RMAF Future; need opinions

A

aztechx

New Member
so lets list down the pros and cons of the Su-30s and the F/A-18E/F..ive always been a fan of the flankers and my view might be slightly biased..but after reading all the post here..im actually confused..so wud be glad if u guys can help me out with the hornets part..

personally i still think the MkMs hold an edge over the superhornets..why?its always the same reason..the russians are flexible..no policy of not selling weapons to certain countries for political reasons etc..and i just dont like the idea of being under the 'orders' of the states..

btw,isnt it unfair to compare the Su-30s with toyotas?:p:
the hornets/superhornets are good,no doubt,but i dont think the difference in capabilities with the flankers are that far apart..and saying so,of course opting for the cheaper but equally good plane would be the better choice for the RMAF right?

but at the same time,i dont want the RMAFs hornet to be sold as they are still operating well and considered very new..but since the days where the lack of cover for the MiGs weaknesses are long gone..(night capabilities,naval strike)..the need for another batch of hornets would be unnecessary..

just my 2 cents

and yea..F-16s do have arrestor hooks as well.. :)
 
D

Ding

Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #642
aztechx said:
so lets list down the pros and cons of the Su-30s and the F/A-18E/F..ive always been a fan of the flankers and my view might be slightly biased..but after reading all the post here..im actually confused..so wud be glad if u guys can help me out with the hornets part..

personally i still think the MkMs hold an edge over the superhornets..why?its always the same reason..the russians are flexible..no policy of not selling weapons to certain countries for political reasons etc..and i just dont like the idea of being under the 'orders' of the states..

btw,isnt it unfair to compare the Su-30s with toyotas?:p:
the hornets/superhornets are good,no doubt,but i dont think the difference in capabilities with the flankers are that far apart..and saying so,of course opting for the cheaper but equally good plane would be the better choice for the RMAF right?

but at the same time,i dont want the RMAFs hornet to be sold as they are still operating well and considered very new..but since the days where the lack of cover for the MiGs weaknesses are long gone..(night capabilities,naval strike)..the need for another batch of hornets would be unnecessary..

just my 2 cents

and yea..F-16s do have arrestor hooks as well.. :)
Click to expand...
I'm a fan of flankers too. Yes you are right, it would be unnecessary to have another batch of hornets, since the flankers are here. Why buy another a/c which has less capability than the flankers. However, the main question here is whether the next MRCA sqn should be filled with flankers or Super Hornets. Super Hornets are not the upgrade of the hornets, they are practically a new aircraft with much much better capability. Superficially they resemble the "old" hornets, but really it doesnt go beyond that.

I think i have stated in my back postings that if the SH comes with a good weapons and maintenance deal, then why not? Sure, they'll be more expensive, but at least you do have higher MTBO on the major parts/components. That means better availability rates. In any case, since we have the Flankers just for a short while, we dont know whether they are easier to maintain and what not. So many variables that we dont know about. So yeah, I'm a fan of both, which ever makes it for the second MRCA sqn i'll be happy.

Maybe persons with more knowledge will be able to discuss this issue better and put facts and analysis on the table. We do have to understand that being a member of NAM the armed forces always try to balance between western and eastern bloc armament. Look at our inventory now....
 
C

caksz

New Member
SH should be consider if the deal is good , if it's half a deal (down grade version and no adavance weapons package) ... bleh , more MKM no questions ask ... just money or more barter trade (palm oil ) :p
 
M

Mr Ignorant

New Member
Ding,

The only aircraft in our inventory capable of using those missiles are the F/A 18s, to which I surmised was useless owing to it's future role as a display team. Lain kali jangan terkeliru apa yang ditulis. Terimakanlah nasihat yang munasabah ini dari saya.

btw,isnt it unfair to compare the Su-30s with toyotas?
the hornets/superhornets are good,no doubt,but i dont think the difference in capabilities with the flankers are that far apart..and saying so,of course opting for the cheaper but equally good plane would be the better choice for the RMAF right?

And please feel free to correct me when I am IGNORANT otherwise, make up your mind. It's either the SU 30 MKM or F/A 18E/F in your order of preference. If you're a fan of the SU 30 MKM, then why spin a yarn about the Super Hornet???? Otherwise, if you're happy with another squadron of MKMs and you can say for sure that these aircraft ARE inferior to the Super Hornet, then I too would like to read your original research here. Thanks


Mr Ignorant
 
Last edited:
M

Mr Ignorant

New Member
aztechx said:
so lets list down the pros and cons of the Su-30s and the F/A-18E/F..ive always been a fan of the flankers and my view might be slightly biased..but after reading all the post here..im actually confused..so wud be glad if u guys can help me out with the hornets part..

personally i still think the MkMs hold an edge over the superhornets..why?its always the same reason..the russians are flexible..no policy of not selling weapons to certain countries for political reasons etc..and i just dont like the idea of being under the 'orders' of the states..

btw,isnt it unfair to compare the Su-30s with toyotas?:p:
the hornets/superhornets are good,no doubt,but i dont think the difference in capabilities with the flankers are that far apart..and saying so,of course opting for the cheaper but equally good plane would be the better choice for the RMAF right?

but at the same time,i dont want the RMAFs hornet to be sold as they are still operating well and considered very new..but since the days where the lack of cover for the MiGs weaknesses are long gone..(night capabilities,naval strike)..the need for another batch of hornets would be unnecessary..

just my 2 cents

and yea..F-16s do have arrestor hooks as well.. :)
Click to expand...
We should get arrestor hooks for our Proton Perdanas too, it looks good as well :eek:nfloorl:
 
M

Mr Ignorant

New Member
aztechx said:
so lets list down the pros and cons of the Su-30s and the F/A-18E/F..ive always been a fan of the flankers and my view might be slightly biased..but after reading all the post here..im actually confused..so wud be glad if u guys can help me out with the hornets part..

personally i still think the MkMs hold an edge over the superhornets..why?its always the same reason..the russians are flexible..no policy of not selling weapons to certain countries for political reasons etc..and i just dont like the idea of being under the 'orders' of the states..

btw,isnt it unfair to compare the Su-30s with toyotas?:p:
the hornets/superhornets are good,no doubt,but i dont think the difference in capabilities with the flankers are that far apart..and saying so,of course opting for the cheaper but equally good plane would be the better choice for the RMAF right?

but at the same time,i dont want the RMAFs hornet to be sold as they are still operating well and considered very new..but since the days where the lack of cover for the MiGs weaknesses are long gone..(night capabilities,naval strike)..the need for another batch of hornets would be unnecessary..

just my 2 cents

and yea..F-16s do have arrestor hooks as well.. :)
Click to expand...
I want the RMAF Hornets to be moved to the RMN and station these Aircraft in Sabah. Hornets for the Navy, now that would look good on paper. Then we can discuss buying Superhornets for the RMN, if ever that surfaces again.
 
Last edited:
A

aztechx

New Member
Mr Ignorant said:
We should get arrestor hooks for our Proton Perdanas too, it looks good as well :eek:nfloorl:
Click to expand...
to do what?catch potholes on the roads??that would be catostrophic.. :D

Mr Ignorant said:
I want the RMAF Hornets to be moved to the RMN and station these Aircraft in Sabah. Hornets for the Navy, now that would look good on paper. Then we can discuss buying Superhornets for the RMN, if ever that surfaces again.
Click to expand...
i like your idea about moving the hornets to the RMN but i would prefer the 'ship people' to take care of the ships while the airforce maintain their job since we have such a small number of aircrafts..the hornets are capable of air to air combat as well and i think,in time of crisis..dividing the airforce in such a way would only make things more complicated..unless we get a new batch of MRCA be it the flankers or the superhornet,(prefer the flankers :nutkick ) then i think its better that the current hornets stay with the airforce..

Ding said:
I'm a fan of flankers too. Yes you are right, it would be unnecessary to have another batch of hornets, since the flankers are here. Why buy another a/c which has less capability than the flankers. However, the main question here is whether the next MRCA sqn should be filled with flankers or Super Hornets. Super Hornets are not the upgrade of the hornets, they are practically a new aircraft with much much better capability. Superficially they resemble the "old" hornets, but really it doesnt go beyond that.

I think i have stated in my back postings that if the SH comes with a good weapons and maintenance deal, then why not? Sure, they'll be more expensive, but at least you do have higher MTBO on the major parts/components. That means better availability rates. In any case, since we have the Flankers just for a short while, we dont know whether they are easier to maintain and what not. So many variables that we dont know about. So yeah, I'm a fan of both, which ever makes it for the second MRCA sqn i'll be happy.

Maybe persons with more knowledge will be able to discuss this issue better and put facts and analysis on the table. We do have to understand that being a member of NAM the armed forces always try to balance between western and eastern bloc armament. Look at our inventory now....
Click to expand...
i actually meant a new batch of superhornets would be unnecessary..my bad..about the superhornets,even if we get a good weapons package deal,you never know when the states might just pull that back..im just no longer confident in deals made with the americans after the weapons issues of the hornets..on the russian side,they want the money and will sell no matter what,unless we decide to wage war on them of course which u and i know is highly unlikely..

u have an interesting point in the balance between western and eastern block arnament..ive never actually thought those things could affect our choice of armament..but dont you think its time we stop trying to please everyone?the 8 hornets should be 'pleasing' enough to anyone who needs pleasing..

just my 2 cents.. :)
 
D

Ding

Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #650
Mr Ignorant said:
Ding,

The only aircraft in our inventory capable of using those missiles are the F/A 18s, to which I surmised was useless owing to it's future role as a display team. Lain kali jangan terkeliru apa yang ditulis. Terimakanlah nasihat yang munasabah ini dari saya.

btw,isnt it unfair to compare the Su-30s with toyotas?
the hornets/superhornets are good,no doubt,but i dont think the difference in capabilities with the flankers are that far apart..and saying so,of course opting for the cheaper but equally good plane would be the better choice for the RMAF right?

And please feel free to correct me when I am IGNORANT otherwise, make up your mind. It's either the SU 30 MKM or F/A 18E/F in your order of preference. If you're a fan of the SU 30 MKM, then why spin a yarn about the Super Hornet???? Otherwise, if you're happy with another squadron of MKMs and you can say for sure that these aircraft ARE inferior to the Super Hornet, then I too would like to read your original research here. Thanks


Mr Ignorant
Click to expand...
Mr I, I think I would like to put an end to this nonsense. I am very well sure that I'm no expert, and I would receive kindly to corrections and new info from forumers that know better. I am also entitled to my opinion and also understand that others have their own opinion too.

HOWEVER, I do not take kindly to a forumer (that's you) that takes my word out of context (as per a lot of your previous post) nor do I accept you accusing me of saying something I have not. I have never said that the Su30MKMs are inferior to the Super Hornets. I have stated numerous times that I prefer both in RMAF due to the complimentary abilities and role.If you want to continue discussion about the pros and cons of my preference above, by all means let's do it. Other than that, STOP!

Now I'll put down a challenge for you. Please quote me on my replies where I have mentioned:
1. The Sooks are inferior to the SHornets.
2. My "yarn spinning" as you put it as per the SHornets.

As I mentioned many times, my argument with you is regarding the STANDARD HORNET Ds, which you say is a "pig poor as machine to maintain" and destined to be in the "display team". I've challenged you to back that statement up many times, still you have continued going off on tangent stating that I prefer SHornets and/or fighting a case for the SHornets which I have never did in our many exchanges during our discussions.

I usually don't reply this harshly, but I'm making an exception to this case seeing that I have been accused of something that I have not done. It's one thing mocking me about my alleged "allegiance" to the SHornets, it's another thing making a mockery my intelligence. That offends me. So please stop your condescending attitude and shut up because you are getting to be a big embarrassment to this Country.

So unless you rise to the occasion and reply my challenges above or continuing the discussion on our future plans for the RMAF, consider yourself IGNORED (by me, that is).
 
M

Mr Ignorant

New Member
Ding,

Your spinning another long yarn. Much of this discussion is already closed, in case you haven't noticed.

Another thing, please re-read the title of your own post. That is, I am assuming you're practicing what you're preaching here????

And apparently my questions are meant to mock you??? How so??? You keep on stating your preferences, and then you claim by analogy that the SU 30 is like a glorified Toyota???

I think you're confused. I haven't begun mocking you yet. Don't bother replying for your own sake. For me, there is nothing further to discuss.

I look forward to you ignoring me. Thanks again.
 
Last edited:
M

Mr Ignorant

New Member
Malaysia may buy more Su-30 fighters from Russia
14:32 | 12/ 12/ 2007

Print version

MOSCOW, December 12 (RIA Novosti) - Malaysia may soon order a new batch of Russian-made Su-30MKM combat aircraft to equip an additional fighter squadron, a Russian source at the recent LIMA-2007 air show said Wednesday.

The Southeast Asian country has already received six out of 18 Su-30MKM fighters under a $900-million contract signed in 2003. The remaining 12 aircraft will be delivered in two shipments by the end of 2008.

"The Malaysian Royal Air Force is considering a new contract on the purchase of Russian Su-30MKM fighters," the source said.

The Su-30MKM is a multi-role Flanker variant based on the Su-30MKI model and features a customized avionics suite to meet Malaysian specifications.

The aircraft are being manufactured at Sukhoi's Irkutsk aircraft manufacturing plant in Siberia.

Malaysia currently operates a mixed fighter fleet, with the Russian MiG-29N Fulcrum, and the U.S.-made F/A-18D Hornet and F-5 Tiger.

Any feedback for the above, welcome.
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
Mr Ignorant said:
Malaysia may buy more Su-30 fighters from Russia
14:32 | 12/ 12/ 2007

Print version

MOSCOW, December 12 (RIA Novosti) - Malaysia may soon order a new batch of Russian-made Su-30MKM combat aircraft to equip an additional fighter squadron, a Russian source at the recent LIMA-2007 air show said Wednesday.

The Southeast Asian country has already received six out of 18 Su-30MKM fighters under a $900-million contract signed in 2003. The remaining 12 aircraft will be delivered in two shipments by the end of 2008.

"The Malaysian Royal Air Force is considering a new contract on the purchase of Russian Su-30MKM fighters," the source said.

The Su-30MKM is a multi-role Flanker variant based on the Su-30MKI model and features a customized avionics suite to meet Malaysian specifications.

The aircraft are being manufactured at Sukhoi's Irkutsk aircraft manufacturing plant in Siberia.

Malaysia currently operates a mixed fighter fleet, with the Russian MiG-29N Fulcrum, and the U.S.-made F/A-18D Hornet and F-5 Tiger.

Any feedback for the above, welcome.
Click to expand...
They'd make an excellent replacement for Malaysia's MiG-29's... :eek:nfloorl:
 
T

Tebuan

New Member
annual flight hours of RMAF pilots

Can anyone shed some light as to how many how hours of flight time front line pilots in RMAF usually accumulate annually. Is it anywhere close to 180 hours that typical NATO/USAF pilots are required to maintain?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top