New Zealand Army
- Thread starter Whiskyjack
- Start date
-
- Tags
- army artilery gunner new zealand sas
Investigator
New Member
Comments deleted.
Last edited:
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
Thanks for the info and link. I will have to see if a version is available in the US, no luck so far.
Out of curiousity, I saw at the bottom some info on the Counter Terrorism Tactical Assault Group (CTTAG) which is part of the NZSAS but but not considered SAS, having completed an abbreviated course. In some respects, it sounds like TAG and TAG-E in Australia. What I was wondering was if NZSAS personnel who have completed the "full" SAS course are ever cross-posted to CTTAG, assuming of course that is publically known.
-Cheers
stryker NZ
New Member
i dont think they cross post (it would kind of seem like a step backwards) i know SAS members are in charge of CTTAG operations. From what i can gather from the released info CTTAG is a support unit (like the SAS's other support staff) designed to take some of the load off the rest of the unit
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
I would be absolutely stunned if they didn't, due to the high level of Close Quarter Battle and sniper training that CT operators undertake. As should be obvious, such high levels of close combat training has applicability in other areas which are traditional SAS specialties...
They would be about the only special forces unit in the Western world that DOESN'T...
I have my fingers tightly crossed that the NZDF will realise the publicity potential they have, and consider similar doco's for other areas of the military. I for one would love to get a backstage pass into the day to day operations of our Defence Force. It would be a huge boost to recruitment without a doubt!
Am currently reading this book called "SAS Secret Wars In South-East Asia".
It is written by Peter Dickens - a great grandson of Charles Dickens.
Inspite of his military service in the Navy - and being awarded for bravery the DSO, DSC and MBE in WW - Peter writes in a long-winded roundabout way.
And the language can be quite thick for a military book.
...
All due respects to the SAS skills, sacrifice and bravery - especially those who died for us or suffered injuries.
This book gives a very detailed account of what the SAS did during the Confrontation in Borneo.
But for those looking for a bit more action in a book... this book is not it.
The missions undertaken by the SAS in Borneo was mostly recce and only occasionally permission was given to attack. Or if they are detected and have to fight for their lives.
So 90% of the time the book was recounting patrols - trouble with the radio, being dettected by locals, tracking subtleties etc. The book can get a bit erm... boring for long stretches.
...
The SAS in Borneo patrolled in 4-men teams, and apparently carried only 3 20-round mags including the one in the weapon. Their main load is rations and other equipment for recce purpose.
Yes, it gave a very accurate account of SAS ops, but if you're a combat action junkie like me, there's very little of it in this book.
I don't want a sensationalised account, of course. Else I'll read Tom Clancy. But there's a lot more action if you read about the Gurkhas in Borneo, for example, as they did most of the infantry fighting.
It is written by Peter Dickens - a great grandson of Charles Dickens.
Inspite of his military service in the Navy - and being awarded for bravery the DSO, DSC and MBE in WW - Peter writes in a long-winded roundabout way.
And the language can be quite thick for a military book.
...
All due respects to the SAS skills, sacrifice and bravery - especially those who died for us or suffered injuries.
This book gives a very detailed account of what the SAS did during the Confrontation in Borneo.
But for those looking for a bit more action in a book... this book is not it.
The missions undertaken by the SAS in Borneo was mostly recce and only occasionally permission was given to attack. Or if they are detected and have to fight for their lives.
So 90% of the time the book was recounting patrols - trouble with the radio, being dettected by locals, tracking subtleties etc. The book can get a bit erm... boring for long stretches.
...
The SAS in Borneo patrolled in 4-men teams, and apparently carried only 3 20-round mags including the one in the weapon. Their main load is rations and other equipment for recce purpose.
Yes, it gave a very accurate account of SAS ops, but if you're a combat action junkie like me, there's very little of it in this book.
I don't want a sensationalised account, of course. Else I'll read Tom Clancy. But there's a lot more action if you read about the Gurkhas in Borneo, for example, as they did most of the infantry fighting.
I'm 2/3 of the way through and mostly this book talked about British SAS. There was mention of one Aussie attached to one of the patrols.
Did the NZSAS take part in Controntation?
I'm not sure, you'll have to find someone with a more through understanding of SAS history. I for one, am not that someone 
If you're genuinely interested in the NZSAS, might be interested in checking out the 'NZSAS: First Among Equals' TV documentary on DVD......provided you haven't seen it! It's one of the better sources of information on current NZSAS training, operations etc
If you're genuinely interested in the NZSAS, might be interested in checking out the 'NZSAS: First Among Equals' TV documentary on DVD......provided you haven't seen it! It's one of the better sources of information on current NZSAS training, operations etc
Last edited by a moderator:
The following article appeared in the Times providing a detailed overview of UKSF activity in Baghdad. I understand the Kiwi SAS are working closely with their UK counterparts, so one would assume their experiences, set-up and exposure to danger is the same. I know the UK has divided up the current theatre of operations with Afghanistan coming under largely SPS control and Iraq under largely SAS control. Orbat in the latter as follows:
THE usual number of UK special forces in Baghdad is close to 400 men: a single 60-man SAS “sabre” squadron; a company of paratroopers, Royal Marine commandos and RAF Regiment personnel from the Special Forces Support Group; a squadron from the Special Reconnaissance Regiment; and a squadron of radio monitoring experts from 18 (UKSF) Signal Regiment. They also have specialist signallers from 264 (SAS) Signal Squadron, specially fitted-out RAF Chinook helicopters from 7 Squadron and C-130 Hercules transport aircraft from 47
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2461368.ece
THE usual number of UK special forces in Baghdad is close to 400 men: a single 60-man SAS “sabre” squadron; a company of paratroopers, Royal Marine commandos and RAF Regiment personnel from the Special Forces Support Group; a squadron from the Special Reconnaissance Regiment; and a squadron of radio monitoring experts from 18 (UKSF) Signal Regiment. They also have specialist signallers from 264 (SAS) Signal Squadron, specially fitted-out RAF Chinook helicopters from 7 Squadron and C-130 Hercules transport aircraft from 47
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2461368.ece
I've not seen the video.I'm not sure, you'll have to find someone with a more through understanding of SAS history. I for one, am not that someone
If you're genuinely interested in the NZSAS, might be interested in checking out the 'NZSAS: First Among Equals' TV documentary on DVD......provided you haven't seen it! It's one of the better sources of information on current NZSAS training, operations etc
But I am more interested in infantry stuff - where I was from - and less in spec ops.
But the SAS book did talk in some detail about jungle tracking/survival stuff which is very interesting.
One incident recounted how the SAS did something to make their boot prints look just like Indonesian ones. If I remember correctly they glued or stitched Indon soles to their boots or something.But to a seasoned forest tracker wouldn't he be curious at the larger-sized and heavier-than-usual "Indonesian" footprints?
And often, even the SAS get defeated by swamps and had to turn back.
Ozzy Blizzard
New Member
Boy's i know this is old news and you have probably allready discussed this at length but i just wanted to pay my respects to the NZSAS dig who won the VC in afghanistan resently. Truely he, and the NZDF has my deepest respect.
recce.k1
Well-Known Member
Preparing for the Cambrian Patrol exercises in the UK later this month
Some news of interest for those following the NZ Army.
http://stuff.co.nz/4227001a6502.html
Troops put to the test
By CHRISTIAN BONNEVIE - Manawatu Standard | Friday, 5 October 2007
Two teams of Linton soldiers were put through their paces across the Tararua Ranges this week in preparation for a trip to Wales where their endurance will be tested on the international stage.
The two units, one from Victor Company and the other Engineers, head to Britain on October 22 to compete in the Cambrian Patrol exercise.
Recognised internationally as one of the toughest patrolling tests available to modern soldiers, the exercise requires units to complete a series of rigorous tasks over a sleepless 48-hour period.
The two Linton units earned their selection for the competition after finishing top in the local Skill at Arms exercise in Santoft Forest in August.
It is second time lucky for the Victor Company unit, who won the title last year - and defended it - only to miss out on the Wales trip after being deployed to East Timor.
Taking a quick break midway through the 16km Tararua hill climb yesterday, unit leader Second Lieutenant Tim O'Donnell kindly offered to let the Manawatu Standard carry his pack and gun so as to get a taste of life on the trail.
"This stuff is the bread and butter of infantry. The weight is not that bad. We're pretty used to patrolling with our packs, but it's a bit foreign to the engineer boys," he said.
His comments proved quite accurate, with Victor Company finishing the trek well ahead of their comrades in just under three hours.
Lt O'Donnell said his unit was looking forward to testing their mettle against international units from across Britain, Europe and Canada. "For most of the boys this will be their first trip to the UK and they're looking forward to representing New Zealand. It's going to be tough, but it'll be good. We might even find time for some beer-tasting."
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
Good to see the kiwis still have their priorities right after the Cambrian Patrol exercise - sampling the local brew
Some news of interest for those following the NZ Army.
http://stuff.co.nz/4227001a6502.html
Troops put to the test
By CHRISTIAN BONNEVIE - Manawatu Standard | Friday, 5 October 2007
Two teams of Linton soldiers were put through their paces across the Tararua Ranges this week in preparation for a trip to Wales where their endurance will be tested on the international stage.
The two units, one from Victor Company and the other Engineers, head to Britain on October 22 to compete in the Cambrian Patrol exercise.
Recognised internationally as one of the toughest patrolling tests available to modern soldiers, the exercise requires units to complete a series of rigorous tasks over a sleepless 48-hour period.
The two Linton units earned their selection for the competition after finishing top in the local Skill at Arms exercise in Santoft Forest in August.
It is second time lucky for the Victor Company unit, who won the title last year - and defended it - only to miss out on the Wales trip after being deployed to East Timor.
Taking a quick break midway through the 16km Tararua hill climb yesterday, unit leader Second Lieutenant Tim O'Donnell kindly offered to let the Manawatu Standard carry his pack and gun so as to get a taste of life on the trail.
"This stuff is the bread and butter of infantry. The weight is not that bad. We're pretty used to patrolling with our packs, but it's a bit foreign to the engineer boys," he said.
His comments proved quite accurate, with Victor Company finishing the trek well ahead of their comrades in just under three hours.
Lt O'Donnell said his unit was looking forward to testing their mettle against international units from across Britain, Europe and Canada. "For most of the boys this will be their first trip to the UK and they're looking forward to representing New Zealand. It's going to be tough, but it'll be good. We might even find time for some beer-tasting."
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
Good to see the kiwis still have their priorities right after the Cambrian Patrol exercise - sampling the local brew
Last edited:
Good to see the Kiwi’s taking part, I’m sure they will excel.
Hope the weather doesn’t take a turn for the worse, horizontal driving rain is pretty common in them there Brecon hills, which makes life a real misery!!
At least the beer will be warm and the sheep welcoming
Hope the weather doesn’t take a turn for the worse, horizontal driving rain is pretty common in them there Brecon hills, which makes life a real misery!!
At least the beer will be warm and the sheep welcoming
recce.k1
Well-Known Member
Yes NZDF numbers are to increase by 1500-2000. Additional govt funding is being provided to ensure units are up to strength and to operate new equipment and introduce new trades etc. This is a several year project. Details at http://www.defence.govt.nz/reports-publications/dsi-2005/contents.html
http://www.defence.govt.nz/reports-publications/dsi-2005/questions-answers.html
recce.k1
Well-Known Member
Cambrian Patrol
http://www.nzdf.mil.nz/news/media-releases/200711014-nzpwmitbe.htm
NZ Patrols win medals in tough British event
14 November 2007
Two New Zealand Army patrols have been awarded Bronze Medals recognising their achievements in what is seen by many as one of the most challenging events in the British Army training calendar.
The New Zealanders were part of 71 patrols, including 14 international teams, participating in the Cambrian Patrol held in Wales last month.
The annual exercise is designed to test the mental and physical robustness of those taking part whilst remaining within the capabilities of any well led, well trained team regardless of their role or Service.
It is viewed as "the premier patrolling event facing the modern soldier".
The exercise is conducted over vast distances carrying very heavy loads of equipment and see's the patrols navigating over difficult terrain by day and night completing Military tasks along their patrol route.
17 Patrols were forced to withdraw during the Exercise.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
The Aussies from 10 Light Horse (Australia) also did well and won a bronze award. http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx?MenuID=77&ContentID=46864
'ere, wots this? No patrol to be held in 2008? Why - cutbacks? British Army fully stretched etc??? http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2007-11-13a.162149.h&s=speaker:10521#g162149.q0
It's ok RikSavage, we'll leave the sheep well alone (we don't want to get foot and mouth) but instead the ANZAC's will happily sample the local brew, maybe try and drink the pubs dry and test our antipodean charm on the local lasses
http://www.nzdf.mil.nz/news/media-releases/200711014-nzpwmitbe.htm
NZ Patrols win medals in tough British event
14 November 2007
Two New Zealand Army patrols have been awarded Bronze Medals recognising their achievements in what is seen by many as one of the most challenging events in the British Army training calendar.
The New Zealanders were part of 71 patrols, including 14 international teams, participating in the Cambrian Patrol held in Wales last month.
The annual exercise is designed to test the mental and physical robustness of those taking part whilst remaining within the capabilities of any well led, well trained team regardless of their role or Service.
It is viewed as "the premier patrolling event facing the modern soldier".
The exercise is conducted over vast distances carrying very heavy loads of equipment and see's the patrols navigating over difficult terrain by day and night completing Military tasks along their patrol route.
17 Patrols were forced to withdraw during the Exercise.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
The Aussies from 10 Light Horse (Australia) also did well and won a bronze award. http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx?MenuID=77&ContentID=46864
'ere, wots this? No patrol to be held in 2008? Why - cutbacks? British Army fully stretched etc??? http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2007-11-13a.162149.h&s=speaker:10521#g162149.q0
It's ok RikSavage, we'll leave the sheep well alone (we don't want to get foot and mouth) but instead the ANZAC's will happily sample the local brew, maybe try and drink the pubs dry and test our antipodean charm on the local lasses
recce.k1
Well-Known Member
Weapon revamp underway
NZ Army News - issue 383
A NZDF-wide programme has been initiated to upgrade, replace, or introduce into service ten weapon systems. The most significant components are the
proposed upgrade of the IW Steyr, and replacement of the Light Support Weapon.
Other weapon systems that will be part of the programme are; tactical shotguns, marksman weapons, sniper rifles, SFMG tripod and target acquisition systems, anti-material weapons, pistols, Carl Gustafs and M203s.
The scope of this programme will form a major part of the NZDF's ongoing modemisation programme. The objectives of the programme are to address in-service weapon capability gaps from less-lethal to lethal effects, with a particular focus on:
Ammunition - lethal, less lethal and simulation munitions.
Small arms surveillance and target acquisition systems.
Enhancing personal protection.
Enhancing the accuracy of direct fire engagements.
Providing the capabilities to support the enhancement of marksmanship skills across the NZDF.
It is planned for the prqgramme to be complete by 2014, with the IW Steyr upgrade to begin next year and finish in 2011.
The decision to enhance the IW Steyr weapon, rather than replace it, was based on a number of factors. These include the sound condition of the current Steyr fleet, the Steyr being at least the equivalent of comparable replacement options from a ballistic performance perspective, while the cost of a replacement system is considerably higher than upgrading options. Also, if the NZDF was to replace the Steyr, it would commit the NZDF to a weapon system that may be surpassed by technological advances in the near future. The decision to upgrade is consistent with developments overseas.
The upgrade of the Steyr will focus on enhancing the modularity of the weapon so it can accept a wider range of sighting systems and ancillary options such as white light and aiming devices. Only a proportion of the Steyr fleet will be upgraded.
The most urgent of the 10 projects is the replacement of the LSW. The LSW is nearing the end of its economic life and a replacement programme for this weapon will begin next year and finish in 2010.
A range of weapon optics, ancilliary items and ammunition is currently been acquired for a test and evaluation phase to inform the programme. This work will be conducted by the Small Arms Wing at the Combat School in Waiouru in conjunction with the Defence Technology Agency.
Information briefs are underway at all the major bases and camps to provide staff with more detail surrounding the programme. Further updates will also be provided in single Service newspapers and magazines as the programme progresses.
NZ Army News - issue 383
A NZDF-wide programme has been initiated to upgrade, replace, or introduce into service ten weapon systems. The most significant components are the
proposed upgrade of the IW Steyr, and replacement of the Light Support Weapon.
Other weapon systems that will be part of the programme are; tactical shotguns, marksman weapons, sniper rifles, SFMG tripod and target acquisition systems, anti-material weapons, pistols, Carl Gustafs and M203s.
The scope of this programme will form a major part of the NZDF's ongoing modemisation programme. The objectives of the programme are to address in-service weapon capability gaps from less-lethal to lethal effects, with a particular focus on:
Ammunition - lethal, less lethal and simulation munitions.
Small arms surveillance and target acquisition systems.
Enhancing personal protection.
Enhancing the accuracy of direct fire engagements.
Providing the capabilities to support the enhancement of marksmanship skills across the NZDF.
It is planned for the prqgramme to be complete by 2014, with the IW Steyr upgrade to begin next year and finish in 2011.
The decision to enhance the IW Steyr weapon, rather than replace it, was based on a number of factors. These include the sound condition of the current Steyr fleet, the Steyr being at least the equivalent of comparable replacement options from a ballistic performance perspective, while the cost of a replacement system is considerably higher than upgrading options. Also, if the NZDF was to replace the Steyr, it would commit the NZDF to a weapon system that may be surpassed by technological advances in the near future. The decision to upgrade is consistent with developments overseas.
The upgrade of the Steyr will focus on enhancing the modularity of the weapon so it can accept a wider range of sighting systems and ancillary options such as white light and aiming devices. Only a proportion of the Steyr fleet will be upgraded.
The most urgent of the 10 projects is the replacement of the LSW. The LSW is nearing the end of its economic life and a replacement programme for this weapon will begin next year and finish in 2010.
A range of weapon optics, ancilliary items and ammunition is currently been acquired for a test and evaluation phase to inform the programme. This work will be conducted by the Small Arms Wing at the Combat School in Waiouru in conjunction with the Defence Technology Agency.
Information briefs are underway at all the major bases and camps to provide staff with more detail surrounding the programme. Further updates will also be provided in single Service newspapers and magazines as the programme progresses.
Last edited:
NZ Army News - issue 383
Hi all, first time well here goes yes have been to the brief in regards to the upgrade of the IW steyr & other weapons,
First these are the priorities;
1 Steyr upgrade,
2 LSW C9 replacement,
3 Tactical shotgun &,
4 Section markman weapon. By enhancing existing capabilities address capability gaps procure new ancillary equipment & specialist munitions, as the brief stated the Steyr is a closed architecture weapon the main point is a new upper receiver group with a 1913 picatinny rail configuration direct from Steyr in Austria to fit new sights.
Trials in the first half next year at the Combat School will confirm either ACOG, Spectre or a 3 x power sight yet to be determined, a heaver grain 5.56mm ammunition & consider suppression (Infantry weapons only) intergration of simulation training options.
The two RF Infantry Battalions will test the concept of a 7.62mm rifle in the section next year for the section markman wpn - at this stage the L1A1 SLR will be used to test the concept against the EIW Steyr with the LMG barrel, heavy grain 5.56mm,
The LSW C9 will not be upgraded it is being replaced by a system that will be capable of taking new day/night optics, aiming devices & ancillaries enhance lethality at longer ranges (new sights) enhance lethality (consider new calibre) again consider suppression & intergration of simulation option currently only 1 new system is in country 7.62mm LSW.
Tactical shotgun will be used by the Infantry only for the following graduated response- less lethal - lethal, CQB & method of entry current weapon is the Benelli M3A1(NZ) trial will confirm NZDF requirements, slection & configurations to meet all three services,
Marksman Weapon required to complement 5.56mm ballistic performance, marksmanship at longer ranges & sinper No2 weapon could be new or enhanced steyr with 4-12x optic, 24hr, semi automatic posible increase in calibre.
These four requirements are linked to Soldier modernisation, NVE & Special Ops projects they also link into ADF:Land 125 & ABCA countries. As a Infantry soldier I cant wait to get my hands on the upgraded EIW Steyr & new LSW, marksman wpn & shotgun in the sections/Platoons/& Companys we in the Battalions will finally have a weapon system (mainly new sights & ancillarys) that will enable us to reach out & touch somebody but most of all our weapons will be different to the Combat Spt & Combat Services Spt pers, maybe just maybe it will stop my guys getting out. Last point the trial team has asked Steyr to produce the weapon so the barrel is fixed to the receiver instead of being able to come off independantly.
Hi all, first time well here goes yes have been to the brief in regards to the upgrade of the IW steyr & other weapons,
First these are the priorities;
1 Steyr upgrade,
2 LSW C9 replacement,
3 Tactical shotgun &,
4 Section markman weapon. By enhancing existing capabilities address capability gaps procure new ancillary equipment & specialist munitions, as the brief stated the Steyr is a closed architecture weapon the main point is a new upper receiver group with a 1913 picatinny rail configuration direct from Steyr in Austria to fit new sights.
Trials in the first half next year at the Combat School will confirm either ACOG, Spectre or a 3 x power sight yet to be determined, a heaver grain 5.56mm ammunition & consider suppression (Infantry weapons only) intergration of simulation training options.
The two RF Infantry Battalions will test the concept of a 7.62mm rifle in the section next year for the section markman wpn - at this stage the L1A1 SLR will be used to test the concept against the EIW Steyr with the LMG barrel, heavy grain 5.56mm,
The LSW C9 will not be upgraded it is being replaced by a system that will be capable of taking new day/night optics, aiming devices & ancillaries enhance lethality at longer ranges (new sights) enhance lethality (consider new calibre) again consider suppression & intergration of simulation option currently only 1 new system is in country 7.62mm LSW.
Tactical shotgun will be used by the Infantry only for the following graduated response- less lethal - lethal, CQB & method of entry current weapon is the Benelli M3A1(NZ) trial will confirm NZDF requirements, slection & configurations to meet all three services,
Marksman Weapon required to complement 5.56mm ballistic performance, marksmanship at longer ranges & sinper No2 weapon could be new or enhanced steyr with 4-12x optic, 24hr, semi automatic posible increase in calibre.
These four requirements are linked to Soldier modernisation, NVE & Special Ops projects they also link into ADF:Land 125 & ABCA countries. As a Infantry soldier I cant wait to get my hands on the upgraded EIW Steyr & new LSW, marksman wpn & shotgun in the sections/Platoons/& Companys we in the Battalions will finally have a weapon system (mainly new sights & ancillarys) that will enable us to reach out & touch somebody but most of all our weapons will be different to the Combat Spt & Combat Services Spt pers, maybe just maybe it will stop my guys getting out. Last point the trial team has asked Steyr to produce the weapon so the barrel is fixed to the receiver instead of being able to come off independantly.