Australian Army Discussions and Updates

[Cooch]

Monasch (the original spelling before he "anglicised it") was a german jew but he most certainly was an australian through and through....

interestingly enough, the Kiwis best general was of german "stock" - Freyberg.

His parents were Prussian-Jews, but I believe that John Monash himself was born in Melbourne.

Just west of where I live is one of the area populated by the descendants of those Germans who settled in the Barossa valley in SA. Three quarters of the local names in that area are of Germanic origin, and there are plenty of them on the war memorials.

Peter

 

[alexsa]

Anyone seeking insight into the metality of Australian soldiers in WW1 would do well to read "The Desert Column", by Ion Idriess. It is the diary of a private soldier who served with the 5th Light Horse from the time he landed at Gallipoli as a reinforcement, until invalided out - after his third wound - shortly before the capture of Jerusalem.

In my opinion, it is a classic piece for soldier-writing, and I recommend it highly.

Peter

A better reference would be "the Great War" by Les Carlyon (macmillan press). It is a very goop piece of work, Well researched, extensive and well written. it goes beyond the Gallipoli and middle east campaigns (which even in Australian terms was a smallpart of the total) and looks extensively at the western front.

 

[alexsa]

His parents were Prussian-Jews, but I believe that John Monash himself was born in Melbourne.

Just west of where I live is one of the area populated by the descendants of those Germans who settled in the Barossa valley in SA. Three quarters of the local names in that area are of Germanic origin, and there are plenty of them on the war memorials.

Peter

He was born in Melbourne but to Polish immigarnt parents. The War memorial site is a good source of information.

http://www.awm.gov.au/1918/people/genmonash.htm

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

A better reference would be "the Great War" by Les Carlyon (macmillan press). It is a very goop piece of work, Well researched, extensive and well written. it goes beyond the Gallipoli and middle east campaigns (which even in Australian terms was a smallpart of the total) and looks extensively at the western front.

That was an outstanding a moveing read. Fairly tough going but once I was going i couldnt put it down. Every Australian should know the names of Fromelles and Pozieres and it is beyond shamefull that many of us dont, les did a great job of spreading the word. Thourougly recomend it to any patriotic australian ,even if you dont have an interest in military hitory.

 

[the road runner]

The Anzac spirit is always on show,just watch a Bledisloe Cup match or any sporting event between Australia and New Zeland.A Rugby League match with Australia Vs New Zealand,both countrys SMASH eachother,its a battle of Attrition,who will win well we dont know.Even watch both countrys netball squads(womens sport)but even the women have a huge pride once they put on there uniforms.
Both Australia and New Zealand know what its like to loose a huge proportion of our population in war.We do it cause we believe in freedom,not just freedom for us,but for all countrys(dictators suck)When the Anzacs fight together we can seamlessley work together for the cause.
Also there is one Quote from Erwin Rommell

"Give me two Australian divisions and i will conquore the world"

Nice words from our PAST enemy

 

[riksavage]

Gents whilst I admire your patriotism and unflinching admiration for ANZACS, I tend to base my limited understanding of military history on micro rather than macro details and refuse to support ‘my c**k is bigger than your c**k' generalizations about a countries fighting prowess. The ANZACS were and are great soldiers.

I would rather focus on unit/regimental/divisional performance. After all I can sit here and provide endless quotes from German Commanders highlighting a certain unit was the meanest, hardest, fighters on planet, ranging from Obersturmbannfurers Walter Harzers’s (9th SS Panzer Division Commander) comments about street fighting against the Para’s at Arnhem to the German commanders complimentary views of the American defense of Bastogne.

After all, all countries involved in conflict produce both heroes and cowards. Unfortunately some have better authors than others. How many people have heard of the Cretans legendary performance against the Italians and Germans during the fight for Greece in 41 - not many I fear, why becasue no ones written about it!

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

Gents whilst I admire your patriotism and unflinching admiration for ANZACS, I tend to base my limited understanding of military history on micro rather than macro details and refuse to support ‘my c**k is bigger than your c**k' generalizations about a countries fighting prowess. The ANZACS were and are great soldiers.

I would rather focus on unit/regimental/divisional performance. After all I can sit here and provide endless quotes from German Commanders highlighting a certain unit was the meanest, hardest, fighters on planet, ranging from Obersturmbannfurers Walter Harzers’s (9th SS Panzer Division Commander) comments about street fighting against the Para’s at Arnhem to the German commanders complimentary views of the American defense of Bastogne.

After all, all countries involved in conflict produce both heroes and cowards. Unfortunately some have better authors than others. How many people have heard of the Cretans legendary performance against the Italians and Germans during the fight for Greece in 41 - not many I fear, why becasue no ones written about it!

Sure we produced some bad units, the 52nd millitia battalion that was sent into kokoda with the famous 39'th basically disolved before the japanese at brigade hill. However I have yet to read of a major australian or new zealand unit, particulary "professional", that did not performe abvove the average of the army/corps the were in during WW2 or WW1. The 9th div 2AIF was considered by romell to be monties best (i think they maty have been piped by the kiwi's but onlt just), the 6th and 7th div 2AIF both performed exceptionally well in the Mid east and papua & new guinie. The performance of the barely trained under equiped CMF in new guine was allmost mirraculous. WW1 the whole deployed australian AIF performed exceptionally in battles like fromells, bullecourt 1&2, Amiens, passchendale and at a little town called Poziers.

Now this wasnt just a case of individual units performeing on individual battlefields on an individual day. This was a Corps consisting of 6 divisions continually and consitently performing exeptionally well throughout the cource of an entire conflict. That my freind is a macro effect not a micro one. If you have macro results you must look for a macro cause. I know it may be a bit sickening to lesten to a bunch of patriotic Aussies talk about stuff like national charecter, but the fact is that on a macro level there was something that made all of the land units in WW1 and most in WW2 perform so well in such desperate conditions.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Gents whilst I admire your patriotism and unflinching admiration for ANZACS, I tend to base my limited understanding of military history on micro rather than macro details and refuse to support ‘my c**k is bigger than your c**k' generalizations about a countries fighting prowess. The ANZACS were and are great soldiers.

I agree.

To all, can we avoid the rah rah chest thumping as it doesn't add much value to the overall debate.

 

[the road runner]

Lets not forget the French,who in a number of schools to this day teach about the brave Diggers who defended and liberated a number of French towns in WW1,WW2.Towns throughout France who write on placks
"ALWAYS REMEMBER THE AUSTRALIANS !"(France teach more aussie history than we do in our schools )
Well enough of that
OK some Aussie Regiments who kick but

Lets start with the SASR "The meanest Mo4s in the Afgan Valleys," We have been told of there heroism and "MATESHIP," and they fly our flag with pride,
these guys have a nack for finding the enemy and raining LGBs onto the enemy without even beieng seen,they are true Predators.

Then we have 4RAR,our commandoes,who have the taliban licking there wounds,they are supporting the SASR,but they to ruthlessley hunt the enemy down and take the fight to the enemy,Another truley professionel special force.


Now i know we do not have thousands of these soildiers,but they are truely Quality units,like most western Special forces(hats off to all you spec warriors)

well thats my 2 bucks worth(jesus im sounding like Andy Mcnab)

MEEP MEEP

 

[gf0012-aust]

To all, can we avoid the rah rah chest thumping as it doesn't add much value to the overall debate.

Please note - this is a request - as opposed to a polite suggestion.

 

[the road runner]

Sorry Gf i was writing it as you posted your first no chest thumping message sorry once again

Also has 3RAR lost its parrachute capability?someone told me they had!

And a bit of track but can anyone give me any info on courses that offer you a defence analist qualification,im in sydney and am thinking of studying again,and i would like to do a defence analist related course to open my mind?

Any advice would be treasured

Sorry once again gf,and hope i did not ofend anyone

Meep Meep

 

[lobbie111]

I think they are transitioning at the moment to light infantry. AD you may be able to help me with this question, is the Australian Army going to buy Quads or vehicles like the polaris rangers to relieve the loads on infantry?

 

[gf0012-aust]

Sorry Gf i was writing it as you posted your first no chest thumping message sorry once again

------------------------

Sorry once again gf,and hope i did not ofend anyone

Meep Meep

No harm no foul. Its just worthwhile knowing that we make a consious decision to nail these kinds of threads as it will generate a thumping attack across the site - and we've spent a long time knocking that behaviour on the head as it resulted in rapid disintegration into a willy waving event.

 

[Aussie Digger]

I think they are transitioning at the moment to light infantry. AD you may be able to help me with this question, is the Australian Army going to buy Quads or vehicles like the polaris rangers to relieve the loads on infantry?

Only for the Direct Fire Support Weapons platoon, at present though if the "maneuvre support teams" get up and running they will probably get them too.
3RAR has had "quads" for years to help carry heavy weapons and ammo etc.

Army has bought "modifed" versions of these to tow it's Javelin ATGW's around the place in the Light Infantry battalions. Basically the crappy looking tray has been replaced with a flat tray for the launcher/CLU and 4x missiles, stacked appropriately...

http://www.kawasaki.com.au/index.php?category=utilityvehicles&sub_category=9&product=90

 

[old faithful]

Intriguing statement, can you please elaborate with facts, not anecdotal statements, why the Aussies and Kiwi’s were more keener at sticking the bayonet in then say the Canadians, Brits or Gurkha's?

Its a difficult question with many different opinions and answers.
From the moment you join the aust army, the importance of not letting your mates down is drummed into you...really smashed into your psych! no matter what, the biggest crime is indifference, and being "Jack" ,slang for the stongest form of selfishness. to be called a "Jack C--T" is THE biggest insult possible, and you would be a very very lonley digger! In combat, this psych means you are not fighting for the Queen,country,flag,cause or what ever, you are fighting for your mates, and i believe this is the reason that Aussies have been a very effective fighting force throgh out history.

 

[Waylander]

I this very different from other countries?

Many armies all around the world push comradeship to the limit and emphasize on how important it is to look and care for your buddy.

I cannot see why this is an explanation for the Aussies having less problems to stick their bayonet into the enemies stomach.

 

[old faithful]

you are right waylander, our army is probably no different to others.
enough chest thumping, i didnt read those posts from GF and AD untill it was to late.
the quad bikes were very handy to us, particully morter Pl, a small box trailer carries quite a few 81mm bombs, and beats every man adding them to their jump load! Pioneers also had them,medics and i think Q store staff as well.

 

[AGRA]

http://www-cgsc.army.mil/carl/resources/csi/miller/miller.asp

 

[lobbie111]

you are right waylander, our army is probably no different to others.
enough chest thumping, i didnt read those posts from GF and AD untill it was to late.
the quad bikes were very handy to us, particully morter Pl, a small box trailer carries quite a few 81mm bombs, and beats every man adding them to their jump load! Pioneers also had them,medics and i think Q store staff as well.

What's the current structure of the Mortar Platoon atm? And what about procuring some of these by ATV Corp. It includes some declassified (if they were ever classified) combat reports. Has a video which is a must see.

 

[t68]

Hi guys

I walked into the end of a news article about the aussies in the ghan the other night,
Any one know what the deal was about, appears they were in some sort of firefight I think it was on nine only caught the end of it.


Regards
Tom