French Snubbed By Saudis

[Izzy1]

Is it now a requirement to be an expert on a topic before you are allowed to discuss it? Marc

Of course not Doc, anyone here on DT is more than welcome to their valued opinion. I'm sorry though, some people are going to oppose your view - your more than welcome to counter it. But here also on DT, you may run into members who do actually have a bit of experience within Saudi defence. Agreed?

Getting back on topic, as long as the DGA and Sarkozy hold the reigns in Paris - French military deals with Saudi will be limited.

thats true but France gave priceless support that made these French-made missiles useless for Iraq in 90-91.

"Priceless" - really? SaudiArabian. Correct me if I am wrong, granted, they 'selectively' gave the Iraqi Croatale and ROLAND SAM codes. But back when it mattered, did not MATRA/Aerospatile withdraw their support crews?

It's not just about Sarkozy...

 

[radiosilence]

perhaps the Saudis want some EH101 this will run and run perhaps the French will have a revised offer

I am puzzled by the report, I was hoping Izzy or someone else with knowledge Saudi Arabia's procurement policy would comment on the report.

 

[Izzy1]

I am puzzled by the report, I was hoping Izzy or someone else with knowledge Saudi Arabia's procurement policy would comment on the report.

radiosilence its a time of flux here in Saudi. I wish I could tell you.

 

[contedicavour]

Nice topic here... France is very likely to sell new frigates to Saudi (after the Al Madinah and the latest modified Lafayette, now a couple of air defence FREMMs are expected). France never stood a chance of selling Rafales to a country that has bought British (Tornado, now Typhoon) and American (F15) planes so far. The helos procurement is somewhat more mixed, and while a Russian acquisition is a first there could still be room for Eurocopter sales of models built in French factories.

cheers

 

[Izzy1]

Nice topic here... France is very likely to sell new frigates to Saudi (after the Al Madinah and the latest modified Lafayette, now a couple of air defence FREMMs are expected). France never stood a chance of selling Rafales to a country that has bought British (Tornado, now Typhoon) and American (F15) planes so far. The helos procurement is somewhat more mixed, and while a Russian acquisition is a first there could still be room for Eurocopter sales of models built in French factories.

cheers

Conte, you may know different back in Paris on FREMM, but the story here is that President Sarkozy and the DGA are currently 'persona non grata' in Riyadh terms.

As we know, the new Paris Administration is propbably the most open 'pro-US/pro-Israel' French Government in the last 50 years. In the run up to the election, Sarkozy in the Saudi press was never popular (his history as Interior Minister - the riots, the hijab in French schools etc). Things hit their peak however, when Sarkozy made the point of making the Emir of Qatar his first invite to the Elysee Palace. For anyone who doesn't know - the rulling families of Saudi and Qatar, putting it mildly, don't get on... at all.

Rafale was never a starter, the Saudis kept saying "maybe" to Chirac knowing he was gone soon. Too expensive, French-systems specific. But now the A330 MRTT deal is on permanent hold, Eurocopter may get a 50-strong Fennec/Cougar deal. Still, RSAF has been told to stop looking at A400M (and consider a joint deal with the UAE for C-17...!) and now the already signed-deal for 30xCEASER 155mm for the SANG is under "reconsideration". Bofors-BAE are highly likely to re-tender their FH-155 system.

In the meantime, the Royal Saudi Land Force's 1970s-legacy French-equipped 12th Armoured and 6th Mechanised Brigades at Tabuk have 300 AMX-30 MBT, 600 AMX-10 IFV and over 3000 support vehicles urgently needing replacement. Long speculated to favour Le Clerc, the Russians now seem to be favourite to oblige.

Thus, Saudi may soon operate both T-90 and M1-A2 in the same ORBAT.

 

[radiosilence]

Setting aside the political issues the Saudis might have with the current French govt. There are reports of the Saudis buying up to 12 LCS(lockheed) equipped with Aegis as part of the multibillion dollar deal announced earlier this year. If it materializes, I can't see the Saudis going for FREMMs too.

 

[SaudiArabian]

"Priceless" - really? SaudiArabian. Correct me if I am wrong, granted, they 'selectively' gave the Iraqi Croatale and ROLAND SAM codes. But back when it mattered, did not MATRA/Aerospatile withdraw their support crews?

It's not just about Sarkozy...

i know that France has installed an air defense system they called "KARI" which was advanced but it was the first to be destroyed but i don't know what French companies been doing. France government gave strong political and military support in favor of Saudi Arabia.

 

[Izzy1]

i know that France has installed an air defense system they called "KARI" which was advanced but it was the first to be destroyed but i don't know what French companies been doing. France government gave strong political and military support in favor of Saudi Arabia.

SA, great to hear from you, Sallam. Hope all mumtaz.

We will differ, it seems, on their role during the defence of Saudi Arabia.

What can you tell me about now?

 

[SaudiArabian]

SA, great to hear from you, Sallam. Hope all mumtaz.

We will differ, it seems, on their role during the defence of Saudi Arabia.

What can you tell me about now?

salam : )

well , you said things about French companies staff in Iraq but i don't know if they fled from Iraq or kept there. what matters me is the French official stance from the start which was supportive of Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.

it also must be mentioned that the 2nd Gulf War marked the first time a European Force (France) becomes under Islamic/Saudi command (Joint Forces). their air forces have participated in combat against Iraq as well.

but those were past , 17 years ago , today is much different

 

[Izzy1]

salam : )

well , you said things about French companies staff in Iraq but i don't know if they fled from Iraq or kept there. what matters me is the French official stance from the start which was supportive of Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.

it also must be mentioned that the 2nd Gulf War marked the first time a European Force (France) becomes under Islamic/Saudi command (Joint Forces). their air forces have participated in combat against Iraq as well.

but those were past , 17 years ago , today is much different

If you can tell me/others different about it SaudiArabian, I bow to your superior knowledge.

Funny, I seem to remember the US Marine I-HAWK Batteries replacing their "lost" capability.

Au Revoir SA.

 

[Spacearrow99]

The Saudis would be stupid to cut-off ties with the French. Sarkozy is arrogrant and a loud mouth, but he could be good ally. The Saudi RF has a great relationship with the Bush family. The U.S.-Saudi relationship will change probably change when the next president get in office. Giuliani, Romney, Obama, and McCain don't like the current Saudi government. Clinton and Edwards look at the polls to make their decisions. Anyway, the Saudi Arabia will have alot less influence in the next U.S. Administration.


The Indians, Chinese, and the Iranians don't trust the Russians; China and Indian are bank rolling the Russian Defence Industry. It will take alot more than a 2 billion dollar heliocopter deal to earn the Russians favor.