Irish Defence Forces

[prolatarian]

Just wondering what impression members of other armies have of the Irish DF.

 

[Todjaeger]

Just wondering what impression members of other armies have of the Irish DF.

Out of curiousity, what is YOUR impression of the Irish Army/Defence Force? Or are there specific areas/capabilities that you are curious about or would like information on? Such a vague and open-ended question does not lend itself to meaningful answers.

-Cheers

 

[Sea Toby]

I am sure your small armed forces have a sound reputation as far as personnel. However, outside of a few UN peacekeeping missions, our forces don't exercise with your forces. There are no brownie points earned by not being a member of NATO.

As I research a bit, the Irish air force is lacking an air combat force. No fighters, no large transport planes, and no large ASW patrol planes. Yes, there are some helicopters and smaller aircraft for transport and patrol.

The Irish navy is pretty much a coast guard. No frigates, no tankers, no landing ships, and no support ships. I am sure your OPVs are wonderful. Frankly, there isn't much to offer NATO in either the air force or navy. None of the OPVs have much of any anti-air or anti-missile and/or anti-submarine capability.

The Irish army does have infantry battalions, up to a brigade size. At the moment you could fly your army to a peacekeeping mission. However, the bulk of its supplies have no other choice but to hire either cargo aircraft or hire a merchant ship to move the supplies outside Ireland.

I see that Ireland is interested in acquiring possibly two MEKO 200MRVs in an attempt to help with the supply problem. Unfortunately, Ireland is looking at ships that don't have a vehicle deck, the MEKO 200MRV only has an enlarged helicopter deck as a cargo deck and it appears to lack ro-ro capability. You will need a port with cranes, so no landing operation is feasible.

Thus, my conclusion considering the state of the Irish armed forces is not going to be favorable. While your defenses may be adequate for Ireland, its only useful in Ireland at the moment, or for small UN peacekeeping deployments.

In my view the only thing keeping the Irish free and independent is your neighbors. Luckily, none of your neighboring nations wish to annex you.

 

[Chino]

Sounds like a very small force in its infancy.

If I'm not wrong, Ireland is in a location not deemed to be at risk from foreign invaders, since any such undertaking will be viewed as a threat also to Britain.

Given such a scenario, will the Irish military still be ambitious about its size and capabilities? Or will it be another "New Zealand"?

(No offence intended to the Kiwis, in fact high praise for their combat spirit. Just referring to the nation's decision to downsize its military.)

Many countries smaller and poorer than Ireland but with pressing security concerns have of necessity built huge militaries. Somehow I don't think Ireland is one. Its problem may still be more internal security focused?

 

[prolatarian]

Sounds like a very small force in its infancy.

Or will it be another "New Zealand"

There are about 8500 in the army/small air force and navy.I was intrested in your openions of the abilities of the Irish soldiers thet you may have met overseas.As for New Zealand,We seem to be in a reverse arms race with them as in seeing who can get rid of their army first.

 

[Chiloe]

We've a small but well-equipped army. I'm proud of the fact that we are neutral.

Were fudged though if we are ever invaded! It's very bad in comparison to other armies. Only a few thousand soldiers and few (barely sufficient) tanks, planes, etc.

 

[Investigator]

Comments deleted.

 

[Chino]

There are about 8500 in the army/small air force and navy.I was intrested in your openions of the abilities of the Irish soldiers thet you may have met overseas.As for New Zealand,We seem to be in a reverse arms race with them as in seeing who can get rid of their army first.

I have not met any Irish soldiers. But based on their reputation while serving in British regiments in WW2 etc, the reputation of Irishmen soldiers is rock solid.

Understandably, most polititcians will not see the need of having a big expensive military in the situation of Ireland and NZ.

However, in Singapore, a country the size of a pea, we had a different take on military.

Compulsory conscription into the military became a part of so-called "nation-building" by throwing people of different race and religions into the same units and forcing them to work together.

Does that sound like it might work for a young nation like Ireland?

 

[swerve]

...However, in Singapore, a country the size of a pea, we had a different take on military.

Compulsory conscription into the military became a part of so-called "nation-building" by throwing people of different race and religions into the same units and forcing them to work together.

Does that sound like it might work for a young nation like Ireland?

I'm afraid your prescription is not relevant to Ireland.

Conscription is not politically possible in Ireland. Any government that tried to impose it would fail, & be out of office.

Ireland is not a "young country": it is a very old country, with a long history & a long-established sense of national identity, despite usually lacking political unity. Traditional histories list High Kings back to 3000 years ago, & although most of those were legendary, historical records of them begin over 1500 years ago.

Ireland was until very recently conspicuous for its ethnic homogeneity, & that is changing now only as a result of immigration. The religious divide between Catholics & Protestants is not severe in the Republic, as it is in Northern Ireland.

 

[Chino]

Ireland is not a "young country": it is a very old country, with a long history & a long-established sense of national identity, despite usually lacking political unity.

Thanks for the info.

I mistakenly thought that there is now some kind of "greater" Ireland nation where everyone is trying to work things out as one people.

 

[prolatarian]

Thanks for the info.

I mistakenly thought that there is now some kind of "greater" Ireland nation where everyone is trying to work things out as one people.

No still north and south.Maybe some day though.As far as conscripstion is concernd Swerve is right.One of the main reasons the IRA got enough popular support to defeat Britain was that all through WW1 the British gov threathned to introduce concription.

 

[merocaine]

Ireland is not a "young country": it is a very old country, with a long history & a long-established sense of national identity, despite usually lacking political unity. Traditional histories list High Kings back to 3000 years ago, & although most of those were legendary, historical records of them begin over 1500 years ago.

True, but it has only existed as a modern nation state since 1921. Is that young in nation state terms? if thats the case then germany and Italy arent much older..

 

[LazerLordz]

Am curious here, does Ireland have any current treaties with the UK for defence cooperation?

 

[Izzy1]

Just out of interest,

1. Can I ask? How long will Scorpians last?

2. I was surprised to note the Rangers wear UK-style DPM (at least during training) (on their wiki page). Is this normal?

3. Could/should the IDF be integrated into NATO. I've had the pleasure a while back to work with the IDF on a one-to-one basis and they were second to none.

 

[merocaine]

3. Could/should the IDF be integrated into NATO. I've had the pleasure a while back to work with the IDF on a one-to-one basis and they were second to none.

No chance, Ireland is officially nuetrell, and theres no inclanation to join NATO, if it did'ent happen during the cold war it is'ent going to happen now.
The are part (a small part) of the Nordic EU battle group though.

2. I was surprised to note the Rangers wear UK-style DPM (at least during training) (on their wiki page). Is this normal?

I think so, but only the ARW, the rest use there own Irish DPM pattern.

1. Can I ask? How long will Scorpians last?

No idea mate.

 

[prolatarian]

The ARW can wear any kind of DPM they want.

How long the scorpions last depends on getting up graded and changed to diesel

 

[Tracer]

This may sound strange to many; the government says that as we are a neutral country we do not do "heavy warfare". What they mean is that as we are not NATO members we do not have any commitments that would require tanks, fighter aircraft etc. This of course is to neutral countries like Sweden and Austria difficult to understand as without defence agreements they have to rely on themselves.

As an independant state there is a certain level of capability we should possess, even if the threat level is low. In the past we could not afford it, today we can but choose to spend our money on other things.

One final point. It is not exactly true to say we are a neutral country. There is much talk of a "tradition of neutrality" but neutrality is not mentioned in the constitution. What the constitution says is that any defence agreement must be ratified by the people in a referendum.

 

[Tasman]

As for New Zealand,We seem to be in a reverse arms race with them as in seeing who can get rid of their army first.

I just love the description of what Ireland and New Zealand are doing as a 'reverse arms race!'

I don't have any real knowledge re the Irish Defence Forces, but during a visit to a town in Ireland about 6 years ago I was amused when an army reserve unit (including its officers) marched during a religious celebration in defiance of a government instruction, issued earlier in the week, that the military were not to participate in religious events. The unit was loudly cheered by the many onlookers. It certainly demonstrated a degree of independent thinking on the part of the soldiers although I always wondered if any of them were ever charged over the incident!

Tas

 

[prolatarian]

I just love the description of what Ireland and New Zealand are doing as a 'reverse arms race!'

I don't have any real knowledge re the Irish Defence Forces, but during a visit to a town in Ireland about 6 years ago I was amused when an army reserve unit (including its officers) marched during a religious celebration in defiance of a government instruction, issued earlier in the week, that the military were not to participate in religious events. The unit was loudly cheered by the many onlookers. It certainly demonstrated a degree of independent thinking on the part of the soldiers although I always wondered if any of them were ever charged over the incident!

Tas

The RDF always march on Paddys day

 

[Chino]

This may sound strange to many; the government says that as we are a neutral country we do not do "heavy warfare". What they mean is that as we are not NATO members we do not have any commitments that would require tanks, fighter aircraft etc.

I take it this means that not being a part of NATO means not being obligated to particiapte in adventures ike Iraq or Afghanistan, thus no need for "heavy warfare"

This of course is to neutral countries like Sweden and Austria difficult to understand as without defence agreements they have to rely on themselves.

Theoretically, to invade NZ or Ireland, enemy would have to mount a Falklands War-scale ops or bigger. Not so with Sweden or Austria.

As an independant state there is a certain level of capability we should possess, even if the threat level is low. In the past we could not afford it, today we can but choose to spend our money on other things.

Curious... So who is the threat?

Is there a reason for building a capability beyond the threat level?

BTW, are you talking about Ireland or New Zealand?