Greece to upgrade its S-300s to S-400s
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No such screw up in Greece! The Albanian separatists are in Tetovo, not in Macedonia (i.e. Northern Greece) but in FYROM (Former Yougoslavic Rep. of Macedonia). That means a different country
I agree that the decisions were mostly poitical. Greek Prime Minister Karamanlis, was the only western leader that congratulated Putin after his recent elections victory!
But don't forget, when we talk about weapon systems, all the decisions are political. For example every NATO country has mostly American - Western systems, not because they are better but becouse they are Western!
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There are some problems with albanian separtists in Greece. F.e. http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/mar2001/mac-m10.shtmlNo such screw up in Greece! The Albanian separatists are in Tetovo, not in Macedonia (ex. Northern Greece) but in FYROM (Former Yougoslavic Rep. of Macedonia). That means a different country
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No! I live in Greece, in Macedonia. You have been confused because the article (hence the problems as well) is refering to the country north of Greece that is misnamed "Macedonia" but is known as Scopia or FYROM (temporary UN. name). More about the Name issue read here (Hellenic Ministry of Foreign Affairs):
old.mfa.gr/english/foreign_policy/europe_southeastern/balkans/fyrom_name.html
But, isnt Greece concerned with such problem? Or there is absolutely no problems with albanians in Greece?
Another question: Isnt Greece concerned with what happens in Macedonia (foreign one i mean)?
We are concerned about stealing our name,so in case NATO invites them with this name,a veto is a probably response from Greece,that's what is heard in news,and that's what the biggest part of citizens want.I won't say more cause the topic is going to be a political one
We are very concerned but as a problem of a foreign neighbour country. Albanians are the one major destabilization factor in the Region (Turks is the other...). Further analysis is out of the thread's topic I think
Perhaps for replacing Patriot system.
does that mean that the S-400 is more advanced than the patriot ???
i am not talking about range here,just accuracy
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Yes. Allthought hard to prove. But basically S-400 have much more powerfull radar network (there are 2-3 completely different wavelengts radars in each battery), and have ABM capability. S-200/S-300/S-400 line is just unmatched in the West and is order of magnitude better than any counterporary SAM's.
Noone can be best at everything, and particulary USA concentrated in other areas.
The S-400 just entered service a few months ago and the PAC-3 was used in OIF with successful results. The PAC-3 has alot less bugs to work out than the S-400 does. The Russian Air Force is still working out the kinks for the S-400 (which I'm assuming are abundant, considering it just entered service) so that they can begin to export it.
But I think that as far capability goes, the S-400 is a generation ahead of the PAC-3 in most, if not all, aspects.
By the way, the second Russian S-400 regiment should be entering service this year.
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PAC-3 is barery comparable with upgraded S-300PMU/PMU2 - which are basically end 80x - beginning 90x tech. S-400 is just another class - not comparable with PAC-3.
S-400
Can Ii ask why does the S-400 have to more advance the a PAC-3? Russia doesn't even have a operational ASEA radar, nor stealth, most of there tech is a little behind the United States in places how did it leap over the United States in this area? The current Patriot isn't the same Gulf War-I model how could a brand new hardly tested and operational missile system be better the a PAC-3C so soon?
Can Ii ask why does the S-400 have to more advance the a PAC-3? Russia doesn't even have a operational ASEA radar, nor stealth, most of there tech is a little behind the United States in places how did it leap over the United States in this area? The current Patriot isn't the same Gulf War-I model how could a brand new hardly tested and operational missile system be better the a PAC-3C so soon?
Chrom not to be difficult but I think that's big statement you made above and to prove. The US makes good radar's, American radar's on our aircraft and ships are better why wouldn't out SAM's not be the same? Russia can't even produce all the systems on a MKI Flanker how can you say "it's unmatched in the west" I don't get it? Doesn't sound logical to me American and European radar's and tech (England & France ) is rated above Russian in most case how does the S-400 have the best radar? Are there papers written on this, studies made comparing the the two? Are there tech companies comparing these from different countries? Is there something I can read or prove to me nothing compares to an S-400 in the west, and that its better then a modern Patriot? I do agree no SAM shoots down every aircraft, missile or rocket and that there flaws. If you can explain thanks
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Russia can produce absolutely all systems for MKI flanker. May be some systems will be somewhat worse or just unusual for e.g. India - but neverless. As for radar - there are some areas where Russia stillhave state-of-the art electronic second to none - high-freq phase shifters for example.
I think noone will argue here total superiority of S-200/S-300/S-300PMU against counterporary SAM's - both western SAM's capabilities and old S-xx series capabilities are known to enouth degree to judge.
S-400 is much more tricky - it is too new. But open sources suggested superior system too - just becouse it is much more complex, much more powerfull and more all-around system than PAC-3.
The range, the speed of missiles, the ABM ability, the number of targets fired at, the VLS start, mobility, multiple radar systems belonging to S-300/S-400 installation - all this have no equivalent in Patriot. And however you prise EU electronic - they didnt managed to produce anything comparable to even Patriot.
Different priorities, different mindset, different resources spend.
Becouse USA didnt spend 10x as much on development of PAC-3 vs S-300/S-400 as in case of F-22. Current patriot missiles for all we know barery managed to reach S-300PMU level, if that.
3x range is not enouth? ABM ability is not enouth (that alone suggest better radar->missile system)? Higher mobility and abilty to shot ANY direction without moving - not enouth? Higher aquision range (as result of longer ranged missiles) - not enouth?
As for radar technology - yes, russian got a bit behined in fighters AESA. But keep in mind, they was AHEAD in fighters PESA, and were always at least as developed in land-based big AESA radars like new EW radars.
Again, EU fighter (not even tell about other) radars are rated better by who? I mean EF Captor is not even reached 30-years old Mig-31 Zaslon level - it is still mechanical!! New Rafale radar is at most comparable to Su-xx PESA line .... So where are these superior EU radars? On paper? You know, Russia have also great thing on paper....
P.S. It is not the questioin if USA could produce something better than S-300/S-400. Probably yes, could. IF spend 10x times as much money on development and setting different priorities.
The S-400 can engage targets flying as low as 10 meters off the ground, the Patriot engages targets only starting from 60 meters. The mobile variant of the S-400 takes only 5 minutes to deploy and Patriot systems take 1.5 hours. IIRC, The S-400 has range twice that of the PAC-3 and can engage Airborne Early Warning Aircraft, stealth targets and jamming aircraft with it's home-on-jam capability and also has an "over-the-horizon" capability.
[ame="http://youtube.com/watch?v=WXieFUZKk04"]Video[/ame]
This is just compilation of information I already know and learned from this video.
There are plenty of Western websites that all practically say the same thing, that the S-400 capabilities overshadow those of any competing Western system. I'm sure you'll find them if you look for them.
By the way, about the radars of Russian fighters, the Irbis-E is supposed to be the best in the world with the longest detection range.
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S-400
Thanks you it's a very interesting clip and I learned a lot from it looks like a fine SAM system. I'll hold off and wait see the finished product producted fielded and operational.
The radar on the 30 year old Mig-31 might have long detection against bomber size aircraft I'll give you that. The Mig-31 as a weapons platform has lived past it's time there won't be waves of slow moving B-52s flying formations for them to be useful. I wonder how 30 year old radar's hold up in modern combat.
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif
Wink
Thanks you it's a very interesting clip and I learned a lot from it looks like a fine SAM system. I'll hold off and wait see the finished product producted fielded and operational.
The radar on the 30 year old Mig-31 might have long detection against bomber size aircraft I'll give you that. The Mig-31 as a weapons platform has lived past it's time there won't be waves of slow moving B-52s flying formations for them to be useful. I wonder how 30 year old radar's hold up in modern combat.
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif
Wink
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Really, i cant call Irbis "best in the world" - being PESA instead of AESA. Detection range is great - but there are other things to consider here once we starts to talk about the "best".