ADF recruitment crisis.
- Thread starter RubOneOut
- Start date
yes the australian army is in danger of shrinking,this is because due to the unemployement problems we faced not long ago, people were joining up as it would have seemed thre only option but now unemployement is low in this country so people have become less interested in joining the adf
coincidentally this comes at the same time as a rise in the popularity of anzac day as more and more people start attending parades
coincidentally this comes at the same time as a rise in the popularity of anzac day as more and more people start attending parades
Australia's unemployment rate has been in the single digits for over 10 years. It's highest point was 11% when Australia had a short recession but since then it's decreasing. Currently the unemployment rate is around 5% which is more than enough people to fill the ranks of the ADF. It's more concerned with the preferences people have. I managed to interested someone in joining the ADF with 5 minutes of talking to him at my school. Just give them the simple facts and they will get interested. Of course they will have to have some sort of interest in the military anyway. Not the typical "hey I get to blow shit up" attitude.
Also I hear a lot of people who want to join the ADF get turned away. I don't think there's a lack of interest in joining the ADF, it's just higher standards to join I guess.
Also I hear a lot of people who want to join the ADF get turned away. I don't think there's a lack of interest in joining the ADF, it's just higher standards to join I guess.
There is no crisis for positions that don't require technical qualifications/higher ed. I think Aussie Digger has commented on the ludicrous wait times for someone who just wants to join up as soldier, apparently with months passing before anything happens. Time enough for people to change minds and move on to other career paths.
Anyway, quoted from Senate hansard:
http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard -> S9103.pdf
Anyway, quoted from Senate hansard:
http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard -> S9103.pdf
Supe-
I have three years of a Mechanical Engineering Degree under my belt. Beating your way through the process is an absolute pain in the arse.
In addition they expect you (in many cases) to sign up in the hope of getting the job you want. As an example if you wish to be a pilot you cannot apply to a service, instead you must first battle through Manpower, get through the initial screening as quickly as possible then wait around till you can get a spot at flight screening which takes two weeks to complete. Then and only then do you get into the Officer Selection Board etc. Make your way through that and you then have to enter a pool for all three services in the hope of getting the one you want. You can take what you're offered or wait up to 12 months in the hope of getting your first choice.
Those I've spoken to that went combat arms enlisted said pretty much the same thing about the amount of time it takes to push your application through.
Is it any bloody wonder that these higher skilled people won't or can't sit around to finally get the nod rather than picking the private sector where you can get work in as little as a couple of weeks with higher pay and with no need to move to holes like Townsville and Darwin. I imagine the situation is even worse in the skilled trades given the skills shortages we're currently experiencing. Guys I went to high school with are now out as electricians (regular stuff, data cabling, automation etc), carpenters or even landscapers. Of the three that are close friends two now have their own business while the third runs projects in three different states (shopfitter). These guys are 22 years old and come from a school that scoffs at trade classes. The closest you were likely to get to that might be electronics in your Physics class.
How on earth the ADF expects to compete when they run recruitment so badly, have some pretty crappy posts and pay far less I'll never know. Service, training, comraderie etc can go a long way to compensate for the last two but not when they treat prospective members so badly.
I have three years of a Mechanical Engineering Degree under my belt. Beating your way through the process is an absolute pain in the arse.
In addition they expect you (in many cases) to sign up in the hope of getting the job you want. As an example if you wish to be a pilot you cannot apply to a service, instead you must first battle through Manpower, get through the initial screening as quickly as possible then wait around till you can get a spot at flight screening which takes two weeks to complete. Then and only then do you get into the Officer Selection Board etc. Make your way through that and you then have to enter a pool for all three services in the hope of getting the one you want. You can take what you're offered or wait up to 12 months in the hope of getting your first choice.
Those I've spoken to that went combat arms enlisted said pretty much the same thing about the amount of time it takes to push your application through.
Is it any bloody wonder that these higher skilled people won't or can't sit around to finally get the nod rather than picking the private sector where you can get work in as little as a couple of weeks with higher pay and with no need to move to holes like Townsville and Darwin. I imagine the situation is even worse in the skilled trades given the skills shortages we're currently experiencing. Guys I went to high school with are now out as electricians (regular stuff, data cabling, automation etc), carpenters or even landscapers. Of the three that are close friends two now have their own business while the third runs projects in three different states (shopfitter). These guys are 22 years old and come from a school that scoffs at trade classes. The closest you were likely to get to that might be electronics in your Physics class.
How on earth the ADF expects to compete when they run recruitment so badly, have some pretty crappy posts and pay far less I'll never know. Service, training, comraderie etc can go a long way to compensate for the last two but not when they treat prospective members so badly.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #10
My reasons are:Chory said:
Good way to move out of home.
Opportunity to travel.
Good pay (if you're young and single).
Ability to do stuff you only see in movies (drive around in tanks, parachute from planes, ride choppers into combat etc.)
Rank structure provides a clear way to the top.
If you stick around long enough you could end up in a high-ranking position (General).
BTW, (correct me if I'm wrong) I think the RAN is a branch of the ADF.
To be honest I'm not sure that moving straight from home to the ADF is a great idea, depending on your life experience.RubOneOut said:
As for travel if you're joining the Army chances are you'll be stuck a hole like Townsville, in terms of deployments you'd need to pick your job carefully...
In my view it's the opportunities the ADF offers that civilian careers can't added to the idea that you're doing something actually worthwhile...
The pay and benefits heavily outweight those of civilian jobs of the same pay. Think of it, you get around 45,000 before tax a year, that's all up and then you have benefits such as free medical and dental, basically most of your rent paid(if you're renting), close to free food, learning how to survive and getting yourself fit and others.
You're getting paid, fed and looked after to learn how to do a job then do it. You'd end up saving a lot of the money too. Plus, if you get put on deployment, you get paid an extra 150 a day I think it is?
You're getting paid, fed and looked after to learn how to do a job then do it. You'd end up saving a lot of the money too. Plus, if you get put on deployment, you get paid an extra 150 a day I think it is?
abramsteve
New Member
My reasons are mainly personal, I come from a RAAF family, live in a RAAF area... But a number of my mates joined/ are joining (the ADF in general) for reasons such as:
Patriotism
Pay
Travel
Job Satisfaction
Job Security (thats a big one these days)
Opertunities
One of my mates worked at Holdens for a while. He didnt mind it, had money, had very few responsibilties... could go out on the weekend and blow his money on drink. Then he realisied that he wasnt going anywhere, so he went down the recruiting office and a few weeks later he had enlisted in the RAAF. Now hes in Wagga Wagga, which doesnt sound to glamourous, but hes got money, hes got few responsibilities but hes doing something worthwhile and hes going somewhere. And still spending his weekends in pubs
Patriotism
Pay
Travel
Job Satisfaction
Job Security (thats a big one these days)
Opertunities
One of my mates worked at Holdens for a while. He didnt mind it, had money, had very few responsibilties... could go out on the weekend and blow his money on drink. Then he realisied that he wasnt going anywhere, so he went down the recruiting office and a few weeks later he had enlisted in the RAAF. Now hes in Wagga Wagga, which doesnt sound to glamourous, but hes got money, hes got few responsibilities but hes doing something worthwhile and hes going somewhere. And still spending his weekends in pubs
waiting period
Hi all, my name is Paul. I have decided after many years of wanting to serve that the time is finally right to take the plunge. I've been in contact with a few people and the information i've recieved suggests there is a wait on some jobs as there is not always an opening. Just wondering if anyone can tell me how long i'd expect to wait for a position as a rifleman?
Hi all, my name is Paul. I have decided after many years of wanting to serve that the time is finally right to take the plunge. I've been in contact with a few people and the information i've recieved suggests there is a wait on some jobs as there is not always an opening. Just wondering if anyone can tell me how long i'd expect to wait for a position as a rifleman?
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
Where?
In which army or service?
A few more indicators of your intentions would be helpful...
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
I imagine you will be processed fairly quickly these days, there are plenty of rifleman positions at present with the existing battalions being "fleshed out" and the new battalions still being raised.
Unfortunately what counts against you at present is that Army has a very large amount of infantry recruits right now and have had to shift some Initial Employment Training courses to the battalions themselves due to the School of Infantry being unable to handle the sheer numbers coming through...
I'd imagine within 12 months of applying you'll be training...
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AD is on the money. You should shoot through recruiting pretty fast.
Here are a few tips not only for you, but for anyone who is thinking about joining the ADF, I hope this comes in handy for you. Some is basic interview skills, some is specific to the ADF.
* Look your best. Get a decent haircut. Do NOT shave your head (#2 at the very closest) but a smart haircut will look way better than a flat buzzcut. Looking presentable is the key - the #2 thing happens in recruit school.
* Personal Hygiene. No kidding, sitting in recruiting with a stinky bod next to you is bad. Seeing the person escorting them back to the waiting room, then taking a deep breath once out of the vicinity is a bad look.
Make sure you get your nervous tinkles and such out of the way just before interviews as well. Better to be comfortable, not sweating over when you can relieve yourself. Plus, bad hygiene is a sure fire way to getting a damn good kicking at some stage.
Be clean shaven - cannot emphasise this enough.
* Always wear business attire. Do not - repeat - DO NOT show up in jeans and a polo shirt, nor anything less than such.
Bare essentials are: a pair of IRONED slacks, black shoes and a business shirt. (No need for the jacket or tie unless it's winter, but you can move into a suit if you feel comfortable - I did.) No surf shirts or brand-name crap, wear a proper business shirt.
Do NOT wear a hat or sunglasses inside, and stow hat/sunnies in a bag. Make sure the bag is a decent looking item as well; a fabric briefcase I found was not so "yuppie" and not tacky as a backpack.
* Be knowledgeable. At your interviews, know not only what you specifically want to do, but also related categories.
* Know the rank structure of not only your service, but the other two. Call your recruiter by their correct title if Non-com, or "Sir" if they are an officer. If you know how, stand to attention when you are not seated and an officer walks by; they may tell you not to bother, but it shows you understand respect for the rank.
* Know the basic badge/medal makeup. If you can tell the WO that he is combat ready, and he's been in for 20 years, you'll look a little smarter.
* Work on your basic maths, and ensure you write neatly and can spell correctly.
You'll probably be asked several times to write stuff out for them; you want to look professional and neat.
Know your times tables up to 12.
* Always take every bit of info with you. Never leave something at home because you don't think you need it. If you ever fill out a form, photocopy it. Keep it all in a file, save you having to think about it again. Goes for all forms, regardless of type - plus you can re-send by fax if need be. (Things can and do get lost)
* Do not lie about anything. If they catch you out with a lie, you are finished.
* Smile, and always be sincere. If you show up looking like you've lost your dog, or don't look interested in what they are saying, you'll get nowhere.
* Show up early. Never, ever, ever arrive late for anything.
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* Aim high. Aim for the highest job you think you might like. If you think you're possibly Officer material, then apply for an SSO / GSO position and duke it out. Tell them that you initially were interested in many aspects (and make sure you tell them that you are not averse to being a rifleman). Too many folks signed up and enlisted and were wasted when they could have been brilliant Officers. But if you wanna be a grunt, then go for it.
* Know your alternatives. Going in and not getting what you want is a great way to be signed up for what you don't want.
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* Know who you serve. Know the faces and names of: The Queen, Governor General, Chief of ADF, Chiefs of all three services, PM, Minister for Defence, Shadow Min. Defence.
Know the relationship between H.M. Queen Elizabeth, the G.G., and the PM.
* Know what the ADF is up to, both in development and operationally. Know where we are, what we are doing, and also what we have planned.
Know all our current operations, whether peace-keeping, disaster relief, border protection, everything.
Know what/who/how many has been deployed where for extra points.
However, don't shoot off at the mouth because you think you are an authority on some aspect; simply state facts and leave it at that.
* Know where you are being trained. Know your basic career training and promotion path, where you will be based, where you can move to, and what you will do there.
* Know your service. Know ALL of the bases it runs, and what takes place there.
Know who is based where if you can.
* Know the hardware. Not too much, but have a basic knowledge of weapons we use and the ammunition it uses.
Know what vehicles you might encounter or use.
Do not have an opinion of anything; state facts.
Do not look like a walking encyclopedia of armaments; people tend to think "loony", just the basics.
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I hope this helps. There is loads more, but this'll be most of the way to getting you well ahead of the pack. As for basic training, well that's a whole 'nother story. I'm not Army, but I can tell you plenty of tips on basic training to keep you out of trouble. Let me know if you want me to post that.
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