Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

[Aussie Digger]

That hack doesn't have much of a command of the English language, let alone defence matters.

Does he not understand what the phrase, "the majority of the funds have been obligated" means?

It means the money HAS been spent. How then could the delays in the $1.4b upgrade affect Navy's future budget?

A curious figure that $1.4b number too. It's about $500m higher than ANAO stated has been spent on the program, IIRC...

 

[AGRA]

Wouldn't the extra cost of building the AWD's locally be offset by the employment of Aussies rather than building them in Spain?

This difference is huge. And its not just about employment but taxation and in house purchasing.

Basically the cost to the national economy of buying three AWDs from Spain or even the USA (where they would be much cheaper) is 4-6 billion in cash with all of it going onto the national account deficit, ie overseas. By spending 7 billion on an Australian build about 3-4 billion will go overseas and of the remainder about 500-1,000 million will end up back in Government coffers thanks to GST and income tax... Of the remaining ~3 billion spent in Australia this will go into Australian bank accounts, be spent on Australian products from 30,000 tonnes of steel to 750 mattresses and so on. Plus the sustainment cost of the ship through its lifetime will be much greater without having the domestic construction capability to call on. This is further offset by Government spend on welfare and other benefits, assuming a percentage of the 2,000-3,000 jobs created would result in unemployed or underemployed people if they weren't created and so on.

The DoD actually adds these figures up in the business case they provide to government between domestic and overseas spend. In the case of AWDs the comparison was made between buying three DDG51s from the USN’s production lines and overall cost of ownership (up until they are sunk underwater for dive sites). Even in this case the net cash outlay by the Government was less for the domestic build of AWDs compared to FMS acquisition. That is of course without putting a cost to the growth in national industrial capacity and the benefit from providing national employment.

 

[octopus7]

These media types just don't seem to get it do they I was always under the impression that Australia being an enormous island needed to have a powerful and well equipped navy to protect it's waters. Yet the media moans every time defense spending is mentioned and especially the cost of any new vessels such as the AWD's or LHD's. And we have all born witness to the frenzy they have whipped themselves into over things such as the Collins class subs, Sea sprite choppers and the FFG upgrade project. Maybe i'm being stupid but why moan over the cost of the navy? I bet the same people wouldn't be having a whinge if Australia was being threatened by terrorists etc and the navy was out there doing their job. I agree with Icerlord it's enough to make your blood boil when you think about how dumb the media are.

BTW went to defense recruiting today and got my application to join as an AWA submariner started. Should be going for a JOES day within 3 weeks. MC Taff your hints and advice for recruit interviews will prove priceless mate

 

[Sea Toby]

The news media and the press learn very quickly to scare their watchers and readers, to stimulate the importance of their stories. First off, they question the need of a capability, then the price and choice of the equipment, and finally report any difficulties. This is from any spending by the government, from health care to education, to the fire and police departments, and down to a city's janitorial contracts. They are paid to be suspicious. They love to sell newspapers.

I live in a small town, and the local media is making a big mountain out of a little molehill about a new bypass. Do we need the bypass, where it will be located, who is going to earn a dollar from the new bypass, which company is going to build the new bypass, and what the new bypass will cost. You get tired of reading about the accidents in the city, that the bypass will pass through the mayor's property, the builder will be a local company owned by a city councilman, and that the bypass bid was too high. All we want is a new bypass.....

But all of this news sells newpapers. The truth is that someone is going to make money selling the land, building the road, and there will probably be some graft in the process. Its much a do about nothing.

With defense contracts you learn one of your politicians own stock, one of your officers work for the company, the old equipment can carry on another year, and that the bid was too high. Nevermind the stories the year before claiming the equipment is too expensive to operate and maintain.

 

[riksavage]

I hear BAE has purchased TENIX, making it Australias number one supplier. Interesting to see what the former will bring to the table for the DDG project.

 

[AGRA]

I hear BAE has purchased TENIX, making it Australias number one supplier. Interesting to see what the former will bring to the table for the DDG project.

No the're not and nothing.

The new BAES Australia + Tenix will be Australia's biggest defence company with the largest turnover. But not the biggest supplier. Much of their work comes from doing through life support, not building or vendoring new kit.

Since neither BAES Australia or Tenix have any actual invovlment in the AWD program, beyond any minor subcontracting they can pick up it will have SUM ZERO impact on this project.

 

[StingrayOZ]

I don't know where I was reading it, but there was a very interesting story on how they were going to build the LHD's.

The main part of the hull would be built in spain, then then shipped to Australia on a super lift ship.

Queensland would build the bow or the aft I can't remember (bow I think) and these would then meet up at garden island in sydney I think with something else being built in S.A..

Then it would all be launched at garden island and I think then floated to S.A for the rest of the fitout.

Jesus it sounded complicated, it was a bit old so it will be interesting to see if they go that way. I was under the impression that they would build everything in spain and just a simple fitout in Australia of our systems.

 

[barra]

I don't know where I was reading it, but there was a very interesting story on how they were going to build the LHD's.

The main part of the hull would be built in spain, then then shipped to Australia on a super lift ship.

Queensland would build the bow or the aft I can't remember (bow I think) and these would then meet up at garden island in sydney I think with something else being built in S.A..

Then it would all be launched at garden island and I think then floated to S.A for the rest of the fitout.

Jesus it sounded complicated, it was a bit old so it will be interesting to see if they go that way. I was under the impression that they would build everything in spain and just a simple fitout in Australia of our systems.

I thought it was the French ship that was going to use Garden Island in Sydney if selected?

AFAIK the hull will be built in Spain and fitout done in SA. Apparently our skilled workforce can't handle the volume of work for this project as well as AWD.

 

[StingrayOZ]

Actually your right.. I fused the two plans in my head..

http://www.adbr.com.au/download/Features Articles/V26N4-5_Sea4000a.pdf

Tenix’s preferred build strategy will see LHD hulls almost completed in Spain before being ship-lifted by heavy float-on/float-off vessel to its Williamstown shipyard in Victoria (L), and pictured transporting the massive US X-band ballistic missile defence radar. LHD superstructure would then be added in Australia, in the same manner as was done in the Netherlands for HMNZS ‘Canterbury’ (centre-L) prior to full ship integration work commencing. Thales Australia proposes to build the relatively simple aft ‘super block’ of its two LHDs in Brisbane (centre-R), before bringing it together with a foreign-built forward ‘super block’ at the Garden Island graving dock in Sydney (R)

I think tenix is less risky and faster. Hopefully they sign off on atleast 4 AWD and 3 LHD's, and anyway you carve that, it will be a whole lot of work for Australian ship yards (and spanish ones).

Australia doesn't really have to build the 28,000t hull for the LHD here, we never built aircraft carriers here, and in that market, korea/spain would have it all over us. The superstructure and fit out is still huge work proberly worth more than 2/3rds of the entire project.

 

[AGRA]

This is also how we are building the new 'Vung Tau Ferry' the Henderson AMC's ship transporter and launcher. The hull of this submergable barge will be built by an Australian owned yard in Vietnam (Vung Tau) and then shiped to Henderson, WA for the sides and integration work.

 

[Pusser01]

Well, a sad but proud day here in the West as the old girl Adelaide has flown the White Ensign for the final time. She has had a good run and provided many memories and served her country with a distinction. It will be a little bit sad to see her sail for FBE from Stirling on Tuesday, but then again I am looking forward to my first shore posting for over four years,
Cheers

 

[icelord]

Its Tenix in Melbourne that will be doing the work according to the plans. ASC is building the AWD in SA.

Sorry to see Adelaide go, Kalak has fond memories onboard, and some not so fond, but tells us that the FFG is the best Surface Combatant to post to, don't know how you would choose Base over one, but hey i'm pumping for my sea posting in August when CATs done

 

[Pusser01]

Sorry to see Adelaide go, Kalak has fond memories onboard, and some not so fond, but tells us that the FFG is the best Surface Combatant to post to, don't know how you would choose Base over one, but hey i'm pumping for my sea posting in August when CATs done

Don't get me wrong, I thoroughly enjoy my time at sea. It's just that I am looking forward to spending sometime at home with the family, working normal hours and going home at night and over the weekend. Last year we spent approx 7 months away from home and we didn't even go the Gulf. Over the last 8 years I will have spent over 6 of them posted to a ship.
I am sure after a period to re-charge my batteries I will be chafing at the bit to get back to sea.
Cheers

 

[mug]

Completely off topic - is anyone familiar with the ADF/RAN's Graduate Medical Scheme?

Alternatively, does anyone know a good contact in regards to Lateral Recruiting enquiries?

Cheers muchly.

 

[Aussie Digger]

Completely off topic - is anyone familiar with the ADF/RAN's Graduate Medical Scheme?

Alternatively, does anyone know a good contact in regards to Lateral Recruiting enquiries?

Cheers muchly.

SCMA...

 

[mug]

SCMA...

SCMA?

 

[Aussie Digger]

SCMA?

Soldier Career Management Agency. I guess you are not in ADF then eh?

 

[sunderer]

AD, I am in the ADF and had no idea what that one was.

 

[Aussie Digger]

AD, I am in the ADF and had no idea what that one was.

It's pronounced "schema". Does that help out all?

 

[sunderer]

I am RAAF so the whole soldier thing didnt add up.