Atilla [TR]
New Member
Well this system will make the stealth on the Turkish F-35 useless!! Ahh whatever I do not believe this because Russia would not give this away to a NATO ally, NATO can copy this and make it even better.
Greece to upgrade its S-300s to S-400s
- Thread starter angelo
- Start date
I meant in range.
As I understand it, Americans have held up spare parts to the Greeks before claiming various reasons like port workers on strike and so on. Aside from the fact that in the field of SAM's the Russian systems are the best money can buy, I think the Greeks buy Russian SAM's because the Russians won't hold up spare parts on them and politically speaking the Russians could care less about what's going on between Turkey and Greece. If anything, they'd back the Greeks becuase the Greeks are ethnic Slavs.Atilla [TR];130470 said:
And the US doesn't need Greece to get its hands on Russian SAM's. IIRC, a while back the US bought the S-300PMU1 from Belarus. The Israelis got an incomplete S-300PMU1 from Croatia to develop a towed decoy system to fool it.
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Really?You will anger our Greek friends by calling them SlavsGreeks are not Slavs , the only thing they have in common with Russians is their religion.
Honest mistake then
. But I always thought that they were Slavs because of their stance on the Kosovo issue.Come on! Greeks are Greeks! Recall the ancient Greece? Spartans, Athineans, Cretans, Korinthians, Arkadians, Macedonians? The birth of Democracy, Science, Mathematics, Medicine, Philosophy etc.Really?
Honest mistake then
: there are different opinions about Kosovo. Not only from Serbs and Russians! Greece has many reasons to argue about Kosovo's final state.
Russian SAMs
I think all SAM systems have flaws or can be beaten just look at Syria or really any war in the last 10/15 years and your see Russian SAMs are beatable. A lot of the ways SAMs are beaten will not be released to the public. Syria has the Thor which is a pretty modern system yet did little I don't think it's a exact science yet.
Everything can be beaten given enouth resources and time. SAM's are not exception here of course. They are just very good at they job - defending ground.
Atilla [TR]
New Member
Actually Greeks are Slavic. Look at there languages.
Sub systems in Flankers
It's a little off topic but was mention in a earlier post I found this article concerning Russia AF may or will use French system on Russian aircraft, a first.
Russian fighters to use Thales Damocles targeting pods
By Vladimir Karnozov
Russia will license-produce the Thales Damocles reconnaissance and target designation pod for its air force strike aircraft, following successful tests of the system with Malaysia's Sukhoi Su-30MKM multirole fighter.
Made late last year, the decision will see Damocles become the first piece of Western equipment approved for integration with Russia's combat aircraft, and the first to be produced locally under an official licence with the system's developer.
Comparative trials involving Damocles and the Ural Optical and Mechanical Plant (UOMZ)-produced Sapsan and Solux targeting pods went in favour of the French design.
UOMZ received production approval from Thales in late 2007 and will now assemble a customised version of the system for the Russian market using locally written software. However, the company will also continue to refine its Sapsan system to pursue future sales to Russia and potential export users.
Full story
http://www.flightglobal.com/article...rs-to-use-thales-damocles-targeting-pods.html
It's a little off topic but was mention in a earlier post I found this article concerning Russia AF may or will use French system on Russian aircraft, a first.
Russian fighters to use Thales Damocles targeting pods
By Vladimir Karnozov
Russia will license-produce the Thales Damocles reconnaissance and target designation pod for its air force strike aircraft, following successful tests of the system with Malaysia's Sukhoi Su-30MKM multirole fighter.
Made late last year, the decision will see Damocles become the first piece of Western equipment approved for integration with Russia's combat aircraft, and the first to be produced locally under an official licence with the system's developer.
Comparative trials involving Damocles and the Ural Optical and Mechanical Plant (UOMZ)-produced Sapsan and Solux targeting pods went in favour of the French design.
UOMZ received production approval from Thales in late 2007 and will now assemble a customised version of the system for the Russian market using locally written software. However, the company will also continue to refine its Sapsan system to pursue future sales to Russia and potential export users.
Full story
http://www.flightglobal.com/article...rs-to-use-thales-damocles-targeting-pods.html
Long needed move. After all, every other country use foreign systems - so Russia better also start use ones. Noone can be best at everything - and Russia is do not even have USSR resources.
Yes I saw that too. I thought it meant that they were going to use them for foreign aircraft sales becuase I couldn't believe that the Russian Air Force was going to use foreign parts on their own planes.
I wonder if Russia got the right to export their own "customized" version of the Damocles pod.:unknown
Damocles targeting pod
The Damocles targeting pod must be good it's rare for most countries to use outside systems but it is done. The US Coast Guard uses French helicopters right I'm sure done. I thought Russia had a "Cold War" law that stated only Russian made products or equipment can be used on Russian aircraft? I wanted to know if this is true or is my friend breaking my chops? Does anybody know, thankshttp://www.defencetalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif
Talking
The Damocles targeting pod must be good it's rare for most countries to use outside systems but it is done. The US Coast Guard uses French helicopters right I'm sure done. I thought Russia had a "Cold War" law that stated only Russian made products or equipment can be used on Russian aircraft? I wanted to know if this is true or is my friend breaking my chops? Does anybody know, thankshttp://www.defencetalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif
Talking
This was true with note aside - only WarPac products or equipment can be used on USSR military equipment. Russian military kinda inhereted that law, but several years ago it was soften to some degree. Looks like russian generals started to realise there will be no USSR comeback (in industrial sence) - so they allowed foreign components from selected suppliers in case-by-case basis.
France look as prime partner here due to obvious reasons.
I know 2 large cases: France TI in russian army, and this pod. There were some smaller, more isolated things also.
Pac-3 has in comparison with S-400 mutch less capable radar, its missiles beside mutch less range can only handle balistic missiles with the range of up to 1000km while Mach 14 40N6 missile of the S-400 system flying 400km in distance and 185km in height can handle balistic missiles with the range of 3500km.
It has other missiles like 9M96M witch incorporates hit-to-kill tehnology... all Russian missiles have superior manervability ... list goes on
Mig-31 is the second most potent fighter in the world for BVR fight right after F-22.
All MIG-31B are now passing throw modernization called Mig-31M2 and are getting mutch advanced radar combination of tehnologies based on zaslon and Irbis tehnologies. It can carry BVR missiles ... 6 300km supermanuravable R-37M and 4 R-77... Its kinematics in air is more amasing than those of the raptor.
It can cruise at Mach 2.35 for 1500km ... witch can not Raptor achive not in speed not in range ... its max speed of Mach 3 is mutch higher than those of the Raptor and its max flying atitude is also higher ... with missiles ranged 300km what do you do .... It can also carry R-33S SARH 215km range ... you wont know its there until it hits you ...
MIG-31 is most potent Russian BVR fighter..interceptor and worlds second...
No matter its hudge RCS no missile has range no atitude no speed to catch it ... I bet Aim-120 ha about 10km range when it comes to MIG-31 in chase and on atitude and no planes gona get so close with 10 BVR missiles and such speed
Grand Danois
Entertainer
Nonetheless, it seems that when legacy Patriots are used as targets (PAAT) they have a much longer range (e.g. 600+ km?). That is when fired in a ballistic trajectory. Is the 400 km range for the S-400 given as the ballistic range?
"Neighbour space" (near space) means somewhere between 25-100km altitude, not 185km.
nope thats not balistic range but its effective range in witch missile has enought power to close in for the kill.
40N6 was at first suposed to have near space atitude but Russians decided they need something to counter THAAD and 40N6 introduction in operational service was delayed for several years because of thiese new requirements. Even now operational regiment of S-400 system near Moscow does not have 40N6 missile in operation and wont have for some time ... at the moment it uses 300 km 48N6DM missile from S-300PMU2 system and operational service for 40N6 is expected at the end of 2008 or 2009 year.
As for S-400 same for THAAD its missiles have performance to shoot down even ICBM its only question of theirs radar being incapable to detect warheads and react promptly for that reason Russia tested S-400M Samodrzecs witch was comprising of S-300PMU2 and S-300V missiles hooked to EW network to recive accurate data on time so missiles can be lounched in time ....system is also being able to recive date form other tactical platforms ... S-400M is only bases for mutch bigger project S-500 witch will make core of Russian national missile defence system.
Grand Danois
Entertainer
400 km should be possible. I have my doubts on the altitude though.
Btw, at 400 km, how does the radar detect jets flying below 7 km?
Such things offcourse depend on terrain witch can influence detection range at such distances greatly so carreful planing is require.400 km should be possible. I have my doubts on the altitude though.
Btw, at 400 km, how does the radar detect jets flying below 7 km?
But generaly Russians have developt 76N6 Clam Shell radar for detection on low atitudes. Can be extended to 40m height.
Mig-31
Can the Mig-31 launch missiles at those high speeds? And are the missiles you mentioned with those 300k ranges even in production yet? Viktor this modernization seems ongoing and not a finished product? Not to bash the Mig-31 but is there funding for this? It's a huge heavy aircraft built on a 30year old design that can be seen on radar from very far distances . Sure it can fly fast and straight but in modern combat this aircraft is dated. Its difficult for missiles to hit a fighter size aircraft from 100 miles away doesn't seem odd that Russia would state such long ranges? Russia would be better served by standardization huge Flankers fleets for this purpose it would save on training, equipment, parts, weapons, kind of the way the US uses there F-16, I realize a Mig-31 and a Viper aren't in the same class I'm just using it as an example. By using Flankers even different models would allow Russia Air Force to get better because a more standard level of training could be used across the board.
Can the Mig-31 launch missiles at those high speeds? And are the missiles you mentioned with those 300k ranges even in production yet? Viktor this modernization seems ongoing and not a finished product? Not to bash the Mig-31 but is there funding for this? It's a huge heavy aircraft built on a 30year old design that can be seen on radar from very far distances . Sure it can fly fast and straight but in modern combat this aircraft is dated. Its difficult for missiles to hit a fighter size aircraft from 100 miles away doesn't seem odd that Russia would state such long ranges? Russia would be better served by standardization huge Flankers fleets for this purpose it would save on training, equipment, parts, weapons, kind of the way the US uses there F-16, I realize a Mig-31 and a Viper aren't in the same class I'm just using it as an example. By using Flankers even different models would allow Russia Air Force to get better because a more standard level of training could be used across the board.
Russia only puts these wonder engines in old Mig-31s, it doesn't seem right to me. Wouldn't Russia use some of the this "high tech" on modern Flankers if some of the numbers you quoted real? Wouldn't have China requested these wonder Mig-31s to go far out and strike US carries or build some of the tech into there Flankers for the same purpose? It would serve Russia better building tech like this into a modern air frame like the Su-34 type and not 30 year old aviation fuel haulers that can only fly fast and straight. High end Flankers have powerful radar's and can carry what 10, 11, or maybe 12 missiles seems like a perfect interceptor to me and can fight and turn if they have too. I think it's old thinking and Russia could do better then maintaining a few regiments of Mig-31s. It's like a big huge boxer throwing a punch I'm going to move out of the way and hit back 99% of the time unless I'm a old B-52.