Strait of Hormuz
- Thread starter Izzy1
- Start date
PullerRommel
New Member
Is there a link or something or Sat Pics we could look at?
RubiconNZ
The Wanderer
Nothing reported yet, I guess we will have for the News Networks to catch up
gunnut2002
New Member
The Iranians have been doing this for months(haven't heard anything lately) their just trying to act bigger than they are. I say bush should come out of hidin and send a warning to amhad ad-madinjab(the iranian presant probly spelt wrong) that if he doesn't stop taunting america we will respond.
PullerRommel
New Member
The warning would not be true especially since Bush is packing his bags already. The economic effect would speed the US to its new Great Depression and the amount of people that it would take to invade Iran would be alot more given that Iran is 2-3 times the size of Iraq not only geopraphically but in population aswell. In my opinion if the US were to attack Iran the repurcussions would be a thousand times worse than any payoff if any it would have. Not to mention Iran has Chinese and Russian backing and im sure China would not like to see its new oil agreements with Iran suddenly stop.
Uh huh... big, bad, awesome Iran will bring America to it's knees overnight, and China will jump in if we do anything about it.
Not buying it, Rommel.
First, its all just a ploy by Iran to jack the price of oil up, and keep it up. A lot of speculators are going to loose bigtime when the price falls again, but not before Iran expends every bit of credibility it ever had, or could have had.
You honstly think that a backwards, feudal state of 65 million can destroy the future of a nation of 300 million? America has the most advanced military and years of recent combat experiance behind it.
Iran boasts of a re-make of the F-5 and has the equivalent of the SS (revolutionary guard) controling the population through fear and intimidation.
Pakistan and Turkey are not known for being friends of Iran, I wonder if they might help out, in exchange for a few provinces.
Not buying it, Rommel.
First, its all just a ploy by Iran to jack the price of oil up, and keep it up. A lot of speculators are going to loose bigtime when the price falls again, but not before Iran expends every bit of credibility it ever had, or could have had.
You honstly think that a backwards, feudal state of 65 million can destroy the future of a nation of 300 million? America has the most advanced military and years of recent combat experiance behind it.
Iran boasts of a re-make of the F-5 and has the equivalent of the SS (revolutionary guard) controling the population through fear and intimidation.
Pakistan and Turkey are not known for being friends of Iran, I wonder if they might help out, in exchange for a few provinces.
PullerRommel
New Member
I think you took what i meant about Iran in the terms that they will defeat us in conventional military combat. What i meant was economic effects, more soldiers shipped off, etc. Plus i dont care how good your military is if doesnt have an economy.
Ok it might be all hype but if we did invade our oil prices are not going to go down they would go up though im sure of it.
Also, Militarily i would say a good 200,000-250,000 troops to secure the whole of Iran? Even if we did have the manpower from Pakistan or Turkey we would still need more of our soldiers and i seriously doubt anyone in the US wants to keep going in one war let alone start a new one. Thats not the fun part though than we have more surges of terrorism and errupting guerilla warfare. Then instead of looking at one death count we can look at two....doubled:eek
I doubt China would come to its rescue Russia might though because if im not mistaken they signed a Treaty promising military help (?). I know it would not pass in the security council whatsoever.
Do you think the draft would be instated if this not going to happen invasion happened?
Ok it might be all hype but if we did invade our oil prices are not going to go down they would go up though im sure of it.
Also, Militarily i would say a good 200,000-250,000 troops to secure the whole of Iran? Even if we did have the manpower from Pakistan or Turkey we would still need more of our soldiers and i seriously doubt anyone in the US wants to keep going in one war let alone start a new one. Thats not the fun part though than we have more surges of terrorism and errupting guerilla warfare. Then instead of looking at one death count we can look at two....doubled:eek
I doubt China would come to its rescue Russia might though because if im not mistaken they signed a Treaty promising military help (?). I know it would not pass in the security council whatsoever.
Do you think the draft would be instated if this not going to happen invasion happened?
Probably the Ayatollahs and Ahmadhinutjob just strutting around again. They've been doing this a lot like one of the previous comments says.
Right now, the Iranians are pressing home their proxy wars in Iraq, Lebanon, and Palestine. The last thing the Iranians want is to be facing a unified Sunni Arab front against them, so they're trying to intimidate the GCC states.
Also, there's also the factor keeping oil prices high so they can prop up their failing economy.
Right now, the Iranians are pressing home their proxy wars in Iraq, Lebanon, and Palestine. The last thing the Iranians want is to be facing a unified Sunni Arab front against them, so they're trying to intimidate the GCC states.
Also, there's also the factor keeping oil prices high so they can prop up their failing economy.
mysterious
New Member
Manfred2 and KevinB, there's no point in degrading Iranians, their society, their leaders, etc. Quit being ignorant racists & discuss the topic in a military context.
Iran currently finds itself in a position where it feels it has to showcase brinkmanship to offset some of the pressure being applied on it internationally.
The mass troop movement could also have been triggered by even the most rudimentary intelligence error that perhaps Israelis or Americans were covertly preparing to attack Iranian nuclear facilities - the show of force would make any covert operatives think twice.
Many more explanations could be factored in but ignorant ranting against a society, its people, the way things work there doesnt say much abt the class of the member making that post.
Iran currently finds itself in a position where it feels it has to showcase brinkmanship to offset some of the pressure being applied on it internationally.
The mass troop movement could also have been triggered by even the most rudimentary intelligence error that perhaps Israelis or Americans were covertly preparing to attack Iranian nuclear facilities - the show of force would make any covert operatives think twice.
Many more explanations could be factored in but ignorant ranting against a society, its people, the way things work there doesnt say much abt the class of the member making that post.
Oh, wow! You scared the Iranians with that one! :shudder
nfloorl: Learn how to SPELL and type coherent sentences, please! You're making Americans look stupid...
Anyways, until it's confirmed we can't tell anything for sure. But if this is true then chances are the Americans/Israelis did something that scared the Iranians into doing this. They could wreak havoc in Stair of Hormuz with anti-shipping missiles so I would say that this would be a pretty good response to anyone thinking of attacking. But, if this is just for no reason (which I doubt) then this IMHO would be extremely counter-productive for Iran. IIRC, either the Foreign Minister of Iran or Ahmedinjad said that they were not going to respond to any attack by shutting off Strait of Hormuz "becuase no responsible state would do so". Or am I mistaken?
Manfred2 and KevinB, there's no point in degrading Iranians, their society, their leaders, etc. Quit being ignorant racists & discuss the topic in a military context.
And where exactly did I go on a racist rant?
Iran currently finds itself in a position where it feels it has to showcase brinkmanship to offset some of the pressure being applied on it internationally.
Yeah, sure, brinksmanship is so much more succesful than ditching the nukes and trying to fix an economy that is a wreak!
In that context, the Iranian Government is less rational than N. Korea.... :shudder
The mass troop movement could also have been triggered by even the most rudimentary intelligence error that perhaps Israelis or Americans were covertly preparing to attack Iranian nuclear facilities - the show of force would make any covert operatives think twice.
Moving an Armored Brigade around deters commandoes?
Nope, it just makes headlines and causes a bunch of gullible speculators raise prices, again.
Many more explanations could be factored in but ignorant ranting against a society, its people, the way things work there doesnt say much abt the class of the member making that post
The society is backwards, most of the people in Iran don't have cars, electricity or running water.
These are facts, not rants, Mysterious. Im no diplomat, so I deal with things in a direct and unvarnished way.
You know, like military folks do.
Also- why the angst over the troops needed to deal with Iran?
Since most of the weapons and explosives coming into Iraq and Afganistan are coming from Iran, we would cut off the terrorists supply route... those that are left. We could switch the larger part of those garrisons, and even bring some Native armies with us.
Might do the Afgans some good to see a little of the wider world, eh?
And where exactly did I go on a racist rant?
Iran currently finds itself in a position where it feels it has to showcase brinkmanship to offset some of the pressure being applied on it internationally.
Yeah, sure, brinksmanship is so much more succesful than ditching the nukes and trying to fix an economy that is a wreak!
In that context, the Iranian Government is less rational than N. Korea.... :shudder
The mass troop movement could also have been triggered by even the most rudimentary intelligence error that perhaps Israelis or Americans were covertly preparing to attack Iranian nuclear facilities - the show of force would make any covert operatives think twice.
Moving an Armored Brigade around deters commandoes?
Nope, it just makes headlines and causes a bunch of gullible speculators raise prices, again.
Many more explanations could be factored in but ignorant ranting against a society, its people, the way things work there doesnt say much abt the class of the member making that post
The society is backwards, most of the people in Iran don't have cars, electricity or running water.
These are facts, not rants, Mysterious. Im no diplomat, so I deal with things in a direct and unvarnished way.
You know, like military folks do.
Also- why the angst over the troops needed to deal with Iran?
Since most of the weapons and explosives coming into Iraq and Afganistan are coming from Iran, we would cut off the terrorists supply route... those that are left. We could switch the larger part of those garrisons, and even bring some Native armies with us.
Might do the Afgans some good to see a little of the wider world, eh?
Ummm... no?
- According to the IEA, World Energy Outlook and Poverty, some 97.9% of Iranians have access to electricity (average for Middle East and North Africa: 86.7%)
- According to the WHO, 81% of Iranians have access to piped water in their household (96% urban population, 66% rural population; 2% of urban and 14.5% of rural population are supplied by wells).
- cars are indeed somewhat rare, but, seriously, as a development index that was similarly low in pre-1990 Eastern Europe as well.
They wouldn't have much to return to. By drawing Afghanistan into a war with Iran, you'd cause:
- the Karzai government to be "removed".
- another large warlord faction to split from NATO, namely those that support Iran.
- mass desertions among soldiers from certain population groups (such as Hazrati).
- make Northwest Afghanistan even hotter than South/East.
- probably cause the Northwest (Herat) to declare independance, and fight on Irans side.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #14
Getting back to the point...
The above is fantasy. But a very real possibility.
Could Iran - given the circumstances and with some very basic tactics, cause all hell upon the World economy and maybe push forward its goals?
Before we get into response - how would you close the Strait of Hormuz?
Close it - depends.
Mine Warfare being the obvious primary choice of course, with the Kilos and other units patrolling the outer perimeter in the Indian Ocean. Strengthening garrisons on either side of the straits (coast/islands) of course too, including air-defense.
Problem is the fleet that's already in the Gulf of course, as well as the increasing pressure from forces outside the Gulf.
Provided those could be neutralized (uh... sure ) or at least temporarily diminished in power/capability, closing the straits is no problem.
Mine Warfare being the obvious primary choice of course, with the Kilos and other units patrolling the outer perimeter in the Indian Ocean. Strengthening garrisons on either side of the straits (coast/islands) of course too, including air-defense.
Problem is the fleet that's already in the Gulf of course, as well as the increasing pressure from forces outside the Gulf.
Provided those could be neutralized (uh... sure
) or at least temporarily diminished in power/capability, closing the straits is no problem.Who is the IEA? If it's the UN, I never listen to those geeks in the first place...
But, yeah, moving on-
I put out a plan of action a while back for Iran, and the discusion never took off.
I proposed Iran sending out 2 Kilos to the south end of the Red Sea, and laying mines there at the same time that mines were laid in Hormuz. Then they could re-arm with torpedoes at some temporary depot disquised as a derilict hulk off Somalia.
This would add to the confusion and havoc on the first day of the festivities, and the Subs involved would be the only Iranian ships not bottled up in the Gulf.
There were two problems; how to get them out there undetected, and what targets a Kilo make priority #1.
The Iranian surface fleet is doomed, aside from a couple of units that might be away on a good will tour... but to where?
Can Iranian ships make it to North Korea?:nutkick
But, yeah, moving on-
I put out a plan of action a while back for Iran, and the discusion never took off.
I proposed Iran sending out 2 Kilos to the south end of the Red Sea, and laying mines there at the same time that mines were laid in Hormuz. Then they could re-arm with torpedoes at some temporary depot disquised as a derilict hulk off Somalia.
This would add to the confusion and havoc on the first day of the festivities, and the Subs involved would be the only Iranian ships not bottled up in the Gulf.
There were two problems; how to get them out there undetected, and what targets a Kilo make priority #1.
The Iranian surface fleet is doomed, aside from a couple of units that might be away on a good will tour... but to where?
Can Iranian ships make it to North Korea?:nutkick
Approx 2 years ago the NorKs had subs off the central west coast of Africa - and they were older "crappier" boats.
Firstly, America would bomb Iran back to the stone age, before ANY American troops set foot into Iran. They would have to take out key targets first.They want to get as many troops as they can from the air. We don't want another Vietnam/WW II on our hands. It would be a huge air campaign consisting of Israel and America..... And who ever else wants to join.
Going straight offtopic for this post...
Look up the Air Campaign against Yugoslavia in 1999. Please. 1,000+ aircraft, 10 weeks, 40,000+ sorties. No, no stone age. And after the first 6-8 weeks, NATO started prepping ground forces for a potential invasion, as the air campaign wasn't working as expected.
*Yawn*
Look up the Air Campaign against Yugoslavia in 1999. Please. 1,000+ aircraft, 10 weeks, 40,000+ sorties. No, no stone age. And after the first 6-8 weeks, NATO started prepping ground forces for a potential invasion, as the air campaign wasn't working as expected.
But 1999 is different from 2007. Better bombs, better jets, and better pilots. Stone age was a expression {looks like you didn't realize} that. The Pentagon has already discussed that they would take out key targets, before ANY American would step into Iran, there is no arguing that. Are you also saying that America and Israel would not resort to air campaigns? Please explain what you mean, i know about the Kosova war all to well. I had a cousin that was serving from 1995-2002 and his unit went over to Yugoslavia. The 26th Marine Expeditionary Unit.
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