Australian Army Discussions and Updates

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Geesh you get a few perks mate!:D Involvement with SSk's, personal weapons systems... What do you guys do anyway?
I'm an old fart. I spent over 22 years as a servant of HMAG ;) Then I spent the next 10 in the commercial military sector and now I'm going to go back in as HMAG loyal PS.


Did you see how the 40mm grenade stack was meant to be reloaded???
Yes

Do you have to take the rear part of the barell out and put annother, loaded one in to reload?
I've seen the 36 barrel do a live fire and shred a car to pieces....

If so there has to be some heat issues (i wouldnt want to grab one with bare fingers).
I've never seen it simulate combat conditions. Only proof of concept and trials work. So, its never been sustained fire against an active persistent threat

Also is there much chance of weapons "cooking off" with repeat automatic fireing?
It would depend on lots of things. The more barrels, the less likelihood as you can load balance the firing cycle. As each barrel is a discharge rod, cooking off is highly unlikely anyway as it does a complete evacuation and then is replaced in the firing order

Even if it did heat up to a cook off tipping point there are solutions. Wooki and I would be on to giving them a solution like a flash.... :nutkick
 
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JasO

New Member
Hi guys,
Just wanted to ask for some information. I'm attending my JOES day in late February and I'm applying for Commando and Rifleman (was also applying for Army Pilot don't really count on that happening). I was curious to know what the chances of a civilian getting put through into the Commando unit is? I've been told that you used to have to work your way up, and now that you can get a direct entry you either have to be an exceptional candidate or you have no chance. Either way, I'm confident i'll be able to pass all their fitness tests, the normal one and the commando one, and i would think i would get above the minimum.

Since others have said that Commandos are usually picked from ex police, ex fireman and ex athletes, what should i do to further increase the chance of getting in!?

Thanks for any info guys...looking forward to being part of the team :)
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
Hi guys,
Just wanted to ask for some information. I'm attending my JOES day in late February and I'm applying for Commando and Rifleman (was also applying for Army Pilot don't really count on that happening). I was curious to know what the chances of a civilian getting put through into the Commando unit is? I've been told that you used to have to work your way up, and now that you can get a direct entry you either have to be an exceptional candidate or you have no chance. Either way, I'm confident i'll be able to pass all their fitness tests, the normal one and the commando one, and i would think i would get above the minimum.

Since others have said that Commandos are usually picked from ex police, ex fireman and ex athletes, what should i do to further increase the chance of getting in!?

Thanks for any info guys...looking forward to being part of the team :)
Probably very little chance of getting straight into Commando's.

If I were you'd. I'd go the normal route, sign up as a rifleman, get a solid couple of years infanteering under your belt and then try for Special Forces.

Special Forces Direct Entry scheme is basically defunct now as I understand it...
 

JasO

New Member
Probably very little chance of getting straight into Commando's.

If I were you'd. I'd go the normal route, sign up as a rifleman, get a solid couple of years infanteering under your belt and then try for Special Forces.

Special Forces Direct Entry scheme is basically defunct now as I understand it...
Thanks Assie Digger. I figure doing a couple of years of rifleman can't hurt, and should only improve my chances of getting into commandos. I'll speak to the recruiter on the day and try and figure out what the best route is.

I guess after two years of rifleman, if i can't get into the commandos then, there is no chance i would get in now. So thanks for the advice mate. :)
 

Wooki

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Thanks Assie Digger. I figure doing a couple of years of rifleman can't hurt, and should only improve my chances of getting into commandos. I'll speak to the recruiter on the day and try and figure out what the best route is.

I guess after two years of rifleman, if i can't get into the commandos then, there is no chance i would get in now. So thanks for the advice mate. :)
Oh, I dunno. I have an Aussie friend that did it (No, I don't kno the details), and you know how the saying goes. "If he can anyone can".

Quite an appropriate saying, that.

cheers

w
 

JasO

New Member
Oh, I dunno. I have an Aussie friend that did it (No, I don't kno the details), and you know how the saying goes. "If he can anyone can".

Quite an appropriate saying, that.

cheers

w
Thanks for the encouragement mate, I haven't ruled anything out yet, but I'm not just a little more flexible! I'll aim high and see what i can do :) I'll let you guys know how i do after the JOES day.
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
Oh, I dunno. I have an Aussie friend that did it (No, I don't kno the details), and you know how the saying goes. "If he can anyone can".

Quite an appropriate saying, that.

cheers

w
It's not impossible and persons have certainly joined SOCOMD with no previous military experience whatsoever.

The program as a whole has not been a raging success from all reports and is all but defunct now, from my understanding...
 

Cooch

Active Member
It seems that our new Defence Minister does not believe that our military is sufficiently politically correct. According to an article in "The Age" Joel Fitzgibbon has used his first speech to berate the ADF for not promoting enough women. If he wants to run our military like a corporation, then he might be surprsied to find that he gets similar results.

Mind you, (as I understand it) even in business, when the stats are controlled for marital/family status and the gender-bias in career choices, the supposed "glass ceiling" and wages disparity disappears.

Peter
 

Tasman

Ship Watcher
Verified Defense Pro
It seems that our new Defence Minister does not believe that our military is sufficiently politically correct. According to an article in "The Age" Joel Fitzgibbon has used his first speech to berate the ADF for not promoting enough women. If he wants to run our military like a corporation, then he might be surprsied to find that he gets similar results.

Mind you, (as I understand it) even in business, when the stats are controlled for marital/family status and the gender-bias in career choices, the supposed "glass ceiling" and wages disparity disappears.

Peter
It seems to have escaped the Defmin's attention that women are actually advancing through the ranks pretty well at the present time. The army has just appointed a female major general, the navy now has a female frigate CO (HMAS Perth) and the airforce has a female squadron CO.

Tas
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
It seems that our new Defence Minister does not believe that our military is sufficiently politically correct. According to an article in "The Age" Joel Fitzgibbon has used his first speech to berate the ADF for not promoting enough women. If he wants to run our military like a corporation, then he might be surprsied to find that he gets similar results.

Mind you, (as I understand it) even in business, when the stats are controlled for marital/family status and the gender-bias in career choices, the supposed "glass ceiling" and wages disparity disappears.

Peter
Amazing that there is not a lot of women deployed in infantry and cavalry centric deployments isn't it?

Must be because ADF is a "boys club" eh? Couldn't possibly be any other reason behind it could there?

I'm starting to get nervous about the depth of this Ministers understanding of the things he is talking about...
 

A.Mookerjee

Banned Member
The Australian and New Zealand Infantry in 8th Army.

It is said, that the most prized infantry formations that fought for Field Marshal Montgomery, were from Australia, and New Zealand. Why is this so?
 

icelord

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
I'm lost, the Next division into HMAS Cerberus has 50/50 split of men to women, 80 out of 160 so far, and the latest had 60 out of 160, thats pretty good ratio for the navy really.
Must be the army which is ruining the figures.
 

Ozzy Blizzard

New Member
It is said, that the most prized infantry formations that fought for Field Marshal Montgomery, were from Australia, and New Zealand. Why is this so?
Unit cohesion, national charector and some truely amazing men. If i had one tenth of the intergrity of those who went before us i would be a great human being.

If you want to read an amazeing story out of world war 2, look for the Australian 39th battalion CMF and the battle of the kokoda track. Its kind of our national 'waterloo' or 'trafalgar'.
 

AGRA

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Unit cohesion, national charector and some truely amazing men. If i had one tenth of the intergrity of those who went before us i would be a great human being.

If you want to read an amazeing story out of world war 2, look for the Australian 39th battalion CMF and the battle of the kokoda track. Its kind of our national 'waterloo' or 'trafalgar'.
Sure they are part of it, but not the real cause for why the Australian Divys in WW1 and WW2 were better than other countries.

Aussies are more likely man for man to be willing to kill someone else. The proportion of soldiers from mass conscript based armies actually willing to stick in a bayonet or pull the trigger with some poor sod in front of you is a major consideration in the effectiveness of said army.
 

riksavage

Banned Member
Intriguing statement, can you please elaborate with facts, not anecdotal statements, why the Aussies and Kiwi’s were more keener at sticking the bayonet in then say the Canadians, Brits or Gurkha's?
 

lobbie111

New Member
well another reason to me would be that fact that most people in australia could shoot a rifle more effectivly than anyone else. We also spread out, in Gallipoli it is said that they were trained to stay in close formation but as soon as they were locked in combat they started to fan out so the enemy could not fire on one or two tight packs but a large amount of small groups.

Revenge would be my reason why Aussies can stick a person in another more easily, to see your mate (most if not all Australians were really close friends I like to believe that is still the case) get killed in front of you would enrage a man more than usual, having a bigger resentment of the enemy makes it psychologically easier than if you were just soldiers.

btw I am not saying that other nations units did not bond really well, just Australia did it consitently.
 

Cooch

Active Member
riksavage....

Your question is a little difficult to answer, at least in the way that you phrase it. How can we reply with "fact" when the men involved are almost all dead, their motivation can only be inferred, and any such assesment must be qualitative, rather than quantitative.

The best "facts" that we can give you are at best oblique.

To first clarify.
Some *say* that the average ANZAC (I know, familiar misuse of a specific WW1 acronym) were amongst the best , if not the best, of the allied troops in two world wars on the basis of performance, and the assesment of both commanders and their enemy.

In WW1
On the Western Front, they were the most consistently reliable troops (by nationality, other individual unoits were as good). Per capita, they captured a disproportionately large percentage of both enemy territory and personnel. They were involved in a number of key actions that had the potential to alter the balance of the front decidedly in the enemy's favour, and performed above expectation. They developed the tactics that broke the stalemate of trench warfare and lead to the eventual German surrender. They were also the only national group which were automatically labelled as "shock troops" by the German staff whenever they were identified in the front lines. Incidentally, the Australian tropops did not consider themselves better than the rest. They thought very highly of both Scots and Canadians (and thought that the Yanks didn't do too badly once they learnt how to fight.;) ).
In Palestine, Allenby is held to have stated that his campaign - which is held to be the precursor to "Blitzkreig" tactics, would have been impossible without his Australian and New Zealand mounted troops.

In WW2, the predominantly Australian garrison of Tobruk were the first western troops to demonstrate that both Blitzkreig tactics and Rommel's generalship could be defeated. In Syria, they defeated the French Foreign Legion and they were also the first western troops to defeat the Japanese on land in the Pacific theatre.

As to why their record was so good........ The following may help explain.

(1) Unit cohesion. While there are exceptions, the records of the times show an exceptional degree of commitment to their fellow diggers. A very high proprotion of them considered that to permit their mates to go into battle without being there personally to support them was an act of betrayal. To hold back meant that someone else had to take a greater risk. To leave your wounded behind was almost as bad.

(2) An emphasis on personal initiative, intelligence and the delegation of decision-making as far down the chain of command as was reasonably possible.. Monash wrote pithily on the supposed ill-discipline of Australian troops, noting that their discipline was not of the mindless kind, but that of the team player who puts the combined effort before his personal freedom. When bored or considering themselves disregarded, they had tendency to play up. But the same troops who displayed a willingness to toss Cairo into the Nile, conducted themselves brilliantly when taken to France. They were "interested".

(3) Attitude. While not considering themselves "the best", many of them held the attitude that anyone who wanted to prove themselves better would have to work very hard to do so. The belief that the war could not be won without fighting, so they may as well get started. Being taken lightly, annoyed them.

..... It would be foolish of me to say that any of these attributes were (or are) unique to "Azacs". Of course they are not.
There are other units that are just as willing to fight. (The Gurkhas are an obvious example). Similarly there are other units with high levels of self-belief, or unit cohesion.

What seems less common is to have these things in combination, and to the same degree.

I'll also agree that we've been lucky in at least some of our leaders, including some non-Australians. Monash. Allenby. Morshead. Montgomery.

About all that I can come up with at the moment...

Peter
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
I'll also agree that we've been lucky in at least some of our leaders, including some non-Australians. Monash. Allenby. Morshead. Montgomery.

About all that I can come up with at the moment...

Peter
Monasch (the original spelling before he "anglicised it") was a german jew but he most certainly was an australian through and through....

interestingly enough, the Kiwis best general was (also) of german "stock" - Freyberg.
 

lobbie111

New Member
you must not forget however, that i believe to be correct that Australia also lost more men % wise than any other country. But really if you think about it is one of the most famous probably THE most famous example of how peer pressure is effective
 

Cooch

Active Member
Anyone seeking insight into the metality of Australian soldiers in WW1 would do well to read "The Desert Column", by Ion Idriess. It is the diary of a private soldier who served with the 5th Light Horse from the time he landed at Gallipoli as a reinforcement, until invalided out - after his third wound - shortly before the capture of Jerusalem.

In my opinion, it is a classic piece for soldier-writing, and I recommend it highly.

Peter
 
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