Ozzy Blizzard
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Beutifull shot. Thanx Tas.
Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates
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Thanks Ozzy. I'll try to get some close ups in the port and from my boat on Regatta Day (as long as the weather is OK :shudder ). This one (along with some higher res photos currently awaiting approval in the DT Pictures Section) was taken from my house on the Howrah Hills several km away, so it lacks a bit of detail. The Harpoon cannisters (2 on each launcher) can be clearly seen, however.Beutifull shot. Thanx Tas.
Tas
Now you are showing off, what a view.
Ozzy Blizzard
New Member
What a beutifull spot to live! Your a lucky man tas, I wish i had such a view. I allways wondered how you were on top of every RAN visit to hobart, the only time i know somethings come into melbourne is if i see it as i go over the bridge, al you have to do is look out the front door! I thought tou taswgans were just more popular with the RAN!?!
You have to love the look of the ANZAC's, "every bit a modern frigate" as the navy leuge would say.
HMAS Collins joins Parramatta in Hobart for Navy Week
HMAS Collins joined HMAS Parramatta in Hobart for the Royal Hobart Regatta and Navy Week. I spent an interesting time aboard Parramatta today but unfortunately Collins was not open for inspection.
Photos of Collins and Parramatta have been posted to the DT Pictures section and will be available when approved and there are also some on my Blog:
http://tasmansblog.blogspot.com/
Tas
HMAS Collins joined HMAS Parramatta in Hobart for the Royal Hobart Regatta and Navy Week. I spent an interesting time aboard Parramatta today but unfortunately Collins was not open for inspection.
Photos of Collins and Parramatta have been posted to the DT Pictures section and will be available when approved and there are also some on my Blog:
http://tasmansblog.blogspot.com/
Tas
The navy must have heard about this comment.Geez Tas, its Navy week and the RAAF has a bigger presence
723 squadron has despatched three Squirrel helos to Hobart (to join the A-109) and two of them gave a spectacular performance over the waterfront area yesterday. The local newspaper never reports more than half of what is happening so I think I'll check out the airport today and see if anything else has arrived. Tas
Whoops - The RAAF have also sent three Hawk 127s to Hobart, making a total of eight RAAF aircraft! Still, I think a frigate, a submarine and 4 helos is more than a match for the airforce presence.
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diggumsbang
Member
does any one know of any proposed expansion of HMAS stirling? possibly extension/renovation of existing wharves?
the number of USN ships visiting Western Australia has diminished dramatically over the past 2-3 years, especially in Fremantle. there have been small articles in the west australian though saying that there has been USN SSGN's and SSBN's at stirling... what would they be doing there? is there possibly some rearming that occurs there?
the number of USN ships visiting Western Australia has diminished dramatically over the past 2-3 years, especially in Fremantle. there have been small articles in the west australian though saying that there has been USN SSGN's and SSBN's at stirling... what would they be doing there? is there possibly some rearming that occurs there?
there's been some recent training exercises going on at the sub training area.
SSN's, not SSGN's
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From what i've heard they are redoing alot of the Accomadation blocks, and gyms training facilities. Most ADF bases received a grant about 2 year ago for upgrades to facilities so that moneys being worked in now.
And the USN is always at Fleet Base East or West for training as GF said.
Well, didn't all those damn aircraft make things difficult for the School Of Air Warfare students at RAAF Base East Sale! (Students in Kingairs doing circuits at 170-130 kts do not like nonchalantly sedate Caribous and Squirrels, and those rather brisk Hornets and C-17's invading their airspace - tends to set them on edge and make their eyes bulge.)The navy must have heard about this comment.
Tas
Whoops - The RAAF have also sent three Hawk 127s to Hobart, making a total of eight RAAF aircraft! Still, I think a frigate, a submarine and 4 helos is more than a match for the airforce presence.
diggumsbang
Member
has anyone heard anymore 'chit chat' in the industry about plans for a fourth AWD? could all these debates and reviews currently underway regarding the supposed 'strike capability gap' that will occur when the F-111 is retired lead the Government to 'strongly entertain' the idea of having TLAM's onboard the AWD? and even possibly the new generation of collins class submarines?
if they are to be designed and built within australia, i have no doubt that it will be a quality product hopefully with a 'land attack' capability incorporated.
if they are to be designed and built within australia, i have no doubt that it will be a quality product hopefully with a 'land attack' capability incorporated.
I wouldn't expect anything to happen re a 4th AWD before the new Defence White Paper (see press release below) has been delivered. It seems to me that the government seems to be having enough trouble with existing procurement and modernisation contracts (e.g. Seasprite, FFGUP, Super Hornet, etc), which need to be sorted out ASAP, and the preparation of the White Paper will give it some breathing space before any new proposals for major acquisitions are considered.
http://www.minister.defence.gov.au/Fitzgibbontpl.cfm?CurrentId=7444
The option for equipping the AWDs and/or next generation submarines with TLAMs is also unlikely to be considered prior to the White Paper, IMO. Personally I would love to see the submarines equipped in this way. I'm not sure about the AWDs as the main call for their 48 VLS cells is likely to be air defence. The option, however, is at least worthy of consideration.
Tas
TLAMS are a nice option, and it adds a good capability. I'd love to see it happen.
However I doubt it would go ahead on the current Collins; the current budgetary climate is starting to look thin. The next series of submarines is a likely platform; it would be figured into the budget from the get-go rather than being one of those nasty 'additions or upgrades' that are a bugbear of defence spending at the moment.
At election time, (if you hold much truck in the media) the Labor overtures were that they were committed to a fourth Hobart, but not a peep since.
Our primary focus in the Navy right now, as Tas pointed out, is SeaSprite and FFGUP. Seasprite is, right now, one of the biggest headaches as we have airframes that are currently sitting in a hangar doing very little. Once this is sorted out (with the associated fanfare of who made this debacle happen in the first place from the political side, which will drag things out), then it is one further money sink we can wash our hands of. It won't be pretty, but it'll free the budget up from such close scrutiny.
However I doubt it would go ahead on the current Collins; the current budgetary climate is starting to look thin. The next series of submarines is a likely platform; it would be figured into the budget from the get-go rather than being one of those nasty 'additions or upgrades' that are a bugbear of defence spending at the moment.
At election time, (if you hold much truck in the media) the Labor overtures were that they were committed to a fourth Hobart, but not a peep since.
Our primary focus in the Navy right now, as Tas pointed out, is SeaSprite and FFGUP. Seasprite is, right now, one of the biggest headaches as we have airframes that are currently sitting in a hangar doing very little. Once this is sorted out (with the associated fanfare of who made this debacle happen in the first place from the political side, which will drag things out), then it is one further money sink we can wash our hands of. It won't be pretty, but it'll free the budget up from such close scrutiny.
I think this is a good thing. The Howard folks went a bit overboard and bought everything for every role, as opposed to developing a strategy for spending.
Those seasprites are a good example, someone needed to grow a pair long ago and cancel that contract. The fighter purchase is very similar, I never understood why Australia wanted the F-35A instead of the F-35B if they are buying LHDs, and it never made sense to me that given the option for the F-22A, Australia wouldn't go for it given its range advantages over alternatives.
None of the aircraft decisions in particular struck me as a strategic approach to defense purchasing.
RubiconNZ
The Wanderer
I think the F-35B though it will surely be a most capable aircraft would be a very hard sell, if you think of the large contention over the Amphibs imagine the uproar over "Carriers". It will be interesting to see if Australia gets slapped down over the F-22's now that the Def Min has committed to requesting a change of law from Congress. It will certainly be something I think
On a side note, (as there is no suitable thread) I just like to say thanks for the excellent coverage of the US 193 shoot down, real spot on writing and uber informative. Cheers Galhran.
Rob
Australia has never had the option for the F-22. The US government may have no objection in principle to selling, but Congress has made it impossible. Change the law, & the option would exist. But it doesn't now.
dp from prev comments I've made: I apologise for merging this together from other comments, but I'm sick to death of retyping!
I'd be betting that the answer given to Smith about unavailability resulted in a quiet exhale... it covers their butts at a number of levels.
Don't get me wrong, I don't object to the plane in RAAF roundels, I just happen to think that the quality of debate has been dumbed down to a pimply faced 15 yo boys level of enthusiasm. A fed govt that is looking at thinning expenditure (even though Defence has been embargoed) will not want to invite a secondary logistics burden into forward estimates for the next 35 years. On top of the fact that there is a spectacular failure on the part of the "clown club"/"conflict of interest clubs" to competently articulate why they are so necessary to our military well being.
The JSF has a better upgrade path etc and it fulfills our core requirements. There is a reason why we ran away from the Mirage 111OA and Mirage 111OF mentality.
Smith will be counting his blessings at being publicly offered the get out of gaol card....
On top of which I would add, the problem in australia is that the gee whiz brigade are unable to look at this outside of the "its sexy, its the best, and we have to have it"
this is way beyond a simple military retail event.... the complexity of what else is involved has swept straight past the broadsheet press and baskervillian lobby set....
and as I've prev said, this is a political gordian knot for the US. If Oz gets a bite then they immediately have their other 2 major allies of interest jumping up and down (Japan and Sth Korea). Either one of those becomes a nightmare as well.
The US is then placed in the position of releasing the platform not just to Oz, but then to 2 other significant allies of importance (as they can't do one or the other in case they pi$$ either one off) Sth Korea and Japan are closer to Taiwan developments than Aust will be.
They then face the issue of getting production levels up for 3 allies ahead of potential extended orders for USAF. It then becomes a "who's on first?" scenario.
Again, I would suggest that if anyone thinks that this is easy then they start to add up the sequences.
As for future guessing against a US change of Govt. What Smith needs to understand is that Obey is a Democrat - with substantial influence (hence why the Amendment got legs in the first place). A change of US Govt won't make it any more likely. Our best chance if we were ever to try and influence was under the Republicans, and yet they were handcuffed via Congress through Obey.
We already had Ashmore (R) get a job change when he suggested at the DPC in 2004 that the US would look favourably on an Australian request where need was compelling. In political terms he was kicked up the freckle as he had a job change soon after. In addition, where is the compelling need?
Thats why I get brassed off with these dances around the May Pole debates about the F-22. Its far more complex than just a sale to Australia. It becomes a geo-political issue immediately for the US. Its a Catch 22 as well, there are some in Congress who are vehemently opposed to the US selling off any Tier one battle changer like the F-22 when they have done all the hard investment and development yards. Selling it from the car yard to foreign buyers is seen as offensive to the US taxpayer. (Aegis as a contrarian example is 30 years old, and if you really stretch it out is legacied from 45 years ago, so its not exactly jewel in the crown in comparison).
We need to move beyond dumbed down debate where we think that we have the right to buy it just because we're good mates etc....
Governments, local politics, international politics etc... are far more complex. What is a simple military retail event for Oz is actually a political gordian knot for the US.
My sense of it is that Smith has been given a face saving exercise to engage in.
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