Japanese Stealth Fighter

[windscorpion]

anyway the Japanese are cutting back the funding on the ATD-X demonstator

http://www.flightglobal.com/article...back-funds-for-atd-x-steath-demonstrator.html

 

[Dr Phobus]

windscorpion

anyway the Japanese are cutting back the funding on the ATD-X demonstator

http://www.flightglobal.com/article...back-funds-for-atd-x-steath-demonstrator.html

Please gentlemen let us all take a moment too thank windscorpion for getting us back on track and with his excellent research too truely show us the political will for the japanese stealthy combat plane is really not there when one considers the short term finanical realities...since they have just cut funding.

Again well done windscorpion.

 

[Atilla [TR]]

I am so confused so Japan built this because after years of trying to get the F-22 and always getting rejected, and the united states is not giving the F-22 out because of the Stealth tech yet they are giving the F-35 out to everyone?

 

[sansei]

I am so confused so Japan built this because after years of trying to get the F-22 and always getting rejected, and the united states is not giving the F-22 out because of the Stealth tech yet they are giving the F-35 out to everyone?

Rule No.1 of defense exports: Unless you have a counter do not sell your weapons to ANYONE.

Basically the F-22 is the world's dominant A2A fighter at the moment and will likely remain so for the next 50 or so years-the US has valid concerns regarding technology bleed to the PRC from us and regrettably so as with the AEGIS leak.

The F-35 is basically the LO "bomb truck" successor to the F-16 and as such was specifically designed for export to fill the shoes of nations looking for a relatively cheap and effective replacement for their ageing F-16 fleets. The F-35 is mostly LO from the front against X-Band radars of OPFOR fighters and mobile AA/MANPADS while at the cost of reduced "stealth" from other angles as opposed to the all-aspect LO of the F-22. While the F-35 shares some commonality with the F-22, it is a vastly inferior aircraft, designed to operate after the F-22 has "kicked down the door" ie. destroyed all fixed AA assets and OPFOR fighters.

 

[Atilla [TR]]

Know know I would not say the F-22 is superior nither will I argue about it, but the F-35 sounds much better for air to air because it has much better manuvibility and thrust but that is all I am saying.

 

[SlyDog]

" sansei: Basically the F-22 is the world's dominant A2A fighter at the moment and will likely remain so for the next 50 or so years -the US has valid concerns regarding technology bleed to the PRC from us and regrettably so as with the AEGIS leak."

For 50 years? C´mon, I know USA are "world leading" in many fields - but i doubt it is in that big extent. Only the fact that computers are so much faster today than for 20 year ago (when the development of F-22 started) would be a factor which make it both faster and easier to perform good simulations in the design process. But it's just my 2 cents :sweden

 

[Salty Dog]

Israel and Japan have been pressing the USA for the F-22. Both have been faithful allies and kept the US defense industry alive during tough times. Both have an urgent requirement for Gen 5 fighters. I see this as a win-win situation. Let's give it to them.

 

[performance]

Israel and Japan have been pressing the USA for the F-22. Both have been faithful allies and kept the US defense industry alive during tough times. Both have an urgent requirement for Gen 5 fighters. I see this as a win-win situation. Let's give it to them.

I dont see any gain in giving Israel f-22's. There budget is relatively small for these expensive aircraft. The current air force is more than adequate to handle any threat in the middle east.

Japan has only been allies for 50 or so years. If being faithful allies is the main criteria there are plenty of better countries to give them to like the Aussies, South Korea, Singapore.

Im sorry but 50 years is not enough to ignore the fact that Japan was Nazi Germany's biggest ally. Not only have they not apologized but they have shrines for the war "heros".

 

[Salty Dog]

I dont see any gain in giving Israel f-22's. There budget is relatively small for these expensive aircraft. The current air force is more than adequate to handle any threat in the middle east.

Israel and Japan currently operate the F-15 and know very well the USA will replace their F-15 fleet with the F-22. Naturally they want the same have have informally discussed acquisition of the F-22. They will be paying customers.

You may not feel that Israel or Japan need the F-22, however both these countries will disagree with you.

 

[Aussie Digger]

Israel and Japan currently operate the F-15 and know very well the USA will replace their F-15 fleet with the F-22. Naturally they want the same have have informally discussed acquisition of the F-22. They will be paying customers.

You may not feel that Israel or Japan need the F-22, however both these countries will disagree with you.

The USAF is not currently planning on replacing it's Strike Eagles with Raptors, only it's air defence F-15A/C model aircraft.

Evolved F-15 variants such as F-15SG will remain extremely capable combat aircraft for many years to come.

Again, need is subjective and makes MANY assumptions...

 

[Salty Dog]

The USAF is not currently planning on replacing it's Strike Eagles with Raptors, only it's air defence F-15A/C model aircraft.

Agreed. The F-22 also replaces the very important F-117 assets which are due to retire in 2008.

 

[swerve]

If what my partner tells me is right, this project should be called FUKUSEI.

 

[qwerty223]

The project is now on hold due to Japanese parliament denied the funding for the prototype.

 

[Gryphon]

3-D Thrust Vectoring with Paddles

The mechanism the Japanese are using to achieve 3-D thrust vectoring is a series of paddles like the 1990's vintage X-31. This has to penalize rear quarter IR stealth and couldn't be as robust as the 2-D nozzles on the F-22.

 

[Atilla [TR]]

It is Sad if Japan got rid of this project they could make up that money back by selling it to countries that want the F-22.

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

The mechanism the Japanese are using to achieve 3-D thrust vectoring is a series of paddles like the 1990's vintage X-31. This has to penalize rear quarter IR stealth and couldn't be as robust as the 2-D nozzles on the F-22.

Thats why i think its just something they're slaping together to pressure the US on the F-22A. Such a system would not be viable in terms of nozle performance or IR supression. It was only used on the X-31 becasue those things were not important, the ARE on a real deal fighter. They're the most basic form of 3D TVC, MiG 29OVT has a more advanced TVC system. They would no boubt use real nozles in their production fighter if it ever came into existance.

As for exports, those who want the F-22A will probably buy F-35A.

 

[F-15 Eagle]

As for exports, those who want the F-22A will probably buy F-35A.

True, altough Gates wants to export the F-22, Congress which supports the law of banning the F-22 for export since 1998 will not alow the F-22 for export. Japan will most likely buy the F-35, which is a very capable replacement for their current fighters.

 

[Gryphon]

Remember the Mitsubishi F-2?

The Japanese want indigenous modern warplane manufacturing capability, as emphasized by their development and production of the Mitsubishi F-2 (F-16 on steroids). Japan builds 60% of the aircraft, including the composite wing, with one more weapons station than anyone else's F-16's have. Production began in 2000 and continues through 2010 for over 100 planes.

Working on this new fighter keeps their design group intact. Also, it puts them in a good bargaining position when negotiating F-22 or F-35 deals ... "We could just keep developing our own F-22sushi".

Why slap those Jurassic paddles on the exhausts though, especially on a exhibition mockup?? OK fine for a dynamic flight development prototype, an actual flight article, until the stealthy models are available. It just doesn't make since.

 

[Yasin20]

Rule No.1 of defense exports: Unless you have a counter do not sell your weapons to ANYONE.

Basically the F-22 is the world's dominant A2A fighter at the moment and will likely remain so for the next 50 or so years-the US has valid concerns regarding technology bleed to the PRC from us and regrettably so as with the AEGIS leak.

The F-35 is basically the LO "bomb truck" successor to the F-16 and as such was specifically designed for export to fill the shoes of nations looking for a relatively cheap and effective replacement for their ageing F-16 fleets. The F-35 is mostly LO from the front against X-Band radars of OPFOR fighters and mobile AA/MANPADS while at the cost of reduced "stealth" from other angles as opposed to the all-aspect LO of the F-22. While the F-35 shares some commonality with the F-22, it is a vastly inferior aircraft, designed to operate after the F-22 has "kicked down the door" ie. destroyed all fixed AA assets and OPFOR fighters.

so let me tell you something what i want to know is that was the F16 was the best jet out of the F18 F14 as well as the F15 at them at that time when there was no F22 or F35's comeing out at that time ?

 

[Izzy1]

so let me tell you something what i want to know is that was the F16 was the best jet out of the F18 F14 as well as the F15 at them at that time when there was no F22 or F35's comeing out at that time ?

Expand please. The F-16 was the best at what exactly? You'll make more sense to us all if you expand on your argument... Hell!!! Maybe we'll even agree.