Syrian Chemical Weapon Facility?

[Sgt.Banes]

While this could be debatable considering it was on Google earth and I discovered a SCUD and CW facility near the city of Halab. Not to mention I spotted SA/2 and SA/5 sites near this location in Norther Syria. Could someone shed some light on this?

 

[funtz]

Yes there was this article on the defense update website:

http://www.defense-update.com/analysis/analysis_230907_syria_cw.htm

With the associated clips from google earth (long live google),

Well I guess they might have them there (then again they might not).

however to attack Israel with chemical weapons might draw in a allied force translate into the utter destruction of all of their forces and centers of political power, international criticism which will translate into sanctions-forever, and absolutely no change in the political map of that region.

As for the real application of chemical warfare as a cheaper/easier solution to nuclear deterrence, well I personally think it is not so, chemical weapons can be protected against and the military ability of a force prepared for NBC warfare will not be affected by margin that will translate into a military advantage for the side using chemical weapons, as for the effect on the region, yes if the chemical agents contaminate the region for a considerable period of time the economical and human damages will be great.

Not to mention that Israel might be working to find a way around the aforementioned "SA/2 and SA/5" systems, as their military success might depend on it, or that they will be willing to make the sacrifices required to protect their population from a chemical attack, and the work Israelies have done on missile defense.

And i can only imagine as to what the military level satellite intelligence is (as i do not know about it) if the google level
intelligence reveals so much. Any one care explaining?

 

[eckherl]

Yes there was this article on the defense update website:

http://www.defense-update.com/analysis/analysis_230907_syria_cw.htm

With the associated clips from google earth (long live google),

Well I guess they might have them there (then again they might not).

however to attack Israel with chemical weapons might draw in a allied force translate into the utter destruction of all of their forces and centers of political power, international criticism which will translate into sanctions-forever, and absolutely no change in the political map of that region.

As for the real application of chemical warfare as a cheaper/easier solution to nuclear deterrence, well I personally think it is not so, chemical weapons can be protected against and the military ability of a force prepared for NBC warfare will not be affected by margin that will translate into a military advantage for the side using chemical weapons, as for the effect on the region, yes if the chemical agents contaminate the region for a considerable period of time the economical and human damages will be great.

Not to mention that Israel might be working to find a way around the aforementioned "SA/2 and SA/5" systems, as their military success might depend on it, or that they will be willing to make the sacrifices required to protect their population from a chemical attack, and the work Israelies have done on missile defense.

And i can only imagine as to what the military level satellite intelligence is (as i do not know about it) if the google level
intelligence reveals so much. Any one care explaining?

What is the average temperature in this region during the cold season, Chemical agents do not do very well for long term effects with temperatures above 70 degrees, pretty much will make everything non persistant. ( short term effects )

 

[funtz]

What is the average temperature in this region during the cold season, Chemical agents do not do very well for long term effects with temperatures above 70 degrees, pretty much will make everything non persistant. ( short term effects )

Ya that is why the link for that article was there in my post, they did discuss all of this in detail

Due to its viscous nature, VX requires some sort of aerosolization. However, VX could be most effective in attacking an adversary's rear areas, including military installations and logistical networks such as airports and train stations. Most people whose skin comes into contact with as little as one drop of VX will die, unless they receive very swift medical intervention. Furthermore, Dr Shoham warns, that VX nerve agent would remain hazardous for at least several days, requiring labor-intensive and time-consuming decontamination procedures.

 

[eckherl]

Ya that is why the link for that article was there in my post, they did discuss all of this in detail

I wasn`t able to open the link up earlier, found the Sudan part very interesting. Lets hope that Assad realizes that all Iran is doing is pretty much using Syria as a pawn, and it is a pawn that will most easily be wiped out.

 

[funtz]

I wasn`t able to open the link up earlier, found the Sudan part very interesting. Lets hope that Assad realizes that all Iran is doing is pretty much using Syria as a pawn, and it is a pawn that will most easily be wiped out.

Interesting indeed, i just hope they see the futility of chemical warfare, the sustained resistance might just resolve the problem in the coming years (even 20-30 years is not far enough considering the history).

 

[Sgt.Banes]

What is the average temperature in this region during the cold season, Chemical agents do not do very well for long term effects with temperatures above 70 degrees, pretty much will make everything non persistant. ( short term effects )

That is true, the Chemical weapons in question do not operate for long periods of time in the desert. These weapons would be more effective in a mild continental climate like Central or Western Europe. But if Syria wanted it could give a Chemical dirty bomb to some Radical Islamic organization or Arab group to set off in a Tel Aviv or Jerusalem though it wouldn't last long. It still would be effective in killing a number of people in the area. But then again I could be wrong.

 

[Sgt.Banes]

Interesting indeed, i just hope they see the futility of chemical warfare, the sustained resistance might just resolve the problem in the coming years (even 20-30 years is not far enough considering the history).

And the fact that I'm sure the Israelis are creating some sort of plan to knock out that facility. And considering that they've taken out the Nuclear facility already, I have an idea as to what type of tactic they'd use.

 

[eckherl]

That is true, the Chemical weapons in question do not operate for long periods of time in the desert. These weapons would be more effective in a mild continental climate like Central or Western Europe. But if Syria wanted it could give a Chemical dirty bomb to some Radical Islamic organization or Arab group to set off in a Tel Aviv or Jerusalem though it wouldn't last long. It still would be effective in killing a number of people in the area. But then again I could be wrong.

Lets hope for the sake of humanity that Syria nor Iran is not that foolish, that would turn them into a target of opportunity for Israel while the rest of the world stood back and watched.

 

[Sgt.Banes]

Lets hope for the sake of humanity that Syria nor Iran is not that foolish, that would turn them into a target of opportunity for Israel while the rest of the world stood back and watched.

I smell another 1967.

 

[funtz]

And the fact that I'm sure the Israelis are creating some sort of plan to knock out that facility. And considering that they've taken out the Nuclear facility already, I have an idea as to what type of tactic they'd use.

It is interesting you mentioned that there was this article that i read

Unofficial news leaking out of Tehran's inner circles indicate that the military brass there are very dismayed at how ineffective their newly purchased Russian air defense systems were during Israels mysterious September 6th air strike on an alleged Syrian weapons development facility near the Iraqi border. According to reports, Syria took delivery last August of 10 batteries of sophisticated Russian Pantsyr-S1E air defense missile system and fire control systems with advanced radar. Same reports indicated that some of these systems were already operational by September.

Having returned without a single loss must clearly demonstrate to both Damascus and Tehran that the failure of the expensive new Russian anti-air system leaves them highly vulnerable to attack. Russian defense firms claim that Pantsyr creates an uninterrupted engagement zone of 18 to 20 km in range and of up to 10 km in altitude. Immunity to jamming is promised via multimode, multi-spectral radar and electro-optical control system. But apparently the Israelis were able to blind these systems electronically by some highly sophisticated ECM equipment. Syria isn't saying anything, nor are the Israelis, but Iranian officers are complaining openly that they have been "fooled" by the Russians.

http://www.defense-update.com/analysis/analysis_191007_airdefense.htm

Then again i am not aware of the credibility of the author or the website in defense journalism circle.

 

[Sgt.Banes]

It is interesting you mentioned that there was this article that i read

http://www.defense-update.com/analysis/analysis_191007_airdefense.htm

Then again i am not aware of the credibility of the author or the website in defense journalism circle.

Though the author is questionable, its still the basic tactical choice for the IAF. The fact that they were able to infiltrate the Syrian Military Structure at that site near the Iraqi border is one thing. But being able to slip passed modern Russian Federation AA systems is something that could be useful in this situation.

 

[radiosilence]

Lets hope that Assad realizes that all Iran is doing is pretty much using Syria as a pawn, and it is a pawn that will most easily be wiped out.

The Syrians are getting a good deal from their "strategic ally" who is funding their weapons purchase and reportedly helping them with their missile program.

 

[eckherl]

The Syrians are getting a good deal from their "strategic ally" who is funding their weapons purchase and reportedly helping them with their missile program.

Anything that Israel feels is a major threat to it`s security will be dealt with, I think Israels patience level with Syria is gone and Assad would be smart to lay low.

 

[radiosilence]

Anything that Israel feels is a major threat to it`s security will be dealt with, I think Israels patience level with Syria is gone and Assad would be smart to lay low.

I take it all the chemical and biological weapons and of course the missiles that can hit Israeli cities are not a major threat?

 

[metro]

I take it all the chemical and biological weapons and of course the missiles that can hit Israeli cities are not a major threat?

Israel is facing a potential nightmare, not only due to the chem/missiles in and around Syria, but one only needs to ask Japan about the similar threat of people wanting to "personally" carry chem/bio attacks in population centers (AKA. "The Smart WMD").

I've got to go (work ), but I'll post more later vis-a-vis, "The Raid," "David Eshel," and other posts in this thread.

Peace

 

[Sgt.Banes]

Anything that Israel feels is a major threat to it`s security will be dealt with, I think Israels patience level with Syria is gone and Assad would be smart to lay low.

I don't think Assad cares really about the volatility of the situation, actually it would give him and I guess the Muslim or Arab forces at play a political victory. So an Israeli attack on their Chemical and SCUD production facilities could bolster them even more. Not to mention this is Arab Socialist nation we're dealing with here, so regardless of the outcome of an Israeli conflict. Syria will still pursue their programs.

 

[Sgt.Banes]

Israel is facing a potential nightmare, not only due to the chem/missiles in and around Syria, but one only needs to ask Japan about the similar threat of people wanting to "personally" carry chem/bio attacks in population centers (AKA. "The Smart WMD").

I've got to go (work ), but I'll post more later vis-a-vis, "The Raid," "David Eshel," and other posts in this thread.

Peace

I'm glad you stated the terrorism factor, and not to get too political. Even though using Chemical weapons of the kind that the Syrians have wouldn't be feasible to use in a desert climate. You could still use it in a short term use within a downtown area, though the initial cloud would dissipate in short order. The damage would be done.

 

[eckherl]

I take it all the chemical and biological weapons and of course the missiles that can hit Israeli cities are not a major threat?

Yes - this can be deemed as a threat to Isreal but Israel does have the capability to counter it, this is a no win situation for Assad or his buddy in Iran.

 

[Sgt.Banes]

Yes - this can be deemed as a threat to Isreal but Israel does have the capability to counter it, this is a no win situation for Assad or his buddy in Iran.

What air defense system do the Israelis have to counter a missile attack?