and pride play at least an equal role in that.
Even if a in country produced/developed tank is slightly inferior most countries would IMHO opt for the indegenous tank instead of the imported one for the reasons I mentioned above.
I have no doubt that a lot of experience from operating and fielding the T-80UDs has been implemented in the AK design and it could well be that it is at least equal if not better.
Exactly because of this I stated that I didn't intend to talk AK down.
I was just emphasizing my opinion that when a country purchases an indigenous produced tank instead of an imported one it is not an indicator for better capabilities because naturally jobs, money, know-how, industry, independence and pride play at least an equal role in that.
Even if a in country produced/developed tank is slightly inferior most countries would IMHO opt for the indegenous tank instead of the imported one for the reasons I mentioned above.
I have no doubt that a lot of experience from operating and fielding the T-80UDs has been implemented in the AK design and it could well be that it is at least equal if not better.
Just a sidenote(though off topic), IA's problem with Arjun is NOT weight.
IA complaining about bridges not able to hold Arjun is not about the ones on the Indian side,rather the ones on the Pakistani side. All the border bridges on the Indian side is 70 ton class.
IA problem with Arjun is investment in logistics and training. Imagine converting a whole of armour guys from a Russian tank doctrine to a western tank doctrine!
Aliph Ahmed
Banned Member
mysterious
New Member
SriLanka orders Emergency Pak Military Supplies
* India concerned over Pak-Lanka ties
NEW DELHI: Sri Lanka has ordered emergency military supplies from Pakistan in a bid to tackle resistance from Tamil Tiger fighters, the IRNA news agency on Thursday quoted official sources as saying in New Delhi.
In a development noted with some concern by the Indian establishment, the Sri Lanka Army has sought 150,000 rounds of 60mm mortar ammunition and as many hand grenades for immediate delivery, IANS reported here.
Sri Lanka has also requested $25 million worth of 81 mm, 120 mm and 130 mm mortar ammunition to be delivered within a month.
Sri Lankan army chief General Sarath Fonseka spent six days in Pakistan last month and conveyed the requirements to his Pakistani counterpart, General Ashraf Pervez Kayani.
The Pakistani military has agreed to supply the ammunition on an emergency basis from its War Wastage Reserve, maintained at several army depots.
The SOS comes amid escalating fighting in Sri Lanka where the military is desperately trying to gain control of northern territory held by the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE).
Resistance from LTTE has pushed Sri Lanka to turn to Pakistan, to make up ammunition stocks, the Indian sources claimed.
Military ties: Sri Lanka started buying arms and ammunition from Pakistan from 1999.
The total purchases up to December 2007 were worth $50 million.
There has been a sharp increase in the quantity of merchandise ordered this year.
Pakistan’s main military supplies to Sri Lanka include mortar ammunition, radio sets, hand grenades, naval ammunition and tanks.
The military links between Islamabad and Colombo worry New Delhi because it allows Pakistan access to Sri Lankan defence and intelligence establishments.
Analysts here fear the alliance could hurt Indian security interests in the long run.
India mainly provides what it calls ‘non-lethal’ military supplies to Sri Lanka.
New Delhi has publicly expressed displeasure over Sri Lanka’s military purchases from Pakistan and China.
Sri Lankan officials argue that they are free to purchase weapons from any country they choses, as India refuses to provide it with lethal weapons. Colombo says it keeps New Delhi informed about what is purchased.
Members of the Indian establishment are concerned that with so much military hardware pouring into Sri Lanka, the war in the island is unlikely to end any time soon. NNI
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008\04\04\story_4-4-2008_pg7_8
The increasing ties between Pakistan & SriLanka are definitely worth mentioning. Jf-17 fighter jets could make use of this niche that Land Forces equipment has carved out in the SriLankan market. On the other hand, further Al-Zarrar tanks would definitely help bolster SriLanka's armor capabilities.
* India concerned over Pak-Lanka ties
NEW DELHI: Sri Lanka has ordered emergency military supplies from Pakistan in a bid to tackle resistance from Tamil Tiger fighters, the IRNA news agency on Thursday quoted official sources as saying in New Delhi.
In a development noted with some concern by the Indian establishment, the Sri Lanka Army has sought 150,000 rounds of 60mm mortar ammunition and as many hand grenades for immediate delivery, IANS reported here.
Sri Lanka has also requested $25 million worth of 81 mm, 120 mm and 130 mm mortar ammunition to be delivered within a month.
Sri Lankan army chief General Sarath Fonseka spent six days in Pakistan last month and conveyed the requirements to his Pakistani counterpart, General Ashraf Pervez Kayani.
The Pakistani military has agreed to supply the ammunition on an emergency basis from its War Wastage Reserve, maintained at several army depots.
The SOS comes amid escalating fighting in Sri Lanka where the military is desperately trying to gain control of northern territory held by the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE).
Resistance from LTTE has pushed Sri Lanka to turn to Pakistan, to make up ammunition stocks, the Indian sources claimed.
Military ties: Sri Lanka started buying arms and ammunition from Pakistan from 1999.
The total purchases up to December 2007 were worth $50 million.
There has been a sharp increase in the quantity of merchandise ordered this year.
Pakistan’s main military supplies to Sri Lanka include mortar ammunition, radio sets, hand grenades, naval ammunition and tanks.
The military links between Islamabad and Colombo worry New Delhi because it allows Pakistan access to Sri Lankan defence and intelligence establishments.
Analysts here fear the alliance could hurt Indian security interests in the long run.
India mainly provides what it calls ‘non-lethal’ military supplies to Sri Lanka.
New Delhi has publicly expressed displeasure over Sri Lanka’s military purchases from Pakistan and China.
Sri Lankan officials argue that they are free to purchase weapons from any country they choses, as India refuses to provide it with lethal weapons. Colombo says it keeps New Delhi informed about what is purchased.
Members of the Indian establishment are concerned that with so much military hardware pouring into Sri Lanka, the war in the island is unlikely to end any time soon. NNI
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008\04\04\story_4-4-2008_pg7_8
The increasing ties between Pakistan & SriLanka are definitely worth mentioning. Jf-17 fighter jets could make use of this niche that Land Forces equipment has carved out in the SriLankan market. On the other hand, further Al-Zarrar tanks would definitely help bolster SriLanka's armor capabilities.
mysterious
New Member
Army Gets Latest Weapons from POF
WAH CANTONMENT: The Pakistan Army on Saturday received the first batch of new 155-millimetre Base Bleed (BB) Dual Purpose Improvised Conventional Munitions (DPICM) Ammunition from the Pakistan Ordnance Factory (POF).
POF Board Chairman Lieutenant General Syed Sabahat Hussain handed over the ammunition to Chief of Army Staff Gen Ashfaq Pervez Kayani at a ceremony. The DPICM is a state-of-the-art ammunition that the POF has produced through a joint venture with Korean firm M/S POONGSAN. APP
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008\04\13\story_13-4-2008_pg7_23
Hmm, is anyone able to elaborate more on this DPICM ammo for the army's armored units? And how it primarily enhances the effectiveness of Pakistan Army's equipment on the field?
WAH CANTONMENT: The Pakistan Army on Saturday received the first batch of new 155-millimetre Base Bleed (BB) Dual Purpose Improvised Conventional Munitions (DPICM) Ammunition from the Pakistan Ordnance Factory (POF).
POF Board Chairman Lieutenant General Syed Sabahat Hussain handed over the ammunition to Chief of Army Staff Gen Ashfaq Pervez Kayani at a ceremony. The DPICM is a state-of-the-art ammunition that the POF has produced through a joint venture with Korean firm M/S POONGSAN. APP
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008\04\13\story_13-4-2008_pg7_23
Hmm, is anyone able to elaborate more on this DPICM ammo for the army's armored units? And how it primarily enhances the effectiveness of Pakistan Army's equipment on the field?
DefConGuru
New Member
Small Arms
Does anyone know the status of the 500,000 new assault rifles Pakistan Army was intent on getting, I know the FN 2000 is being used by special forces and that HK offered it to Pakistan with ToT if it decides to procure many many of them.
Does anyone know anything about the status of PK-7 and PK-8 ? The PK-7 seems to be a modified MP5 that shoots 7.62 rounds. The PK-8 seems like a modified HK33. I know that 50 were produced for testing but I can't find any new information, this all seems like it started last year.
Biggest question is if we will switch to 5.56 NATO. I personally think having 7.62 platform for regular infantry and 5.56 or new rounds such as 6.8 for special forces is the best approach.
Does anyone know the status of the 500,000 new assault rifles Pakistan Army was intent on getting, I know the FN 2000 is being used by special forces and that HK offered it to Pakistan with ToT if it decides to procure many many of them.
Does anyone know anything about the status of PK-7 and PK-8 ? The PK-7 seems to be a modified MP5 that shoots 7.62 rounds. The PK-8 seems like a modified HK33. I know that 50 were produced for testing but I can't find any new information, this all seems like it started last year.
Biggest question is if we will switch to 5.56 NATO. I personally think having 7.62 platform for regular infantry and 5.56 or new rounds such as 6.8 for special forces is the best approach.
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DefConGuru
New Member
pics - the pk-8 is being held, pk-7 on display in front.
other picture is Special Services Wing with FN2000
other picture is Special Services Wing with FN2000
Bush gave clearance for attacks inside Pakistani soil. We hear our general and government officals saying Pakistan will not allow foreign troops to operate inside Pakistan,but foreign troops special US troop keep on viloating Pakistani border.
http://www.geo.tv/9-11-2008/24591.htm
http://www.geo.tv/9-11-2008/24656.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7611287.stm
What should be the responce of Pakistan's army? There first duty is to serve and protect Pakistani citizen and Pakistan's border but it seems they forgot there duty and are to busy fighting a war that has no end. Pakistani citizens are being killed by American bombing and all we hear is same bullshit again and again from Pakistani's generals. WHY?
http://www.geo.tv/9-11-2008/24591.htm
http://www.geo.tv/9-11-2008/24656.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7611287.stm
What should be the responce of Pakistan's army? There first duty is to serve and protect Pakistani citizen and Pakistan's border but it seems they forgot there duty and are to busy fighting a war that has no end. Pakistani citizens are being killed by American bombing and all we hear is same bullshit again and again from Pakistani's generals. WHY?
DefConGuru
New Member
How can the US attack Pakistan without NATO, or without leaving Iraq and starting a draft? They only have around 30,000 troops in the area, if they attack they will be decimated and forced to leave the entire region. Pakistan has close to 600,000 active troops, even if 200,000 are diverted to fight the US at the border it will be too much for them. The US is making a giant mistake. I hope the politicians can stay out of this, as they have all exhibited being useless many times before, and let the army deal with this.
In regards to the role of the PA, they can easily take the war into neighboring Afghanistan without even fighting in Pakistan and since Afghans nor Pashtuns really care about the legitimacy of the border, let's annex Afghanistan while we're at it. We deserve new territory after what happened in 1971 IMO.
Stryker001
Banned Member
The matter of General Musharraf's fate was discussed at some length with the General and the Pakistani Military in 2007. So that only a brief period of instability would occur after he was force to resign.
When his fate was know, the basic scenario breaks down like this, it is not a plan it is just look at what was going to occur in the future, so it is not a conspiracy to depose the democratic elected Government.
But one always will have a counter in place.
If you want a conspiracy theory it was to kick off when the New York Yankees stadium closed and the Australian Cricket tour that in 2007 was decided would not occur in 2008.
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/index.jsp?c_id=nyy
I don' believe there will be any conflict between NATO or coalition forces and the Pakistani Army. The CIA target killings are still acceptable practice and not consider to breach the ROE between the US and Pakistan. The cross boarder raids ordered by the President are out of frustration, NATO and Australia have to accept some responsibility for that frustration, not just the Pakistani Army.
Now the Pakistani Army and the ISI will continue to kill al-Qaida and Taliban and the attacks as seen at the Marriott will continue. Martial Law will be imposed and the Government will fall. Then for stability of the country the Pakistani Army will launch a coup. With the Chief of the Army Ashfaq Parvez Kayani taking control.
It is clear that the vehicle was waved on from the Parliament; the Pakistani Military would have know that the next target would have been the Marriott.
The message is that the next Chief of the Army that takes over the Government, will not be treated in the same manner General Musharraf was treated. It also means that there will be no charges against General Musharraf and he can stay and live in Pakistan. Later on he will return to politics in some form if he chooses too.
So I would serious reconsider interfering into domestic Pakistani affairs, because if you step on people toes, there will be repercussions.
The Pakistani Army offensive against the Taliban and al-Qaida will continue, after the Government falls and the coup takes place. The problem is not the ISI or the Pakistani Army or General Musharraf, it is that countries will not increase troops numbers in Afghanistan.
Its all good in regards to relations between the Pakistani Military and the US.
When his fate was know, the basic scenario breaks down like this, it is not a plan it is just look at what was going to occur in the future, so it is not a conspiracy to depose the democratic elected Government.
But one always will have a counter in place.
If you want a conspiracy theory it was to kick off when the New York Yankees stadium closed and the Australian Cricket tour that in 2007 was decided would not occur in 2008.
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/index.jsp?c_id=nyy
I don' believe there will be any conflict between NATO or coalition forces and the Pakistani Army. The CIA target killings are still acceptable practice and not consider to breach the ROE between the US and Pakistan. The cross boarder raids ordered by the President are out of frustration, NATO and Australia have to accept some responsibility for that frustration, not just the Pakistani Army.
Now the Pakistani Army and the ISI will continue to kill al-Qaida and Taliban and the attacks as seen at the Marriott will continue. Martial Law will be imposed and the Government will fall. Then for stability of the country the Pakistani Army will launch a coup. With the Chief of the Army Ashfaq Parvez Kayani taking control.
It is clear that the vehicle was waved on from the Parliament; the Pakistani Military would have know that the next target would have been the Marriott.
The message is that the next Chief of the Army that takes over the Government, will not be treated in the same manner General Musharraf was treated. It also means that there will be no charges against General Musharraf and he can stay and live in Pakistan. Later on he will return to politics in some form if he chooses too.
So I would serious reconsider interfering into domestic Pakistani affairs, because if you step on people toes, there will be repercussions.
The Pakistani Army offensive against the Taliban and al-Qaida will continue, after the Government falls and the coup takes place. The problem is not the ISI or the Pakistani Army or General Musharraf, it is that countries will not increase troops numbers in Afghanistan.
Its all good in regards to relations between the Pakistani Military and the US.
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Stryker001
Banned Member
Now the Pakistani Army have killed a lot more than 700 militants also one must included the civilians the number is well into the thousands. The body count is very high.
Closing the Madrassas does not work so the ISI can get suicide bombers to start blowing them and they will become unsafe. One was targeted last week.
I mean the boarder can be mined, but they will just dig them up and use them as IED’s.
Pakistan will drive them over the boarder to Afghanistan. So suggest instead of wanting to go into Pakistan, get more troops on your side of the boarder, because the next fighting season will be very heavy.
If Pakistan stops the CIA targeted killings inside Pakistan's badlands then, you will have serious problems, unless the Pakistani's are given UAV's with hellfire missiles, and I can't see that happening at the moment.
Now all those nations that wish to send military and police into Pakistan, be warned regardless if the Pakistani President ok's it, you are not under the protection of the ISI, so your people may be kidnapped by the enemy.
Closing the Madrassas does not work so the ISI can get suicide bombers to start blowing them and they will become unsafe. One was targeted last week.
I mean the boarder can be mined, but they will just dig them up and use them as IED’s.
Pakistan will drive them over the boarder to Afghanistan. So suggest instead of wanting to go into Pakistan, get more troops on your side of the boarder, because the next fighting season will be very heavy.
If Pakistan stops the CIA targeted killings inside Pakistan's badlands then, you will have serious problems, unless the Pakistani's are given UAV's with hellfire missiles, and I can't see that happening at the moment.
Now all those nations that wish to send military and police into Pakistan, be warned regardless if the Pakistani President ok's it, you are not under the protection of the ISI, so your people may be kidnapped by the enemy.
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http://www.geo.tv/9-28-2008/25842.htm
1 billion dollar Upgrades for army helo's and aircraft.
News article posting without poster's own comments is not allowed. Next time post would be deleted.
-SABRE
1 billion dollar Upgrades for army helo's and aircraft.
News article posting without poster's own comments is not allowed. Next time post would be deleted.
-SABRE
Last edited by a moderator: