Is Ahmadinejad At GCC summit looking for a face-saving solution?

Grand Danois

Entertainer
What do you mean "to some extent allowed in Iran"? You make it seem like there is a law in Iran banning being not anti-Semitic.
What I mean with that? That I have seen examples of that softer views do appear in the mainstream media in Iran, so that the views of Ahmedinejad doesn't necessarily represent the people of Iran. Beyond that it is something you read into it. ;)

As to my use of "to some extent allowed", this is what I was referring to: Informal social control.

So I'm saying they may have their views, but they're not lunatics, just like you do:

Also, the Iranian people are not exactly in love with the idea of Israel. I think the vast majority would rather have Palestine. They just don't see the point of involving themselves in such a dangerous situation such as this (Israel, Lebanon/Hezbollah, Iraq and the nuke program) especially since even the Arab states don't seem to care.
 

Awang se

New Member
Verified Defense Pro
Iranians eat in plates with forks and all. I think you were talking about Gulf Arabs but even they rarely do that.
LOL, i don't mean it like that :hehe . i'm not talking about Iranian eating habit. what i meant is how a different culture achieved the same end with a different method or something like that. you can't judge a different culture using your culture standard. you're not suppose to impose your value on other culture, you're suppose to live along with it and learn from it.
 

Incognito129

Banned Member
There is no "smoking gun" as the terminology is these days. Economically, the benfits from nuclear energy is marginal (if not outright detrimental) to the Iranian economy. Plus the history the IAEA has with monitoring doesn't give pause.

Now, my view/perception is that certain factions seek nukes or would like to give the impression that this is what is being sought, plenty of ambiguity in the rethoric. And this is just not a good thing, with the implications of that in mind.

Generally I think that these discussions on Iran lack the depth of what is going on in Iran plus how behaviour changes over time. For instance Ahmedinejad has moderated his rethoric significantly, the people of Iran are not fanatically anti-Jewish and this viewpoint is to some extent allowed in Iran. Iranian support for Shiite insurgents has gone down the past months. All this reflects on power struggles inside the Iranian elites where only elements seek confrontation. Support to Hezbollah is also something that is used internally to buy off political factions.

So the mainstream monolithic view on Iran should perhaps be taken with a grain of salt.

With that in mind and because I think Iran is quite far away from nuclear weapons, no, I don't think Iran should be attacked - because that is also a bad idea.

That's not because I suffer from moral indignation over everything the US (or the West) does, but because it is a bad idea in terms of strategic outcome.

Yeah, call me cynic.
The benefits from nuclear energy are not marginal.

There was no proof of Iran being in Iraq.
 

Stryker001

Banned Member
[FONT=&quot]If it was no[/FONT][FONT=&quot]t[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]محمود[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]احمدینژا[FONT=&quot] it would another like him, he is only the spokesman for the Mullahs in Tehran. There is evidence that Iran is sponsoring terror inside Iraq and other countries directly or via proxies. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]That is why the current debate in relation to nuclear non-proliferation is ill relevant, the evidence and the reasons for a strike on Iran is already there due to their involvement in state sponsored terrorism. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The last intelligence report changes nothing.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
 
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Grand Danois

Entertainer
The benefits from nuclear energy are not marginal.

There was no proof of Iran being in Iraq.
Nuclear energy. They are, if you sit on top of so much natural gas. Then (in the Iranian model of subsidies) you'll have export more gas to pay for the same electricity, than if you just used the gas on making the electricity. Nuclear energy is not free , nor cheap. And if gas is cheaper, then you actually deplete your reserves faster than if just using the gas yourself. And with oil it gets ludicrous...

Iraq. Since it is widely accepted that Iran has a hand in the Shiite insurgency, I think you should clear things up as to why you think Iran is not taking part in the situation i Iraq.
 
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Stryker001

Banned Member
[FONT=&quot]There is a direct connection from [/FONT]السيد[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]مقتدى[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]الصدر [FONT=&quot]and Iranian intelligence and there is a direct connection between the media releases supposedly from Bin Laden all leading directly to [/FONT]محمود[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]احمدی*نژا.

[FONT=&quot]Barium meals have proven this fact.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
 

Awang se

New Member
Verified Defense Pro
[FONT=&quot]If it was no[/FONT][FONT=&quot]t[/FONT]محموداحمدینژا[FONT=&quot] it would another like him, he is only the spokesman for the Mullahs in Tehran. There is evidence that Iran is sponsoring terror inside Iraq and other countries directly or via proxies. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]That is why the current debate in relation to nuclear non-proliferation is ill relevant, the evidence and the reasons for a strike on Iran is already there due to their involvement in state sponsored terrorism. [/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]The last intelligence report changes nothing.
[/FONT]
There's evidence? where is it? American so called "evidence" have been so far remain a claim nothing more. nothing solid have ever been presented to the UN or any international organization. there's reason to believe the so called evidence are non-existence in the first place. sure, they say Iranian shaped charge was found in Iraq, but the report also ignored the existence of many local manufacturing workshops that produce the shaped charges and many other weapons use by the insurgents. the number of shaped charge that's coming from Iran are miniscule compared to the one made locally. and how do you know the iranian one are supplied by the Iranian government? it may be an unlawful smuggling ring operated outside government knowledge. Hezbollah possesed thousands of M-16 rifle and several MILAN ATGM. Is that mean US and French government supplied Hezbollah with this weapons?

ps: anyone with a proper workshop can produce a carbon copy of AK-47 rifle, with carbon copy serial numbers and all. Beside, Iran are not stupid enough to give weapons to the Insurgents with a clear "made in Iran" on it as was shown by the americans. it's too obvious to be real.

ps2: my statement above doesn't mean that i'm undermining the resistance in Iraq. I fully support any genuine resistance movement, political or armed, that restore the destiny of Iraq at the hand's of it's people. and i support any effort to that end, including the killing of US soldiers on OCCUPATIONAL duty INSIDE IRAQ.
 

Grand Danois

Entertainer
ps2: my statement above doesn't mean that i'm undermining the resistance in Iraq. I fully support any genuine resistance movement, political or armed, that restore the destiny of Iraq at the hand's of it's people. and i support any effort to that end, including the killing of US soldiers on OCCUPATIONAL duty INSIDE IRAQ.
A mod comment. We can discuss if there is evidence of Iran waging a proxy war in Iraq, no problem. But the discussion of what constitutes terrorism as opposed to a ("genuine"?) resistance movement is going to derail any topic. So off limits.

Thanks for understanding.

/GD
 

swerve

Super Moderator
Nuclear energy. They are, if you sit on top of so much natural gas. Then (in the Iranian model of subsidies) you'll have export more gas to pay for the same electricity, than if you just used the gas on making the electricity. Nuclear energy is not free , nor cheap. And if gas is cheaper, then you actually deplete your reserves faster than if just using the gas yourself. And with oil it gets ludicrous.....
In Irans case, the cost of their nuclear power stations would have more than covered the cost of installing the infrastructure to capture all the gas they currently flare off from oil wells, pipe it to the nearest towns for cooking, etc, build power stations (gas powered electricity generators are relatively cheap) near large oilfields & bottling plants near small ones. This would have provided Iran with more power than the nuclear plants at much lower cost, the capital cost being much lower & the fuel itself being absolutely free. The capital investment would have started generating returns much quicker, too. And since the gas is currently being flared, using it has no carbon footpring implications, & the carbon footprint is therefore less than nuclear, because less energy-intensive construction would be needed.
 

Grand Danois

Entertainer
In Irans case, the cost of their nuclear power stations would have more than covered the cost of installing the infrastructure to capture all the gas they currently flare off from oil wells, pipe it to the nearest towns for cooking, etc, build power stations (gas powered electricity generators are relatively cheap) near large oilfields & bottling plants near small ones. This would have provided Iran with more power than the nuclear plants at much lower cost, the capital cost being much lower & the fuel itself being absolutely free. The capital investment would have started generating returns much quicker, too. And since the gas is currently being flared, using it has no carbon footpring implications, & the carbon footprint is therefore less than nuclear, because less energy-intensive construction would be needed.
Just curious, not that I don't believe you - you got link?

Like the CO2 perspective.
 

Stryker001

Banned Member
Iran

The nuclear sites are only one part of any strategy to hold Iran to account. The Quads and their influence in Iran is a key to limiting Iranian global influence.

Further, more they have an enrichment program and a missile program; they could develop a non-conventional missile with in a short period of time.

It's a no brainer.
 

M.Furqan Azhar

New Member
stryker00!!! u r also rigth amazing is that any one understand this thing but united nation cannot understand this....!!!!

What is role of United Nations ..???
 

Stryker001

Banned Member
Iran

Iran should have taken the proposal suggested by the Russian in regards to enrichment of uranium and recovery, it was the best deal they were going to get in regards to transparent civil nuclear power.[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

Until an international enrichment and recovery system was put in place with Russia as a key member.
 

Stryker001

Banned Member
Iran

The future is going to be reliant on nuclear power and safeguards need to be installed to prevent the proliferation of non-conventional weapons. Any enrichment and recovery program which is exploited would result in harsh automatic sanctions and military action.

The agreement is binding and no vote by the security council would be required as the response is already sanctioned by the UN under the agreement.


This is the only way to safeguard the non-proliferation of nuclear weapons while allowing nuclear power to be used. There will be no more nuclear weaponry allowed to any nations other than those who already possess it.
 

Stryker001

Banned Member
Iran

People should not confuse the non-proliferation issue, with the State sponsored terrorism issue they are two different matters.

A civil nuclear program, under strict guidelines in regards to enriched uranium, as the French said no one is saying that a ‘genuine need’ for nuclear power should be denied.

A resolution to stop State sponsored terrorism is more complex, but is the key to achieving peace for the Palestinians and stabilizing the Middle East including the Kingdoms.

Hence, the reason as to why the Iranians are belligerent and that is the real problem. Are strikes a solution of course not, but military action is an extension of diplomacy.

You have been naughty and taken a cookie out of the cookie jar and now you get a smack.


1983
 

swerve

Super Moderator
Just curious, not that I don't believe you - you got link?

Like the CO2 perspective.
Consider - the gas is being burned as we type, but to no purpose, just making big flames above oil wells. Trapping it & burning where it would be useful would add nothing to the CO2 output. To the extent that it replaces other fossil fuel, it will reduce CO2 output.

Various sources. e.g.
http://www.economist.com/world/africa/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10181134

Has prompted a denial from the Iranian government, which insists much of the gas is not economically recoverable - but says nothing about why it is so lackadaisical about recovering that part which it admits is worth it. :D

This article points out some other energy- and cost-efficient investments Iran could make in fuel, with immensely better returns than its current nuclear programme -

http://cns.miis.edu/pubs/npr/vol14/141/141wood.pdf

Slide 21 of this official Iranian presentation shows that in 1994, 11% of Iranian CO2 emissions were due to flaring -

http://unfccc.int/resource/docs/natc/presentations/iranncpresent.pdf
 
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