Second italian Horizon class DDG launched

[European]

Today in the Fincantieri's shipyard in Riva Trigoso, Genoa, the launch of the second DDG AAW Orizzonte class. The 'Caio Duilio' (D554) for italian navy (MM):

http://www.marina.difesa.it/diario/2007/varoduilio/images/04.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/diario/2007/varoduilio/images/03.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/diario/2007/varoduilio/images/05.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/diario/2007/varoduilio/images/09.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/diario/2007/varoduilio/images/12.jpg

http://www.marina.difesa.it/diario/2007/varoduilio/images/10.jpg

The minister of defense Arturo Parisi signing the cheque :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

http://www.marina.difesa.it/diario/2007/varoduilio/images/07.jpg


Caio Duilio is the last of 4 ships of the Horizon class built by Italy and France.
The 4 ships are:


ITS Andrea Doria
ITS Caio Duilio
FS Forbin
FS Chevalier Paul

 

[Musashi_kenshin]

Caio Duilio is the last of 4 ships of the Horizon class built by Italy and France.

A four-ship class for two nations. Geez......

Anyway at least the Italian Navy has these two ships.

 

[European]

A four-ship class for two nations. Geez......

Anyway at least the Italian Navy has these two ships.

yep

I know it's not enough to escort 2 aircraft carriers (Cavour and GG) for the next decades.
May be there will be a pair of modified Fremm for AAW role in the future , but they will lack many capabilities of Horizons, has a long range 3D radar, only 32 VLS for Aster 15/30 and the SAAM-D combat system instead of PAAMS

 

[Musashi_kenshin]

I know it's not enough to escort 2 aircraft carriers (Cavour and GG) for the next decades.

It's not highly likely both would be in operation at the same time, but even two for one carrier isn't quite enough - especially if one Horizon is in the shop.

May be there will be a pair of modified Fremm for AAW role in the future , but they will lack many capabilities of Horizons.....

Indeed. Why was the project scaled back so much - did costs increase that much, or did the Italian government never plan to buy more than two?

I guess the Royal Navy should be glad it is getting a minimum of six Type 45 destroyers, with maybe another two. They might not do much flag-waving and just sit around waiting for an emergency, but at least we won't need to call another country to get back-up if we want to deploy a task-force.

 

[European]

Indeed. Why was the project scaled back so much - did costs increase that much, or did the Italian government never plan to buy more than two?

Italy wanted 4 Horizons, but due to lack of €€€ the number has been cut at 2.

 

[AegisFC]

It sure is a good looking ship, too bad they aren't building anymore.

 

[riksavage]

Looking on the bright side with 4 x horizons and 6-8 T45's supporting European Naval operations have a major capability leap when benchmarked against potential foes - Russia for example.

 

[Waylander]

And they are not the only AA ships in europe...

There are other Spanish, Dutch and German designs in service.

While ASW capabilities are declining AA is on the rise in eruope.

 

[European]

And they are not the only AA ships in europe...

There are other Spanish, Dutch and German designs in service.

While ASW capabilities are declining AA is on the rise in eruope.

For the last generation AAW in the next future in EU there will be:

6-8 Type45 (Uk)
2+2 Horizons (Italy+France)
6 F-100 Alvaro de Bazan class(Spain)
3 De Zeven Provincien Class (Netherland)
4 F-124 Sachsen class(Germany)

Not bad....

 

[Grand Danois]

For the last generation AAW in the next future in EU there will be:

6-8 Type45 (Uk)
2+2 Horizons (Italy+France)
6 F-100 Alvaro de Bazan class(Spain)
3 De Zeven Provincien Class (Netherland)
4 F-124 Sachsen class(Germany)

Not bad....

It is 4 DZP and 3 Sachsen.

Plus 3 x Danish "Patrol Ships".

 

[KiwiRob]

and the 5 Norwegian Nansens which are sort of cut down F-100's they have Aegis so they are quite impressive.

 

[Musashi_kenshin]

The problem with the idea of a "European navy" is that it would be near impossible to get many countries to agree to a common policy. Short of a full war with Europe which is hardly likely, we wouldn't see much direct co-operation.

If you think about it the most likely need for a large naval deployment where ships might need to fire their weapons in anger would be another Falklands War - would other European countries help the Royal Navy even if it needed it? I doubt it.

Unfortunately far too many European states are inward-looking and unwilling to risk their servicemen and women fighting in support of another party. The low priority put on defence spending across so many countries in the region is an example of this. We can't think about real defence co-operation until we get the average percentage of GDP spent on the military above 2%.

 

[harryriedl]

The problem with the idea of a "European navy" is that it would be near impossible to get many countries to agree to a common policy. Short of a full war with Europe which is hardly likely, we wouldn't see much direct co-operation.

If you think about it the most likely need for a large naval deployment where ships might need to fire their weapons in anger would be another Falklands War - would other European countries help the Royal Navy even if it needed it? I doubt it.

Unfortunately far too many European states are inward-looking and unwilling to risk their servicemen and women fighting in support of another party. The low priority put on defence spending across so many countries in the region is an example of this. We can't think about real defence co-operation until we get the average percentage of GDP spent on the military above 2%.

sadly i agree although joint ops like OEF and low risk ops can be spread thought EU nations.

although a EU style Falklands ops when pigs fly:hitwall

 

[kato]

Umm, everyone forgetting Kosovo, '99, here?

From the EU, this involved forces from at least UK, France, Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Spain, Italy; other Allies in the NATO op were USA, Canada and Turkey.

And yes, that war had a naval component.

 

[harryriedl]

Umm, everyone forgetting Kosovo, '99, here?

From the EU, this involved forces from at least UK, France, Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Spain, Italy; other Allies in the NATO op were USA, Canada and Turkey.

And yes, that war had a naval component.

did the Italy use GG
yes Kosovo was remarkable but it was in Europe. what about further afield?

 

[Musashi_kenshin]

And yes, that war had a naval component.

Really, what naval forces did the enemy have?

It's very easy to deploy ships to your own backyard when there's almost no threat to them. It's quite another when they're going to be overseas in the thick of the fighting.

 

[Izzy1]

Really, what naval forces did the enemy have?

It's very easy to deploy ships to your own backyard when there's almost no threat to them. It's quite another when they're going to be overseas in the thick of the fighting.

Here, here.

 

[kato]

did the Italy use GG

• EU Carriers: FS Foch, HMS Invincible
• EU Destroyers: 1 CF Adams, 1 Type 42, 1 Georges Leygues, 1 Tourville
• EU Frigates: 4 Type 23, 2 F122/Standard, 1 F80, 1 Maestrale, 1 LaFayette
• EU MCM Units: total 13 MCM vessels for postwar EOD
• Other major ships: 4 SSN (2 French, 2 British), RFA Argus, 1 RoRo, 1 Sir Lancelot LPD

There wasn't really any need for aircraft carriers; after all, Tornados and F16 could perfectly well sortie from Southern Italy. Super Etendards from FS Foch however did perform about 500 strike missions in Yugoslavia.

The majority of the Italian Navy, iirc, was busy patrolling the coast against Albanian boat people at the time.

 

[Grand Danois]

did the Italy use GG
yes Kosovo was remarkable but it was in Europe. what about further afield?

SNMG1 has just been a on a tour around Africa

http://www.manw.nato.int/pdf/6938 Africa proof final.pdf

Standing NATO Maritime Group 1 In Theater This Week

USS Bainbridge (DDG 96)
HNLMS Evertsen (F805)
HMCS Toronto (FFH 333)
NRP Alvares Cabral (F331)
HDMS Olfert Fischer (F355)
FGS Spessart (A1442)

http://informationdissemination.blogspot.com/2007_09_01_archive.html

SNMG1 has now returned to home waters.

And currently:

However, what also caught my attention on Saturday is that Standing NATO Maritime Group 2 (SNMG2) crossed the Suez Canal on Saturday as well.

Standing NATO Maritime Group 2 (SNMG2)

TCG Orucreis (F245)
HMS Northumberland (F238)
NMM Aliseo (F574)
HS Aegeon (F460)
SPS Canarias (F86)
FGS Rhoen (A1443)
USS Laboon (DDG 58)

From Galrahns blog: http://informationdissemination.blogspot.com/

And also off the Horn of Africa/Indian Ocean:

Task Force 150

FGS Augsburg (F 213)
FS Commandant Blaison (F793)
FS Dupleix (D 641)
PNS Tippu Sultan (D 185)
USS Carter Hall (LSD 50)

http://informationdissemination.blogspot.com/2007_09_01_archive.html

Task Forces 150/152/158
http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/server/show/nav.6006


IIRC, the first EU reaction force CBG should go online somewhere in 2008-09. But so far I've only seen this in policy documents.

Lastly, if the Antilles or the Falklands where to be attacked, I can easily see the European nations stumbling over each other to contribute to a task force as a show of EU unity. It would be a very powerful symbol.

 

[European]

• EU Carriers: FS Foch, HMS Invincible
• EU Destroyers: 1 CF Adams, 1 Type 42, 1 Georges Leygues, 1 Tourville
• EU Frigates: 4 Type 23, 2 F122/Standard, 1 F80, 1 Maestrale, 1 LaFayette
• EU MCM Units: total 13 MCM vessels for postwar EOD
• Other major ships: 4 SSN (2 French, 2 British), RFA Argus, 1 RoRo, 1 Sir Lancelot LPD

There wasn't really any need for aircraft carriers; after all, Tornados and F16 could perfectly well sortie from Southern Italy. Super Etendards from FS Foch however did perform about 500 strike missions in Yugoslavia.

The majority of the Italian Navy, iirc, was busy patrolling the coast against Albanian boat people at the time.

Not exactly,
there were also the aircraft carrier Garibaldi and the former flagship of the italian fleet, the Vittorio Veneto at its last operation.
There was also the spanish carrier PdA, but no operations of strike were officially did.